Green Line

Never said that lineups and bullpen are completely meaningless. Hard to rebut things that are made up! I said in this thread that when you're looking for the "good" aspects of a manger, you won't ever find them in lineups and bullpen because managers never get credit for those when times are good. That doesn't mean you can't complain about a shitty lineup if you see one. For the record, I think Tony makes good lineups and Ricky made shitty lineups. Ricky is a shitty manager (and his career as a manager proves that) while TLR has a great track record of winning so I consider him to be a great manager. Maybe this year will be the end of his winning ways.

I was waiting for this to come up actually. Rick Renteria has literally no track record of winning. I was saying this last year in the context of him having a good 40-ish game stretch at that point in the season. I think the sample size for TLR is much, much larger. I agree that without context though, that looks like a zinger!

We can't ONLY evaluate them on results, I didn't say that we could. I said that when it comes to the good things that he does, that we can really only rely on results for, not the overall evaluation. I acknowledged that there are in-game decisions that he has made which I disagreed with - but results certainly play a large role in evaluating the performance of a manager.

You attack me but then at the end of the paragraph you implicitly agree with me, lol. He probably had somebody below him okay this. We both agree on that. I don't think that person needs to go kick rocks, and you do.

Wow, hubris is really a crazy thing. Hopefully your untested theory can be realized one day. It won't be pretty, but I'd love to see it.

I don't agree with this. If that was the case anybody could be a manager. They would just hire some data analytics nerd to sit in the dugout. Its obviously much more complex than that.

Why are you calling me dumb when you're not comprehending what I'm saying? I'm not denying the mistakes made that we can all see plain as day, such as not knowing the extra innings rule (even though nobody else knew it either). I'm simply saying that with regards to what he does WELL, we don't know because with most managers you don't see that stuff manifest itself on the field, it happens in the locker room! Thats the whole point - we all witness the mistakes but we don't witness the positive aspects because its impossible to know from a fan perspective. We can only rely on the results. So simple.

I know, sometimes I just can't help but speak out in the face of nonsense, like I'm an activist.

What are you going to do when we're past game 60 and this gimmick doesn't apply anymore? When things are going poorly everybody blames the manager and when things go well nobody ever thinks to give the manager credit. Thats just the way professional sports work. Like I said nobody knows what is going on inside the clubhouse so we have no idea what Tony is bringing to the table. We only have decades of experience pointing to his success to fall back on.

You think Jerry had anything to do with this? That is LOL worthy in itself. I really hope Renisdorf is not bothering himself with the details of what concession stand names are changed around each year.

They are actually playing the Orioles in Baltimore on 7/11 so I can't tell if this is a joke or not

Well, for the managing that starters part - I can think of one time he didn't pull Giolito when he should have. Not enough in my book to give him a demerit, especially when the rotation is pitching so great (even though that is apparently irrelevant to you, its not to me). I think he's managed the bullpen poorly in some cases, but I've never seen a Sox manager in my lifetime that I thought did a good job there, I don't think most fans of any team are usually happy with their bullpen management. When bullpen moves blow up in your face, every fan remembers it. When things go fine, nobody says boo. I have no complaint with his lineups whatsoever. Especially now that Robert and Eloy are both gone. He's playing the players who he has. At the end of the day, he will be judged by the team's success. If they do well and make a deep run in the playoffs, I'll say he did a good job managing the team. If not, hopefully he won't be brought back. I'm not in the clubhouse so I can't really say what strengths he is bringing to the table. You're not there so you can't either, you can only critique his moves from the couch. And to be clear, bullpen management and pinch hitting are two areas I've found myself in disagreement with.

Ahh. Clearly separating out the threads has worked to turn this toward a reasoned, sensible discussion. lol.

Well the game still hasn't been cancelled and people who need to drive will be leaving for the park soon. Hopefully they don't pull the same stunt that they did a couple weeks ago and cancel right at game time!

Can you expand upon this and explain how he should be managing the starters in a different way and what about it you don't like? Obviously success of the starters is not a factor in determining this category as you stated.

It was probably filled with bugs and bird poop from being outside so long. Biohazard liability that they couldn't give to a poor unsuspecting familly. Ok. I'm done with the story now.

I hope they play tonight. The taste of bad loss lingers I don't want to have to sit through another night of it. Just play in the rain and give the fans ponchos.

Yup. As with so many stories these days, the initial report that causes so much anger and outrage is misleading but the followup correction/clarification will never get as much press. "Per the Sun Times, the plaque dedicated to Micele is still in place at the seating area" She has a plaque dedicated to her still hanging up. I'm sure the big overhanging sign just had letters flipped around. The description that it was "trashed" is also just silly and over the top. How was it "trashed" rather than just changed.

I do see the stupid mistakes and I've called them out whenever I see them, especially in the moment when I participate in the game threads. I just think that the hate gets way overblown on here and in totality I think he's a much better manager than Rick Renteria, no doubt in my mind about that. I hate most of the bunts he calls and the bullpen use has been questionable, especially in the NYY series. That said I don't think he should be fired and when I see stupid stuff like people complaining about "Coded Language" when he compliments another player on a team or crying about a concession stand sign, I feel compelled to offer a different perspective to the echo chamber.

I care about the overreaction and faux outrage, yeah. I don’t care about the sox decision.

Maybe it’ll be dead some day. Oh well. All good things come to an end.

correct. Didn’t miss it, just don’t care. Understand it, but don’t agree. Im sorry this thread hasn’t been a big echo chamber for you.

Yeah.. like I said. He’s earned his place here. One of the most storied managers in Sox history.

So now you’re defending Jerry? Not following. I mean, he is my profile photo so I won’t argue if you want to place him ahead of TLR. They’re both close like I said. Im assuming now you’re just arguing to argue? Or do you really think Jerry Manuel is above TLR? You do you bro.

Sometimes airlines name planes after people in small writing on the side and then when they get a livery change they paint over it. Its a nice gesture but you can’t expect something like that to last forever.