tray

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:30 PM) What does that have to do with what he said about him as a clubhouse person? Frazier was a great person in the clubhouse and he will be missed by teammates.

Frazier had to be traded but his departure has to leave something of an empty feeling in the clubhouse. He will be missed.

The Sox have to maintain fan interest and try to avoid a real drop-off in attendance after trading so many players.

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) Make it stop please Sleepy. I had to defend myself against a personal attack but I did and I am done with this tread. I think this point was a slam dunk, like a Mark Aguirre dunk against Tripucka back in the day.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) I think the only irrefutable fact that we all can see is that your hate for the cubs makes you baseball irrational. No need to resort to personal jabs like calling me irrational and hateful just to disagree or make a contrary point while claiming that everyone agrees with you. Listen man, I feel no differently than countless true White Sox fans about this trade, and I know *a lot* of them. But I understand how cub fans are ecstatic about this and others who do not feel invested in one of baseball's biggest rivalries or perhaps are unfamiliar with the history of the two franchises and their fan bases may not fully understand it or care about it. "“I think we are back,” Contreras said after the Cubs completed their three-game throttling with an 8-0 victory Sunday. “Back to where we were last year. I hope we can be like this for a lot of games.” Club president Theo Epstein delivered them another ace in lefty Jose Quintana — a blockbuster deal with the crosstown White Sox that came with more than a subtle kick in the rear urging the boys to kick it into gear. The message, it seems, was received. On Sunday, Quintana took the ball for the first time as a Cub and validated Epstein’s gamble: Seven shutout innings, just three hits allowed and 12 strikeouts — tying a franchise record for a pitcher in his debut. “I’m really happy to be here,” Quintana said with the relief of a man transported from last place in the AL Central and a life of perpetually poor run support.Yet, he’s probably not as happy as his new teammates. Had the Cubs played much worse in the first half, Epstein and Co. might have had to ponder selling assets, rather than adding. Instead, they plucked the gem of this deadline before the market even opened. Quintana has pitched into at least the seventh inning in 51% of his starts since 2015. He’s pitched between 200 and 208 innings the past four seasons, precisely the reliable salve the Cubs rotation needed. And he’s under club control at between $8.5 million and $10.5 million per year potentially through 2020. It’s impossible to quantify if the Cubs’ enhanced self-esteem this weekend was more the intangible boost from the front office, or facing Baltimore’s major league-worst pitching staff. It’s not surprising which narrative the Cubs prefer. “It gives us that extra confidence,” says reigning NL MVP Kris Bryant, who hit his 19th homer among three hits Sunday. “We have a lot of the same core that we had last year, and we won the whole thing. To add him for an extra three years, too — I think it’s a great move.“I think our offense came alive here. Obviously, Jose did an unbelievable job. Today was a great day for us feeling good about ourselves.” In fact, it’s almost impossible to find a Cub who isn’t trending upward. So, he dominated, spiking his curveball for swinging strikeouts early in the game, leaning on his fastball and changeup late. He finished with a flourish, striking out Mark Trumbo looking and inducing a double-play grounder from Chris Davis to end the seventh, greeted with a high-five from Maddon upon reaching the dugout. “He knew he had done well,” says Maddon. “He’s a low-key fellow, but his method is outstanding. “From his perspective, coming over from the White Sox to the Cubs in the middle of the season, There’s got to be something going on in there. And he handled it extremely well.” Link Edited to add link: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2017/...6987316c62215a5

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 09:12 AM) You keep saying this, but have zero evidence to suggest it's true. Seems like you're more concerned with the Cubs sucking than the Sox being good. I am not suggesting that Hahn did NOT have other choices. To the contrary, I am stating that he did. One of the choices was to not make that breathless trade with Epstein and to simply wait to trade Quintana. Epstein became desperate to deal for a starter. The return was not overwhelming. No one can say that Quintana would have had any less trade value this week than he did last week...including to the cubs. Quintana will not win a World Series for the cubs but he may put them in a good position to get into the play-offs. Chalk up one big win already along with the emotional turn around of the team after getting that shot in the arm. Go ahead and root for the cubs . I guess the rest of us will wait for 2019 when

It has been hard for Epstein and cub fans to wipe the smirks off their faces since Quintana's start. Helping the cubs to another Word Series was not what most White Sox fans wanted Hahn to do with Quintana. He had other choices.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 12:31 PM) If you really think that Hahn took a lesser package than the one he received from the Cubs to help the Cubs is among the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I've ever heard. I didn't say that or think that. Hahn could have waited for another trade opportunity. This wasn't the first offer for Q and it would not have been the last. Who was more desperate to make this trade, Epstein or Hahn? There are reasons why the Sox and Cubs seldom make trades. Depending on how this one works out for both teams and both fan bases, this might be the last one for a long, long time.

Many Sox fans were and are against assisting the Ricketts clan, Epstein and the Cubs to another World Series. That's just a fact. If you disagree fine, but don't pretend that this rivalry does not exist, or that most Chicago fans are not fully aware of it and invested in it to some degree. Second, Hahn stated that it was the best deal available. Of course he is going to say that after he makes the trade. We don't know what the Brewers offered, how those players would eventually pan out, what other teams may have offered at the end of the traded deadline, or during the off-season. Why didn't Hahn just trade Q for the best available before the season started, like some wanted him to do? Why now? Because Epstein got desperate after Lester had a meltdown and the Cub fan base started stirring? Q's trade value was not going to go down immediately and it may have even increased in the next several weeks. Hahn sold out...to the cubs. If Quintana ends up helping the cubs to a world series, go ahead and enjoy watching with your Cubs Quintana jersey on. Is this petty? Yes, absolutely...but sports fandom is by definition fanatical and frequently quite petty. You wear hats with team logos and swear your allegiance. You root for the team and you disparage opponents. It is what it is. Don't try to pretend you are a sports fan but at the same time you are above it all.

There is no way that I would have helped the cubs chances of reaching the world series again. Hahn felt differently but as a cub fan growing up in Wilmette, he does not share the animosity that most south side sox fans have for the cubs. Bob Nightengale's Tweets appeared to confirm that Milwaukee was trying hard to get Quintana. https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/885883624641355778 So Epstein was concerned that Hahn would trade Q to the Brewers. Perhaps Hahn should have asked for more from Epstein or went back to the Brewers and given them the last opportunity to trade for him, or maybe held on to Q at least until the end of the trade deadline. I would never deal with Epstein or the cubs, ever.

I spoke with several Sox and Cub fans around town today and to a man, every cub fan liked the trade and every so fan was madder than he11. Why make a trade that helps the cubs...in any way shape of form? Hahn had other alternatives.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:24 AM) So close... I guess that I got greedy. You almost nailed it..! Me, I am not happy about helping the cubs in a MAJOR way so I have to ponder this one for a while. Q will really help their staff in the second half of the season and his contract makes it easier to lose Arrieta instead of signing him to a big contract. I am thinking that Jon Lester's 10 run first inning debacle last week may have played into this. One other thought. Eloy is 19 and Moncada and Luis Robert are about the same age. I wonder what that means for Avi Garcia and other players that are in their mid-twenties...including Rodon. Maybe they are no longer in the window where there is a crescendo of talent from our prospects. Sorry for the long post...a lot to ponder here.

Other teams like the Astros, the Yankees, and the Brewers match up better with the White Sox for Quintana. The Cubs would have to blow those teams away with a package of prospects to get Quintana, and that obviously is unlikely.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 09:03 PM) I know. I used to rail on and on about contracts and how dumb owners are cause it almost always ends up like this: Which is the team wanting to dump the guy. So Verlander makes 28,000,000 next year, then 28 mill in 2019 and 22 mill in 2020. I guess he's still "pretty good" but his era is 4.7 which is not good enough for that money, is it? Is anybody really going to take on that amount of dough? Cubs? Yes, because money is no object to Joe Ricketts and Co., yuge investment in building baseball's version of Disneyworld on the North side, Epstein's proven history of being a big spender, cub fans clamoring for a 're-peat". Add is Lester and Arrieta's inconsistency and you can almost bet the cubs will spend big on pitching if the opportunity presents and make a trade or two...at least one big name starter...perhaps Verlander, Sonny Gray or Archer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 9, 2017 -> 08:31 PM) There is a gigantic disconnect here. By letting him play in the DR for a period of time, the White Sox offer to him is effectively $7 million higher than it would have been if he had played in the United States. This isn't about another million, this is about millions... plural. Seven of them. That is what it would have taken to get him the extra $4 million after taxes that he is getting by staying in the DR. Stop and think about that. They are effectively increasing their offer to him by almost 1/3. Would you like 1/3 more income? Would you be willing to utilize an advantage to gain 1/3 more income? I think your perspective is 180 degrees the wrong way. You are looking at this as the White Sox, instead of as Luis Robert. The White Sox went out and did everything they could to sell their contract and their organization to this kid. If they had tried to fit him into their box, and their rules, there is a pretty high chance he would have went somewhere else. If it takes this kid playing two and a half months of baseball in the Dominican Republic for him to sign with the White Sox it was 100% worth it. Period. THAT alone is the only fact that matters. We have Luis Robert in our system because we were willing to give him this set up. Besides that the idea that somehow because he is in the DR that he isn't getting first class care is so xenophobic and outdated it isn't funny. The White Sox are still staffing and equipping this team with their own personnel who are more than capable of handling all of the points that you tried to make about his care. I was hoping we were past manifest destiny at least though. Thoroughly answered and Eloquently stated !

Everyone is potentially right here, depending on the level of prospects that are being offered in return.

Yeah, I hate the bunting as well. Renteria is calling for it wayyy to much IMO.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 07:31 PM) Just DFA Shields for gosh sakes. He's done. Agree. He's beyond worthless. As far as Kahnle, there is a lot of overreaction here. Yes, he should not have grooved a 3-2 pitch with bases empty, but it is part of the learning process for him and the catcher who called that....and maybe for Renteria. Throw something for an aggressive hitter to chase or let him walk.

MLB trade rumors reports that Cubs may be interested in Verlander . That could start narrowing the field for starting pitchers.

2018 LF Moncada CF Leury Garcia/Engel RF Avi Garcia 3B Davidson/Moncada SS Anderson/Saladino 2B Yolmer Sanchez 1B Abreu Catcher - Smith/Narvaez Hard to predict a future line-up when we don't know who might be traded or acquired. Moncada has to switch to third base or outfield if he wants to help this team. Yolmer is far superior on defense and the Sox cannot afford to sacrifice that by putting Moncada at second. The Sox are not going to give up on Anderson as a shortstop. Pencil him in at SS for 2018.

The commonly held belief that Hahn fleeced Rizzo with the Eaton trade plays in the background and might impact future trade talks between them. You know, the old fool me once...In addition the Yankees, Red Six and a few other teams can offer plenty of mid level prospects if that is all Rizzo will put on the table.

The Nats should be ready to deal now. They not only have Robles, but also shortstop Carter Kieboom and Juan Soto. Then again the Yankees seem like great trade partners with all of their excellent position player prospects. Maybe a trade with the Yanks for Q and relievers plus an infielder to the Nats for a few top prospects.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 26, 2017 -> 10:53 AM) Fulmer, Collins and Burger are barely out of college. Be serious. Fulmer is barely out of college? 53 Minor league games over parts of three seasons with a 4.85 ERA and a 12-17 record. I don't want to bash these players any more than I have, so I'll let this go.

Pittsburgh also tried very hard to get Quntana during the off-season and to a lesser degree, the Yankees did as well. So what? Hahn has put a marker out for what he wants for Quintana and no team has or is likely to meet his demands. Several teams have passed on Q, and that was before he had a very weak start to the season. I doubt Hahn lowers the asking price at this point. The Sox are not desperate to trade Quintana. Q's trade value might even be on the rise now after the past few starts.

My 2 cents - I do not think Quintana will be traded during this season. My first reason in thinking that is that I doubt that teams will offer what Hahn wants, which might be a high value prospect, perhaps in the top 25 in baseball, plus one or two other prospects. No team , in my estimation, will offer that. Secondly, I read a few reports that indicate that Quintana has a comfort level with the WS staff, players and a City where the fans love him, and does not want to be thrown into a play-off race with an unfamiliar team. Of course, Q would not have a choice without a no-trade clause, but the WS might honor his wishes, especially if what is being offered for him is not compelling. I think the rebuild ha fizzled. I'm just glad they signed Luis Robert to at least keep some hope alive.