FT35

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:24 PM) Post Q Deal Deadline Plans: Robertson, Swarzak, and Kahnle to WSH for Robles and Luzardo (Not going to happen but this would revamp WSH's pen completely while netting us another blue chip prospect) So maybe D-Rob and Swarzak to WSH for OF Soto, LHP Luzardo, and a flier (WSH majorly upgrades pen, Sox acquire top prospects and dump salary) Frazier to STL for RHPs Marco Gonzalez and Connor Jones (Dealt with STL last deadline, STL gets a veteran upcoming FA 3B and Sox get a decent return) Melky to NYY for INF Thairo Estrada (NYY gains a valuable veteran bat, Sox gain a versatile nearing MLB ready prospect) Kahnle dealt this offseason for a small, respectable prospect package In all honesty, I have a feeling D-Rob goes to WSH and we wind up with Robles somehow, Hahn won't budge, Rizzo gets desperate Why not dream big on Robles! Could you imagine!? OK...enough of the dreaming. LOL I think if they don't move Kahnle at the deadline, the return would be significantly lower. A lot of his value comes from teams looking for bullpen guys who are throwing well NOW to help them NOW. He's been dominant now, but there's no guarantee he will be this good next year. He's the perfect trade deadline asset, IMO. All the guys you mentioned above are really...Hahn will be taking August 1st off this year...to sleep....until then...buy stock in Starbucks...

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:54 PM) Me neither. Deadline reliever rentals usually fetch much more. Yep. When you stack the post season teams side-by-side, you usually find that they all have a strong lineup and a strong SP rotation--one sometimes way better than the other, but both usually strong. That's a given to make the playoffs over a 162 game season. But the true differentiator is the bullpen because there is so much variance between teams. That's why serious teams know that if they don't have a strong pen--they are going to get beat (DETROIT TIGERS). Last major expense of a winning team are the bullpen ringers (if you don't already have them). There's no coincidence that when putting the team together, we took some nice gambles on roster positions that are usually in high demand at the deadline--SP and bullpen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) It might be tempting to fix your bullpen in one move and have it fixed while Harper is around than worry that the guy in A ball will be up to replacing Harper in a couple of years. Very true--they might just keep him because they want him, but I doubt they are thinking Robels will be the only capable replacement for Bryce Harper IF they don't resign him. They aren't going to throw away a year because of that...then again...they did punt a season where they had the inside track on a pennant run to save Strasburg some innings.........

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 11:07 AM) I spend 5 weeks in the mountains and a week on the beach and you only come away with 2 top 50 prospects? You're slowing down Rick! Anyway, after the Jiminez deal, I don't think I saw this posted anywhere but it is worth being stated. I cannot come up with, in my memory of MLB history, a single franchise that has ever gone from a bottom of the league system and a team mired at the bottom of its division and wound up within 8 months with a consensus top 2 system, with basically zero damaging long term contracts on the books. It often takes GMs 4 or 5 years to do what he did in 8 months. We have seen it take franchises 2 or 3 GMs to figure this out. Fairly or unfairly, Rick Hahn has just set the standard by which every single future GM of a struggling franchise is going to be judged. Teams like the Mariners, Padres, Phillies - that have been stuck at the bottom of a division for way too long - their GMs are now going to be hit with statements about how the White Sox took a 4th place team and went from a top 25 system to a top 2 system in 8 months and why they can't do things like that. I don't know whether Hahn can take this organization the next step...but if he ever finds himself out of a job for whatever reason, he will immediately get an offer to come in somewhere and handle an organization in that same boat. This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again. Mostly because GM's with a core of young, controllable, TOP TALENT players usually find ways to build a winning team around them--hence eliminating the need to move them! Didn't work out that way for us. Hopefully they have learned their lesson...when these new young guys become our MLB team core, they will still need a farm system and be willing to add guys who aren't 38 years old or 10 years removed from an MVP season to fill any gaps in the MLB roster. And the notion of a bullpen/manager who is capable of using them is important to a team's overall success!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) He is pretty much blowing into his Nintendo cartridges right now. Well done with this comment! hahaha

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:48 PM) This is the type of thinking that used to turn me into a raving madman, now makes me merely shake my head. Rodon is 24 and the third overall pick in the 2014 draft. Didn't the Sox know Boras was his agent when they drafted him? Why would you want to trade him? Seriously? He has what three more years? We are predicted to contend certainly by his last year. Is your goal as a fan to go even younger than Rodon? Or are you simply worried about $$$. Now I know Hahn and KW maybe are popular right now, but if Boras is such a concern why would we even draft Rodon? Just for the years he'd give us prior to free agency cause we thought we'd be contending every year? I just don't understand if you are rebuilding, why would you get rid of a No. 3 overall first round draft pick who looks like he might be nasty in the future. I mean I've read a lot about the Sox payroll going to be very low. Could they not sign Rodon to one of those Salvy Perez type deals IF Rodon is projecting to be excellent? Again, please explain why you would want to deal a No. 3 overall draft pick who is only 24 when he ideally will still be very young when the team is expected to win the ALCS minimum, maybe the WS? Are you just trade happy or just petrified of Boras? This is the first I've heard about dipping down and trading some of the guys already projected to be part of the rebuilt contending club. Makes little sense to me. Good post--you hit on the essence of the debate for sure. I think Boras is the culprit. You draft him even though Boras is his agent because if he develops fast, you can add him to the mix of Sale and Q and ride that wave for several good years before you have to make a decision. If that doesn't work out, you have plenty of value to trade him if his extension falls before your competitive window arrives. I still think they will consider the mega-million deal that Boras is sure to propose if they consider Rodon a key member of their extended plans. 100M+? Maybe not with the (hopefully capable) pitching prospects they are accumulating. I don't think they need to solve that issue today and that's why you haven't heard his name much in trade talks. He still could very well be a cornerstone to what we're trying to do. Trading Q, Robertson, Melky and expiring contracts like Frazier are more critical at the moment. IF we get to the point where, based on performance, we're realizing that we won't be able to justify Boras $ into Rodon, they will look to move him in the same way the Mets moved Jon Neise--a good young pitcher with upside in exchange for another solid MLB-level piece in Neil Walker that addressed a hole left by Daniel Murphy's departure. You transfer his talent from a surplus of SPs in a lateral move to an area of need--then you don't have to worry about extending him to a HIGH RISK mega-deal or losing him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) I fully expect Frazier being to traded to the Red Sox in the coming days. I just don't see Dombrowski playing poker with us when Todd is the best available 3B out there. I'm also sticking with my prediction that C.J. Chatham will be the return. The Josh Donaldson watch is on too...but I think Frazier is more likely than an intra-division deal involving Donaldson.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) Unless they get him fairly cheap, I don't see it. The Brewers aren't far enough along to buy big on a half-season investment. Sonny Gray still makes some sense for them, but Darvish is gone after this year and if the Brewers come down to earth a bit and the Cubs start playing well, they're hoping and praying for a shot at a play-in game. That's not worth losing a prospect. The Royals would make sense for Darvish though. They are probably going to have one last hurrah before they are forced to rebuild, regardless of their willingness. Yeah but they do have a history of adding the big arm via trade when they are in the hunt--Sabathia and Grienke come to mind. I don't think they're gun shy when it comes to using their prospects. Would be strange to see Brinson heading BACK to TEX though...

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:25 AM) Ha, as a BENCHMARK for Kahnle return. I don't like player comps anymore. Except for the Eloy as Jermaine Dye. I gotchya! Had to give you crap. I like them from the standpoint of comparing stat lines with others who have accomplished the same type of line. The Kahnle/Hand comp is a good value comp for sure. He may actually choose to move Kahnle first and let our return set the market for Hand accordingly. One thing we are learning...Rick likes the driver's seat--and understandably so. And yeah, the JD comp--I totally see it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:09 AM) https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/brad-hand Hand is getting quite a bit of suitors for the Padres. What info, if any, would sox learn for any of our own relievers? Is he a comp for Kahnle? Padres are getting a lot of bites on their cheap starters like Cahill. So wish that Holland/MiGo could have sustained what they were doing. Wait a sec...I thought you didn't like player comps!? ; )

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:45 PM) I understand why he's not ranked high on many lists, but I think that we'll look back 7-8 years from now and Dunning will be the biggest pickup from any of these deals. Dunning would have to be the next Clayton Kershaw for the others in front of him now to not be viewed as MAJOR busts if Dunning turned out to be the best of the bunch. I think he's great--but I'm not sure his ceiling is Moncada, Jimenez, Robert-high. I do hope he gets into that group though for our sake! He's an exciting/important part of this!

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 06:46 AM) I think he was just reiterating the fact that they were able to land someone who they were really high on. I think the comment was less a slam on the Cubs and more of an appreciation on the talent they got back. They set the market with this deal...they didn't get more or less than market value what Q was worth--they set the market value. All other MLB deals will be using this as a measuring stick when it comes to value. In essence--the other teams didn't offer that much and that's why we held Q as long as we did. They didn't meet the market price so they didn't complete the trade--he's not on their teams. Cubs met the price and that's why the trigger was pulled.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 05:21 AM) I actually wish Hahn would not say things like "This was by far the best offer we had." I'm struggling to understand the purpose of that. It would seem there is no need to embarass the Cubs that way, and secondly, no need to show other GMs that the market for prospects is as weak as it apparently is. I think he was just reiterating the fact that they were able to land someone who they were really high on. I think the comment was less a slam on the Cubs and more of an appreciation of the talent they got back. They set the market with this deal...they didn't get more or less than market value what Q was worth--they set the market value. All other MLB deals will be using this as a measuring stick when it comes to value.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 10:28 AM) Robertson is still going to Nats imo, just too much smoke there and Nats learned the hard way that they need him and couple other arms. Agree. Especially now with the Cubs getting significantly stronger today. This should kick the tires on corresponding moves from Washington and Milwaukee.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 01:31 PM) We had discussed Hahn not budging on our expiring assets to send a message to other teams to be serious with our big assets. I didn't think that worked. But I do think Hahn not budging for Sale/Eaton/Q helped in that it made other GMs not budge in getting their top price for their assets. Nobody decided to say "hey I'll go just enough under Hahns price to get these players" like we saw with Tampa and DeLeon. Pretty incredible. It is incredible! It's one thing to sit back and play armchair quarterback and offer what we feel as "the negotiation angle he hasn't thought of" but I feel pretty insignificant now offering any type of criticism or "he should/shouldn't do this" type advice to a guy who has actually pulled off--IN REALITY--the things we sit here behind our keyboards and dream up in our broke ($) lives. It's very possible that if things go as planned and these guys come to fruition, in a few years, people could be talking about Rick Hahn in the same way they talk about Theo. Granted, he's trading guys with high-value so he's going to get high-value in return, but He's gotten some major results so far--better than expected...and that takes real talent.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 01:10 PM) I did not think we would get a prospect to the caliber of Jimenez. I think the structure with the weaker back end was more in line with my expectations. People around here thought that the 3rd and 4th pieces would be notable spects. I did not. I was told he was the hold up and kind of thought the Cubs just wouldn't budge. Cubs are going to that system...which is what you do when you're in their position though I suppose. But man to lose Gleyber Torres and Eloy Jimenez in 1 year... Got them a ring and netted Quintana--so in many ways, I suppose they maximized the return but that's a lot of future to mortgage!

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 12:58 PM) sad* Nice! Q left some nice things. All that was left in Sale's locker was a pair of scissors and a pile of scraps when he left.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 12:47 PM) LOL. Rangers saw that deal and have now put Darvish on the market. Thank goodness Hahn struck when he did. Watch...Darvish to Milwaukee...LOL

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) KLaw thinks Eloy will be a star Lol...for now! Wait till he has to make his next list and watch all the "holes in Eloy's game" that start showing up in his write-up now that he's in the Sox' system. Keith Law sees our logo and instantly dumps.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) That would be bad publicity for the Sox I don't know--I might disagree. There is no longer the "2 teams going in opposite directions" story. Now when "White Sox" comes up, everyone jumps right to the "they are a team on the rise--they've done some great things to put them in a position to be successful in coming years" story. The picture painted is much more colorful than 8 months ago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 11:10 AM) In general, there are about half a dozen other teams out there who this will be a dividing moment for. They will be able to look back and think if we had only given up a little bit more, we could have had Quintana. Not to mention having the potential story line developing of "Cubs turned everything around when they got Quintana from the White Sox." If that happens, it will be nice having that little White Sox Brand reminder peppered into the Cubs late-season coverage.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) I wonder if Kap will now think Q is a top starter. Oh he ABSOLUTELY will!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Top 2 guys have high-end possibilities, they are also still at lower levels so certainly risk associated with it. Will miss Q...truly a fantastic pitcher. LOVE that it was for Q ONLY...we still have our bullpen pieces to flip in other deals instead of them being throw-ins! Plus plenty of time to focus on other deals before the break!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 09:23 AM) It's great that you admitted you were wrong. I guess the point is that sometimes things happen which you least expected. Is it usually a huge waste of our time? Yep. But that's half the fun! Not knowing what could possibly be happening. Otherwise, I wouldn't come to this subforum and I'd just wait, like some of my very serious Sox fan friends do, for the deals to be announced, so as not to waste their own time. So few things generate excitement anymore--Lord knows our team's play doesn't...but in the meantime, we're like dogs being tossed something to chew on. Sure, in the end it's just a bone...but it's fun to chew on.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 05:56 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&page=2_30 How many recent (last 18 month) top prospects, other than Judge, have lived up to their billing? Aaron Altherr was on nobody's radar. Chris Taylor? Schebler? Where the heck did those two come from? Maybe only Bellinger, Conforto, Sano, Trea Turner (injured), Inciarte...#26-30 on first page screen. Lesson, the Yankees and Dodgers know what they're doing? Be more careful with the Astros' prospects? The Reds know how to spot catchers/position prospects?? Benintendi probably just got left off your list. Tray Mancini looks pretty good in Baltimore.