FT35

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Don't like this at all, as his command isn't close to being big league ready. Oh common fathom...he'll fit right in nicely with our bunch!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Let's take the hypothetical that the Sox decide to do nothing. Is there anyone big they lose this offseason? I'm not seeing anyone major who is going to be a free agent any time soon. Last year they needed to do something with Samardzija and didn't, but they don't even have that this year. End of 2017 they have some huge decisions because they'll be losing Lawrie, Cabreroid, and Frazier, but this year if they were to stand pat then that still sets them up for one "last ditch effort" next year at trying to fill holes by trading for big name players like they do every year. True. But they are "losing" trade value on guys like Robertson and maybe Melky if they are sellers and keep them for 2017. If we were out of it we could dangle Robertson for sure to a contender--almost all contenders need as many back-end arms as possible and overpay for them at the deadline.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) My hope: they do nothing. I used to think this too for stability sake...but my hope is that they are in a position (either clear buyers or clear sellers) to do something. If they are in a position to buy, that means we've strung some good play together and are in the picture. If they are out of it, then that opens the door to oversell some of our vets to many teams who overpay at the deadline as they "go for broke." I hope the position is clear...unlike last year's trade deadline brain freeze when we were brutal all year, then strung together enough wins leading up to the deadline to paralyze our thinking to keep Shark--then were even more brutal in the 2nd half. Give me one way or another.

Vizcaino would be a great add too. A stud now and 3 more years of control. I think the price tag would be huge though. If Fulmer and Burdi are able to contribute out of the pen late this season, you add Vizcaino to Jones and Robertson...yikes.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 08:27 AM) White Sox roster when he took over in 2013: Core Chris Sale - pre arb Jose Quintana - pre arb Addison Reed - pre arb Veterans worth their contract and worth something via trade Jake Peavy Alexei Ramirez Prospects in the top ~200 range Erik Johnson Courtney Hawkins Carlos Sanchez --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White Sox roster now Core Chris Sale - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Quintana - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Jose Abreu Adam Eaton - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Carlos Rodon Tim Anderson Nate Jones - Hahn locked up on a team friendly deal Veterans worth their contract and worth something in a trade Todd Frazier Brett Lawrie Melky Cabrera James Shields David Robertson Prospects in the top ~200 range Zack Collins Carson Fulmer Spencer Adams Zack Burdi Alec Hansen Trey Michalczewski These are important things to remember when the Sox hit their next slide. We all can be guilty of overlooking these things when the losses are piling up. We're far from being "there" yet, but when you look at this post, you can see the progress that's been made. Hahn's been burned by poor scouting and poor performance by the players he brings in...but overall--you can't argue that things are looking better than that first year when Kenny passed him this ticking bomb with 3 seconds left on the clock.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 5, 2016 -> 06:19 AM) He's pitching like a 5th starter now. His first 2 starts were indescribable. Is he worth that price as a fifth starter? In a vacuum, no. But in the Sox circumstances, maybe. Still the poor talent evaluation out of Hahn and Cooper is a big reason for the circumstances requiring a overpayment for a fifth starter. That's great because we needed a 5th starter too! Now we need a 3rd!

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jun 10, 2016 -> 07:57 PM) When I watch a game in any sport, I listen for a few things. If the color guy is brilliant, I want the pxp man to serve him up 77 mph hangers all game and let him do his thing. I look for humor. I listen for genuine care and conversation between the two. In Bennetti and Stone's case, they have it. Hawk and Stone do not. Stone sounds excited and happy during home games and quite the opposite during away games. I cannot blame him, because Hawk's cliches, consistent interruptions and homerism get rather old. Stone is brilliant. But I think some of the chemistry issue between him and Hawk is that both like their ego stroked. Jason does that for Stone and Hawk doesn't. Hawk isn't as smart as Stoney and he's afraid Steve's brain will overshadow his work so he doesn't "tee up" Stone like Jason does. In turn, Stone doesn't tee up Hawk much. So they both sit in their corners. That being said, like others have mentioned, I am not sold on Jason yet. To each their own...but I think he sounds like a minor league announcer where quirk and goofiness are every minor league team's bread and butter. This is the majors...it's time to get serious, not silly! What I like about Hawk is a. it's timeless. I hear the same phrases that I did in my childhood and it creates a nice throwback experience for me. b. he oftentimes says what all of us are thinking and gets angry with us. c. Aside from him arguing borderline plays that are actually called correctly, I love that he's a homer. I know it doesn't fit well with some of the WGN national broadcasts, but it fits with me because I'm a homer. I like the White Sox and I hate all 29 other teams. I do show respect for good baseball plays by opposing players and I clap for injured opponents who have to leave the game due to injury. I don't like to see anyone get hurt--but it pains me to see any other team win ANY game. I just get the sense that Hawk feels the same way so I identify with it. I identify when he's yelling a walk-off home run call because I'm at home yelling the same thing at the TV. Walk-offs call for yelling...not simply inflection! I too, can not STAND Joe West. I love his stories of the past--because I hear him share them every summer and it's become a part of "summer" for me. I like how I know what he's going to say on most plays. I love that he doesn't talk much in the 9th...because...seriously...how could anyone talk during the 9th!? I just get the sense that if anyone ever challenged my team, Hawk would drop the gloves and fight for them. I want Jason to succeed but it's going to take a while to for him earn a full approval, although I wish him nothing but the best in his quest. He's already 10 times better than the Cubs' silly excuse for broadcasters.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jun 30, 2016 -> 07:09 AM) It wouldn't be as bad if so many of the players didn't inexplicably have the worst year(s) of their career the very second they put on a White Sox uniform. Dunn, LaRouche, Samardzija, Shields, David Wells just to name a few... Gotta agree with this! You can't really prepare for drops in production of this magnitude when you're signing a guy. OR can you? Guys switching leagues typically struggle. Just look at Albert Pujols his first year in Anaheim. If Albert struggles, LaRoche will likely struggle! We're starting to throw Todd Frazier into this mix--albeit big power numbers. You look at the guys we sign--the most consistent are players who are coming from another AL team--the numbers project better and you can account for boosts in production for our stadium when a guy knows AL pitchers already. That's all we heard about with guys like Dunn, LaRoche, Frazier etc...these guys hit at least 30+ HR's in the NL, drove in 100--they should be good for 40+ each year playing at the Cell. Well...not knowing any of the pitchers kind of cancels out any benefits of the stadium--at least their first year. Then look at Brett Lawrie--AL guy putting up comparable numbers to his career averages--not great numbers but predictable--numbers you can build around because you kind of know what you're going to get. Melky's the same way--played enough games in Toronto/KC to approach his career norms with us. One would think the guys paid to assess these types things could see basic trends like these and know ways to mask them more...but we keep going to the NL power hitter well every time we need a bat and end up disappointed.

QUOTE (gosoxgo2005 @ Jun 29, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) So what was a three year window has rapidly became a year and a half window. We all know this team isn't doing s*** this year, so it could probably be considered a 1 year window. Others may be more optimistic, but I'm assuming they will be s*** again next year. Sooo I'm gonna go ahead and consider said window closed. This organization sucks If it were easy, everyone would win every year!

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 29, 2016 -> 11:52 AM) All money decisions are ownership decisions. This premature "going for it" and bogus "3 year window" (when the core was signed for 5/6 years) was probably an ownership decision or a KW decision. it was totally unrealistic and had little chance of working (as we are seeing). But for as long as KW has worked with JR and for as long as Hahn has worked with KW, he's got to have developed some trust. And he should have told JR to wait a year or 2 until we rebuild this thing and THEN we'll go for it. In the meantime, spend some money on the organization. But KW was probably the "go for it" instigator. I still think they could make some progress without trading Sale and Q; put Robertson, Frazier and Cabrera out there. I think it's sensible to put at least Robertson out there. We have an outside chance of making the playoffs but many teams in front of us and the inability to win divisional games. Having a resource of Robertson's caliber for a .500 team is not critical. He's saved 20 of our 77 games. He's much more valuable to a playoff-bound team. Putnam and Jones both have better numbers than Robertson and could most likely cover the 9th. I'd love to see if they could get a couple of pieces for Robertson now and if they actually make the unlikely climb back into the race, maybe make a splash and get someone else at the deadline or maybe turn to someone like Carson Fulmer like they did with Bobby Jenks in 05'. But in all likelihood, if we were to climb back into the race by then, it would be because Putnam and Jones were getting the job done, so we might not have to change anything!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 03:21 PM) The original trade talk I saw centered around the Sox being asked for Tim Anderson. Now I am not going to claim to know how the discussion went, nor will I claim to know what other teams were willing to offer, but $10 million a year for what Shields can do on the mound is dirt cheap. Compare that to what other free agent starters got this off season. When people claim that the inclusion of Tatis was "unnecessary", seem to have some sort of difinitive proof of both what other offers were on the table, and what else that San Diego had been asking for to make the conclusion that Tatis was not needed to get a deal done. Finally let's be honest. Tatis was a guy who wasn't in the Top 30 coming out of Latin America, and he wasn't in the White Sox top 30 prospects in a system that at best has been top heavy with quick movers, in a system that lacks depth. Tatis wasn't even the Sox top signing in the season coming out of Latin America. Tatis is somewhere around a half of a decade, at best, away from having a chance at being a major league baseball player. If you have to give up a guy with those credentials to get a major league starting pitcher, I think most teams make that deal. So while Tatis's value has gone up with Sox fans simply because he got traded, let's not exaggerate who we gave up either. He is a long term lottery ticket, who has a lot of value in his family name. So you think SD was thinking Anderson early and Hahn talked him down to Tatis? It could be, but I would be more likely to buy that if Tatis was a SS. You never know though, it's early enough in his career, it's common for guys to switch positions when they are that young. In all honesty, we can all speculate all we want, we don't really know what all goes into getting a deal done. Still I believe the original posters who were making the point were believing the single A player could have been anyone and they would have been unnecessary since SD was looking to just dump Shields and we already agreed to a MLB ready SP prospect and $27M. This is probably how they speculated the deal to do down: "Oh you want Shields?, Great, he's yours if you pay him part of his remaining $" "27 Million for 2 years, great he's yours" "Oh and you're going to give up a young MLB ready starter too? GREAT! He's yours, thanks for your business." "And Tatis? OK Great! He's yours!!! *Aside* Donnie, have Genie get Mr. Hahn set up on a points program on his way out for being such a VIP customer..." Posters are saying he could have probably stopped at #2...and CERTAINLY #3...but #4 too!? Good. Ness.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) Erik Johnson is right-handed and also bad. That's my bad...I just figured that since he was in our rotation he had to be LH.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Where has it been said that Tatis was a "throw in"? Just me if not anyone I missed...maybe the Padres interest centered solely around Tatis...who knows. But the trade was a textbook salary dump--summarized by the GM's PUBLIC comments about Shields after his last start. They wanted him on the NEXT train out of town and so while it was a GREAT time to buy, we came to him with $27 Million a young, LH MLB-ready starter, AND Tatis. The guys who called this move out were claiming the inclusion of Tatis to be unnecessary because the salary DUMP was already achieved without trading him away.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 28, 2016 -> 02:27 PM) So you were a big Tatis fan before this trade? That's interesting. I do see what he's saying. It's not that he was a big Tatis fan, it's the logic behind his inclusion in a deal where SD was clearly just looking to dump Shields. It's something we have done in the past--dump that extra low A prospect as a "throw in." But why lose a prospect when you're doing SD a favor just by agreeing to take and PAY Shields? Not saying that Tatis could be the next well...Tatis...but the Cardinals DID keep Albert Pujols in the minors because Fernando Tatis SR was manning 3rd base at an All-Star level at that time. This kid is what...17 years old? So no we're not claiming that we just traded the farm away, but just saying...

Someone remind me again what is keeping us from sending Avi down for a while (outside of having no one to replace him with...ha!) I know he's young, but he's been a disaster in the field so they aren't benefiting from his glove much. He was a .291 career hitter in the minors...hovering in the .240+ range in MLB...Maybe he could find some of that magic again along with maybe half of the missing 50 points on his average? Even if he doesn't become the 30/100 guy we thought we were getting...I'd take 20+/80 if he could hit .275. Trying to showcase him at the MLB level isn't exactly working...as it stands now, not many teams looking for a .240/13/50 player who cancels out most of his own production whenever he plays RF.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 26, 2016 -> 05:18 PM) What are you willing to give up for Reddick and Vogt? That's putting a lot of eggs in one basket, but at least it's a direction....not just standing pat. If Hahn wants to save his job, he's going to have to argue for a move like that or there's no way they're going to compete for a wild card spot. We have to be careful because this is the type of deal people throw stones at if it doesn't pan out. Getting those 2 would likely cost us several pieces of our farm system. So now, Hahn needs to save his job by making a trade that everyone will accuse him of screwing up because Reddick and Vogt are vets?? Our fan base needs to pull on the same end of the rope in what they rake our management over the coals for. DO we want youth or do we want vets? The proven vet trades haven't worked out, but it seems like all the people who throw stones at management for making such deals, are the same ones calling for them to be made to save the guy's job! Hahn was a genius to land Samardzija--exactly the RHP starter that we needed--then Holy CRAP...Hahn is an idiot for trading pieces of our farm system to get a scrub like Samardzija. Hahn needs to find a way to land a proven starter like James Shields if he wants to save his job--then--we need to FIRE Hahn because he brings in losers like James Shields! You can see it...Finally...Hahn makes a great deal to land Reddick and Vogt!!! Just what we needed!!! Then Vogt hits the DL the same week Reddick goes into a 3-25 slump and the masses prepare for a stoning and life without Carson Fulmer.

I'm liking what he's shown so far and encouraged that we didn't trade him! In fairness, he hasn't really faced many of the AL's best pitchers, but has the ability to look over-matched in 1 at bat and then completely turn on a pitch and make the pitcher look bad in the next. It's hard to tell where he will settle in...I'm not sure the power is AS strong as what he's shown so far. I see flashes of an Orlando Hudson type floor. This weekend he's looked more like a young Alfonso Soriano--but I doubt that's where his skill set truly is! Can't wait to see the speed--it's exciting enough that it could really ignite this offense.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 22, 2016 -> 03:40 PM) Agree but to also say Quintana is on a par w Sale is also very shortsighted. They both have pitched on the same team and in the same home field for 5 years and Q is 3 below .500 and Sale is 27 +. Now Q's numbers are definitely affected because he gets terrible run support. But the other problem is we are not talking about a short sample here. We are in the fifth year of each being in the rotation. It may be un-explainable but for some reason the team does not perform behind Q. Put him on Boston and he may be better than Sale w their offense. Also important to remember that Sale has this same offense to give him the same run support as Q and he's still 27 over. That's remarkable really.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) I bet we could find this same exact post (X1000) from the end of last July/early August. Can't argue here! The margin of error is small in our games with the Twins...we need to essentially win out our games with them, then hope for the Tigers to give us a few gifts.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 07:10 AM) 0-9 their last three road trips to those cities. 5-17 for their last 22 AL Central games. Not to throw grass on the false hope fire, but they are still just a solid run (against any opponents) from being right there. It's possible to hang in the picture because KC/CLE/DET will be beating up on each other. Certainly another 5-17 Central run won't cut it, but if they could bump that to 10-12 over the next 22 Central games, who knows.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 07:02 AM) Latos was too cheap. If Hahn signed him for $6-8 million, he'd still be the 5th starter and we wouldn't have traded for Shields...spending another $27 million in the process. Greensox also failed to include not seeing any VALUE in Junior Guerra, he of the 4-1 record for the Brewers and nifty ERA. Really pushing it to argue Rollins influenced LaRoche to retire, we might as well blame Chicago schools and Rahm Emmanuel. Omar Vizquel in 2010 with Alexei he was not. If you really want to argue what would have been the BEST possible way to spend money this offseason, it would have been Asdrubal Cabrera at 3B and Desmond at SS and then Pearce/Raburn/Alvarez to share DH. Not necessarily playing Saladino or Sanchez this year, because the first two players would have made the major league team much more competitive in 2016. Obviously a lot of GM's passed on both those guys. A lot of smart GM's signed the likes of Gordon, Upton (finally heating up) and Heyward, too. I was originally against the Rollins signing based on principle alone, but the picture is clearing up a little watching Anderson. He's definitely up and down, but looks like he could contribute. The Rollins signing was a cheap way to cover the first couple months. Had they signed Desmond (or Cabrera to play SS), they would have spent a lot more to cover those 2 months and been forced to keep Anderson in the minors, once again--a top prospect blocked from the MLB roster by a mediocre vet. With Rollins, they could feel good about cutting him and his minor league deal and sliding Anderson in at short.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) It's not predetermined that they won't score one though. That's the problem. You can' just assume that the hitter would get out anyway so the bunt is fine. It doesn't work like that. Actually with us...it's pretty close to predetermined...you're safe to assume the hitter will likely just get out! In all seriousness...baseball is more about how you USE your outs to create runs. If a run is scored as a result of using an out productively, it's not "giving away outs..." in fact...if you don't USE your outs productively you are "giving away runs." HOF caliber players get out 70% of the time. White Sox players get out MUCH more frequently than this! From a pure statistical standpoint, in any given at bat, it's far more likely that the batter will get out than get a hit. If your team averages 7-8 hits a GAME...that's less than a hit per inning. If you have a pitcher who has good control and doesn't walk anyone, that's taking more runners off the bases--so a team is left with using their outs to do the work of hits/outs. Do you give a hitter the chance to get a hit or the chance to help his team? Many times, it's either or. What I DO have a problem with is watching a team with low fundamental skills try to bunt unsuccessfully. THIS is giving away outs. If you can execute, it's not a bad thing to use that out you're probably going to get anyway to do something productive...especially with a struggling batter. It's all scenario based though. With Sale on the mound...you need to give him a couple runs and you'll probably win. Why play for the big inning and have a double play waste an opportunity to score, when all you need are a couple runs? Same with Quintana. Get your run first then swing freely for more. If you've got a shaky starter on the mound...it's different--you need all the runs you can get! But big innings are rare when you look at the bigger picture total of innings played. Most innings played in baseball are scoreless--there's less than a 50% chance a run will be scored in any given MLB inning. So I must conclude that the bunt and any other form of sacrifice is a very important part of a team's overall success.

1.) Chose Flowers over Pierzynski--Tough to say...I think letting AJ go was probably ok since they wanted to get younger at that time...I'm just not sure I would have had Flowers as my primary catcher. Keeping him as the backup would have been fine. He never showed anything other than the occasional pop sandwiched between a massive amount of outs. Everyone talks about his pitch framing, but there were many years that the ball didn't make it to his glove...... 2.) Jeff Keppinger for $12 million--no way around this...it's just a bad signing. Gotta put some of this on the MLB talent evaluators. Not sure what anyone saw here outside a slightly below replacement utility guy. 3.) Traded Matt Thornton (who was still productive last year and has played in the postseason) for no MLB talent. These 3 were all a part of the youth movement. I agree with letting all these guys go. Thornton was the toughest to let go, but how many 70 win teams need a good setup guy? He was worth a lot more to a contender and that's the perfect time to trade an aging bullpen arm. 4.) Traded Jake Peavy (who went on to contribute for 2 World Series champs) into Avisail Garcia 5.) Traded Alex Rios (who went on to contribute for a World Series champ) into Leury Garcia. 6.) Extended Robin Ventura--this was a "yes man" decision. 7.) Paul Konerko's last 2 years for $16 million--this was ALSO a "yes man" decision. JR kept Paulie on for a farewell tour. 8.) Addison Reed for Matt Davidson--GREAT trade at the time. No joke. Reed was a lower tier closer for a bad team and Davidson was a pretty respectable prospect. We had no 3rd baseman prospects then...I applauded this move and even though Davidson didn't work out, it showed good thought. 9.) Rushed Rodon to MLB--agree. Even though Carlos showed enough last year to get a shot this year and will be very good someday. 10.) Traded Dunn, Beckham, and De Aza (2 of the 3 having an impact on postseason games) for no MLB talent: Not sure Dunn or Beckham were ever going to return ANY type of talent!! De Aza showed glimpses of promise with us, but we had Eaton now in CF...it made De Aza expendable. 11.) Adam LaRoche for $25 million--Ouch! 12.) Jeff Samardzija for Marcus Semien, Josh Phegley, and $10 million: For some reason, Hahn thought we were in win now mode when we still had GAPING holes at 2nd, 3rd, C, RF, 3 rotation spots and 3 bullpen spots (and manager!). But I do see the logic...this team has always been looking for a RH starter to go with Sale, Q and Rodon and at the time...Danks. 13.) Melky Cabrera for $42 million--Not a bad signing to find a young proven OFer with speed and pop who could get on base and hit .300+ with 2 different clubs and 2 different leagues. Talent was real, but now he's declined with us like so many have. 14.) David Robertson for $46 million--Another head-scratching win-now move. Did it to gain fan support that they were serious about winning. I bet he wishes he had this one back though. The top closer is usually one of the last pieces you add to a great team. You fill the role with serviceable young flame throwers that you already have in your system, until you find the right 40+million dollar guy. (See Cubs.) 15.) Todd Frazier for Trayce Thompson, Micah Johnson, and $16.5 million--Gotta give something to get something. Trayce was the only prospect that had shown ANYTHING in the majors. Talent is there, but Hahn used him to fill a decade-long hole at 3rd base with arguably a top 5 3rd baseman in the league with a couple of years of control. Frazier's average is down but his production is there. I think this one is a wash. 16.) Mat Latos--this is the thinking that is a little shaky--the next 2 names on your list. The flaw in the thinking is that they cheap and can still play--but the potential is high that they could do more harm than good. I actually think Latos played out for as much as they paid him. He gave us 6 early wins and they cut ties to solidify those wins before all of them were canceled out with L's. 17.) Jimmy Rollins--yeah...come play SS till Anderson gets a few pitches under his belt in AAA. Good intent in the signing, but still... 18.) Waiting at least 2 years too long before releasing John Danks--yep...this guy was done awhile ago. Waiting 2 years was to protect the pride of Kenny's large 5-year extension. 19.) James Shields for Erik Johnson and $27 million--rolled the dice and lost badly. For now at least... But I'm not sure Erik Johnson was who anyone thought he was--not in a good way. 20.) Has refused to fire the coaching staff. Agree...loses piling up every year combined with the same on-field brand of baseball. Not a good combo. 21.) Spent five million on utility infielders Beckham and Bonifacio who did nothing. The thinking was...we needed a 2nd baseman. 5 million for 2 MLB players with experience is not that bad of a loss. Beckham was great defensively as always, and Bonificio just didn't pan out at all. So yeah...a mixed bag of thoughts about some of these negatives. Great list though--lots of conversation starters!

Is it me or does this story sound way too like the movie "Major League?" The way they assembled the roster based on who was available at the time...the way the team has performed with their pieced together roster, the way they pulled their manager out of a day job with no experience managing, the way they have continued to faithfully roll out the same people who are sinking the ship--the current state of the franchise and its fans. It's almost so bad that it could be intentional...like to justify a move to a different market...like away from the glorious Cubs. Soon to be sold as "a fresh start" that most of what's left of the fan base is calling for. Only thing is, that fresh start could be happening elsewhere. Sad to think about but can't help but go there with the thoughts these days.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 07:36 AM) Probably not enough but a few things: 1. Signs Pre-Arb or Arb players to great below market extensions: Quintana, Sale, Jones, Eaton 2. Acquired Adam Eaton and Jose Abreu 3. Peavy trade return was solid without eating $$ 4. Marco Paddy was hired and Nick Hostetler promoted under his watch 5. Great at talking to the media. He appears to be extremely transparent even though he basically says nothing. 6. The last 4 drafts have been pretty good overall. Obviously, most moves from last offseason on have been pretty bad and when weighing the bad vs the good, an argument can be made that he should be fired even though I wouldn't be on board with that. Good point about the arb bargains. We often overlook these types of things when we see losses piling up. Just wonder how much of it is mastermind negotiating or done out of necessity because of financial restrictions. But either way, this is a good example of the RESULT being there. Regardless of how it got there, it's a plus for him.