SonofaRoache

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Ugh. Generally, the Sox haven't picked that high. The Sox currently hold some of the best assets in baseball (Sale, Quintana, Eaton) and to a lesser extent (Abreu, Jones, Rodon) due to drafting (Sale, Jones, Rodon), great trades (Eaton) and great signings (Quintana and Abreu). The Sox problems have been filling out the back end of the roster over hte past 8 or so years. Don't get me wrong, the Sox got nothing out of the draft for a long time. Just seems like a weird time to get your panties all in a bunch over the draft. There is obvious improvement there over the past handful of years. Sure, there are still busts (Walker and Barnum included), but every team has those. I agree with everything you said which is why I don't want a full rebuild. We have assets but need to fill the roster out more strategically. Well I was asked a question and answered it so my panties are in no bunch. It was asked why I didn't trust a rebuild and one of the reasons is I don't trust our FO to consistently make good moves and draft good players. This is why I believe the rebuild will fail too as we'd have to trade the assets you named and start from scratch.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) I'd like to see the 1st round picks of the Cardinals or Cubs over the past decade. And I know those are strong examples. If not them, maybe throw in an Orioles or Tigers. Kind of middling teams. I wonder how much better or worse their first round picks are.. The Cubs are a bad example because they were horrible at drafting and horrible results followed. They won a world series because they drafted Bryant and Schwarber. They also made up for their stupidity by hiring Epstein and Maddon two guys who know what they are doing. The Cardinals drafting sucks but they find ways to be in the World Series conversation every year. If the Sox were in the World Series conversation almost every year I wouldn't care about their drafting as much. Because clearly they would be finding ways to get talent on the roster.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) Exactly. Buuuuuuut the Cardinals do other things well as an organization which keeps them competitive year in and year out. The reason the draft hurts our Sox is because we pick high and draft busts. We hit on a few pitchers but since we suck at trading, FA signings, hiring managers etc we need one thing to hang our hats on.

QUOTE (Tony @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) The draft is just part of the problem. You can look at what other teams have drafted and look at their 1st round picks and success rate, but that's like trying to diagnose an unknown illness and only looking at 1/3 of the persons body. There is much more to the story. Simply put, the Sox have done an incredibly poor job of identifying talent. In the draft, in trades and in free agent signings. You can create all the lists you want, go nuts. The only list you need to look at is playoff appearances the last 15 years. That gives you the clearest diagnoses there is. Well the draft wouldn't be a big problem if our FO didn't suck at signing FA's for the most part and making horrible trades. If you do the latter you better at least draft well. But this all ties into the rebuild everyone wants because it is trying something different. The fact is this organization has given me zero reason to believe they can rebuild based off trades and the draft.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 10:03 AM) Starting with Chris Sale, the Sox have improved immensely with drafting, including their first round picks. Walker was taken 47th overall, and Barnum 48th, which were sandwich round picks and not first rounders in the traditional sense. Missing picks in the back end of the top 50 isn't exactly something unique to the White Sox. Three of the guys you bolded are pitchers which is fine. But two of them have not proven themselves. Tim Anderson is a nice pick but unproven so we will see on them. I agree it has gotten better but they need some serious offensive production out of top draftees. And yes the FO is accountable for the 47th and 48th pick not working out even if other teams fail. One of those guys was the 7th rated prospect in our farm and can't hit .260 in the minors.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:55 AM) Depends on what you define as a 1st round pick: Drafted by the Chicago White Sox in the 1st round (48th) of the 2012 MLB June Amateur Draft from King HS (Tampa, FL). Point is they were our first picks and were bad ones like the rest for the most part. That is really the point I'm making. This is why I have no faith in a rebuild as was asked.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) Walker and Barnum were not first round picks FWIW. They both were top picks for us who gave absolutely nothing to the organization. Top prospects in our organization who can't hack it in the minors.

QUOTE (Tony @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 01:21 AM) The argument here of course is that the Sox have been awful at identifying, drafting and developing talent, so going the full rebuild route is a bad one. They lucked into a 2005 World Championship by having a mix of younger and veteran players, so that is route they should go. Basically, the Sox don't have the talent evaluators capable of conducting a rebuild, so it would be a waste of time. This organization is in a BAD place. Well that's a point I've been making. I don't trust our FO moving in any direction. We've tried to rebuild and get younger but we suck at drafting players and trading for young ones. Maybe if we did a better job identifying pieces that fit and would work we'd be okay. We've blown way to many draft picks. First round picks since 2005 Lance Broadway Kyle McCulloch Aaron Poreda Gordan Beckham Jared Mitchell Josh Phegley Chris Sale Keenyn Walker Courtney Hawkins Keon Barnum Tim Anderson Carlos Rodon Carson Fulmer A few years prior Gio Gonzalez Tyler Lumsden Josh Fields Brian Anderson Royce Ring Kris Honel Folks this is why we suck. We hit on one, maybe 2 pitchers so far and Gio brought value in a trade. We screwed up with all but one position player thus far and he may just be mediocre. If your FO can't draft or find solid players to trade and sign into the organization you are screwed whether you rebuild or retool.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 11:58 PM) I really wish I can understand the mindset of the anti-rebuild crowd. To put yourself in the position that you wouldn't want a rebuild because it hasn't worked for other teams.......meanwhile accepting what the team has unsuccessfully tried to do since 2008. The Sox are not going to go into full rebuild mode because the Cubs are bad for their business. If your competitor is at the top you don't fold and give your customers away for 3 or 4 years and then hope to bounce back with new product. The time for the full rebuild was when Robin choked that first year. Also this team has brought in tons of youth that has failed miserably when we thought they would be good players. So this full rebuild idea getting pimped around like it is fail proof isn't likely to build a consistent winner. These are just a few of the guys off the top of my head that were young and we thought would be cornerstones just a few years ago. Gordan Beckham Jordan Danks Jared Mitchell Tyler Flowers Dayan Viciedo Brent Morel Avi Garcia Micah Johnson Both methods are dangerous routes to take but we do know we got a title winning with vets and some young guys.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 09:07 PM) Tweaks? Did you watch this team last year? They have massive holes to fill and limited options and resources to fill them. This idea we're always a couple of moves away from competing is what's gotten us into this mess. Right now, our organization is a Chris Sale injury away from being completely f***ed. I've never been a pro-rebuild guy, but we really have no alternatives at this time. Eaton, Melky, Anderson, Lawrie, Abreu, and Frazier has enough talent to get a team to postseason play. Sale, Q, Rodon, Shields have enough talent to do it as does our closer We need to fix CF, DH, and C to compete for the playoffs. We also need a competent manager since Robin was one of the worst in baseball.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 08:55 PM) I dunno...it helps when you have the assets to move which basically allow you to ask for other teams' top prospects. It isn't like they would be going into this cold. Chris Sale is the only player we have that will net top prospects. We will get solid ones for Q and everyone else will yield back trash.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 08:58 PM) You still haven't answered the question? Does this mean you're up for another go-round of free agent signings? Just to be clear I would love to see them go young but I don't think they can at this particular time. They can trade Sale but they must still remain somewhat relevant.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 08:38 PM) So what other option do you see? You haven't rejected the statement/lesson of the last 2 seasons - that this team has no where near the talent that the other teams in this division have and are in 4th place for a reason - so where do they go next offseason when Frazier, Cabrera hit FA and they've stumbled into a 3rd/4th place finish again? Well the Sox won a world series doing it this way. The reality is they cannot afford a rebuild at this time. They can trade sale for some talent but a full rebuild would destroy their finances as I said before. Fans will not watch or go to the ball park to see 4 years of rebuilding baseball. It just wont happen. And with the Cubs being a great championship team non die hard fans will just watch them instead. If they make some tweaks they can compete for a wild card. With two wild cards most competent teams will be interesting for a season. We blew a lot of games this year we should have won and with 3 top flight starters we will be in a lot of games. And if we could sneak into the playoffs Sale, Q, Rodon would be just as good as what Cleveland trots out there. Odds are low they will win it all but odds are also low of them winning it all after a rebuild.

We went the youth route a few times and that failed miserably as well. The problem is this organization hires bad managers most of the time and sucks at drafting hitters and trading for them. People want to rebuild but that is no surefire way to be good either. This team is close to competing as is. They just have to open the wallet a little bit more.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) With what, though? That's the thing. What do you use to "bring in legit talent?" After last offseason, there is no reason to believe the Sox will ever pay for a top free agent. They're going from an extreme buyer's market with all the best pieces available in areas of need to an extreme seller's market without any true solutions in positions of need. There's just no f'ing way. And, I hate to say it, but as far as the farm system has come, it simply isn't good enough to be able to outbid other contenders on "legit talent" via trade. If a truly "prime" talent is available, someone else is going to have more to give up. Sure, you may be able to come up with an offer that sounds plausible, but you can't ever come up with one that will end up being the best offer that a team receives. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...QPwuVrk/pubhtml For one we have to draft better when it comes to offensive performance. We seem to only hit with pitchers and then trade them away for hitters. We can sign a Cespesdes or Gordon but we have to pay. If we want talent and to win I'd rather spend a few extra mil on them than a Shields, Laroche or Dunn. We don't need elite talent to win but the talent has to be legit and not a castoff some other team doesn't want. But as I said I am not concerned with the construction of this team as is. This team can win a lot of games if they find a C, CF, and bull pen guy worth a crap. They don't have to be all-stars just competent.

QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 3, 2016 -> 10:50 PM) I agree but if the sox aren't going to make the post season what difference does it make if they win 50 or 86 games? better to at least secure a higher draft pick and international bonus pool considerations and potential international draft slots then continue down this path while burning through this "cores" value. The tribe isn't going anywhere, the royals even after being .500 this year aren't going anywhere and the tigers even after finishing above .500 understand its time to rebuild. Additionally the sox could add maybe 30+ million this off season and still barely be at .500 its not worth it; especially when you consider if they go down this route in the not too distant future Machado and Harper will be hitting the market at very young ages and free agent pitching market gets better moving forward and aligns with this teams "window". Thanks i tried to embed this The difference is 75% of Sox fans who are angry with management and have little faith management knows what it is doing may just go across town to enjoy winning baseball. I was on the southside all day yesterday and couldn't count the amount of Cubs shirts, W flags, and "GO CUBS GO" signs. The Sox can not afford anymore non competitive seasons. They actually have a solid team that could compete if they got a competent catcher, center fielder, and 4th starter (Shields is a 5 at this point).

Lol at people who think the Sox will do a full rebuild. They are going to rebuild and try to contend at the same time. Meaning they will get the young guys some time and keep a lot of vets. The Cubs winning the WS has all but assured this. The problem isn't that we need to rebuild, we just need to stop bringing in "bargains" hoping to get prime years out of them. Those are the mistakes we keep making that screws us over. Bring in legit talent and a legit 5th starter option and we'll be okay.

The Sox are done being relevant. They are now the Milwaukee Bucks or Cleveland Browns. This will be a cubs town and the Sox will just be here for s***s and giggles. Mainly, because our front office doesn't have a clue.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 12:30 PM) The name/logo are stupid, but you guys are making it seem like they relocated the franchise. Chill. Well that's probably because the Sox are getting laughed at across the country by the masses. I was in Vegas when it was announced and was asked about it several times while wearing my hat. Each time ended in big laughter from askee.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) The advertisements involved with a franchise still portray an image of the team. Even though the downward logo has to do with mortgage rates, it still gives a negative image when it's plastered next to the team's logo. It's why no team plays at Bob's Dildos Field. Sure, Bob's Dildos may be the best dildo company in the whole world and everybody has nothing but positive things to say about the company, but you still don't want a big dildo plastered all over your stadium walls, no matter how much revenue it brings in. Don't give the Cubs and their fans ideas they'd love.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 10:43 AM) I agree 100%, and I am admittedly one of those people. If they were coming off a playoff appearance, then I'd crack a joke or two and forget about it. But as someone who feels like he's running out of reasons to root for the Sox, it's just another thing to grind my gears. Worst part is the name sounds like those spam email banks. The nation will see it and think "Credit One Field" "Currency Exchange Field" or "Cash 4 Gold Field"

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) Go take a marketing class Yeah that arrow pointing down is fine for a company promoting low rates. Not so for a sports team looking to build up from garbage and years of underachieving.

lmao at Low Interest Field

QUOTE (SpankyEaton @ Oct 23, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) I don't trust them, but if we wait for JR to die and have the team sold for the team to be rebuilt, then it's going to take a long time to get into the postseason. I would rather them get started on the rebuild than be mired in mediocrity and keep acquiring has beens. The Sox don't need to rebuild and can't right now. The Cubs are building an NL dynasty and half the Sox fan base will switch over instead of watching a rebuild. The problem isn't that they need to rebuild. They need to hire people who know what they are doing in the front office and quality coaches with positive previous experience.

The Cubs becoming a championship contender has ruined the Sox. Fans wont stick around for a rebuild or more BS seasons when there is a much better option miles away. This organization is at a dead end.