FT35

I wish Piscotty nothing but the best. If you fail at bringing in top talent—this is the consequence. This is what happens when top talent doesn’t want to play for you. Agree—Jerry isn’t willing to offer enough money for the premier talent—but it’s the other way too—money is not enough for the great players to sign and play here. They will have to way over spend AND convince premier talent to punt on their careers amounting to much. At least for the first several big name contracts until they find a winning formula and it gets easier to sign guys. We all know that’s a ship that will never set sail with this owner/front office.

I think mine was the Ronald Belasario experiment. The Robin Ventura bullpens defied reason.

This might be why the front office focused more on coaching than anything else this off-season.

It’s coming. Hendricks to Houston for Abreu.

I like the first part, but to hang the credit for a WS title on a single player doesn’t bode well. To win a WS, you need all active members of the team pulling just as hard. Maybe a bonus for MVP, or WS MVP, but the title is the team’s accomplishment.

Exactly!! It’s hard not to cling to any hope you have when you have little actual hope!

True...but how often do you see a superstar make or break a team in the first year he's on that team? It usually takes a couple of years for everything to click...the new face of the franchise to click. Signing him now burns that "wind-up" year before the official window hits. You make that happen in the year Eloy comes up and hopefully rakes, then maybe you have an outside shot at stealing a post-season birth from someone and REALLY jump starting things. That's why it wasn't the who as much as the now in this particular situation for us. Also...no offense to any other top FA that is actually obtainable, but there aren't many faces like Harper's. There will be other studs available, but Arenado seems likely to re-sign, Trout will cost a billion dollars, there's pitchers but those usually settle with top contending teams, and by the time the future rolls around, all the big money teams will be in the mix for the top available FAs and that's when it will be make or break time for us. It's the NOW factor that ruled the moment for the White Sox this off season--they controlled their own fate. If they fail on Harper, they will have to get very lucky somehow to have all the elements align like they are now.

It's not. However it was a great way to jump start that process and add several "WAR" at one time, without it costing prospects. So you keep your depth and you keep your prospects and only pay from what the surplus is...cash. Since we are so low, it would provide us with a nice safety net should 1 or more of out big prospects fall off (likely). Obviously it would be great if all the prospects take off and perform as we believe they can, but you grab a superstar to give you some insurance, and to put a face to the process--give the fans something they can get behind and stay interested in until the winning comes along. It also gives the young players some reason to believe...wow that's Bryce Harper in the locker next to me. This is for real--this is going to happen--people in the organization believe in this process enough to go sign a monster contract.

This is some great original dumpster content here!! Who here didn't immediately picture the difference!?

In my opinion, the Santana signing is a good one. 4.6 WAR in 2017, 3.9 the year before that. He's had several years where he's hovered around the 3 mark. Using the $9M/1WAR equation that everyone has been using for Harper and Machado estimates, that should put him in line for a 27-41M/year salary. We got him for $4M--IF he makes the team.

Totally understand from a baseball perspective! But now...let's say it's a business first game 2nd. Would you pay an "employee" to provide say a more reasonable $175M worth of value over 10 years for his baseball contributions, then give him an additional $150M over the next 10 years to generate a half a billion dollars for you over the next 10-years through other non-baseball related "sales" activity?

Yeah I mean, we're still fielding a team with the likes of Adam Engel, Daniel Palka, Yolmer Sanchez, Yonder Alonso, Nicky Delmonico, James McCann, Leury Garcia, Jose Rondon...the small uptick in Machado's baseball numbers over Harper's might not really translate to more wins... BUT a Bryce Harper signing would possibly convince more people to actually come watch a team who fields players like Adam Engel, Daniel Palka, Yolmer Sanchez, Yonder Alonso, Nicky Delmonico, James McCann, Leury Garcia, Jose Rondon... Maybe with that money we could go out and buy A pitcher.

Honestly, at this current moment in time, the argument of who's better is irrelevant because Manny is no longer available. Since we missed on Manny, we're in a much different position as a franchise--a position that NEEDS Harper more than ever. We're now in a position of missing out on a star in a once in a lifetime market sans all the powerhouse teams. If we DON'T get Harper, we could be facing a situation where the only shot we have at a superstar is developing one. I don't like our chances...our player development is low and we won't have any fans coming to games to generate revenue.

While signing a top free agent can put a team over the top, literally signing your team's core through free agency historically fails more times than not. Remember the Marlins' Reyes, Buehrle, Heath Bell signings? Lost 93 games that year. How about the Angels spending over $310M on Pujols and CJ Wilson (The top SP on the market that off-season)? One post-season appearance since. We all thought the Yankees were dynasty contenders after they spent nearly $400M on Tanaka, Ellsbury and McCann in 2013. Still hasn't led them to the promise land. OH...and Melky, Robertson, Samardzija (trade) kinda goes without saying around these parts.....

As evident by their astounding record of success over the years..........I think only the Marlins have spent more and won less.

2 things...an observation and a question. Observation: Again...I believe this is 99% moot, but I think right now we have a rare situation with Bryce Harper. This might be a case where you ask yourself...Bryce Harper isn't a $350M baseball player, but how much is he worth to THIS franchise right now given the events of the last week? Bid accordingly. Question: Hearing a lot about the "seat at the table" jargon. I guess I was unaware that it was an accomplishment to have a seat at the table. Is it a common thing for free agents to deny meeting with teams who declare their interest in paying them millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars? Is there ANY sort of element of accomplishment that one has by securing a "seat at the table?" I would think there aren't many MLB teams right now that are in a more lowly state as we are, but we had a "seat at the table" with these guys. Would think that would come down to a simple phone call and a Outlook calendar appointment setup, but maybe I'm wrong.

Yep...we need to be Philly's San Diego.

I agree. They HAVE to know. Most would agree they knew prior to going into this off-season.

They valued a superstar enough to meet with Harper and keep continued communications going all winter, then go all in for Manny...they obviously are sold on the idea of speeding up the rebuild--even if their plan fell short. I think these guys really worked hard on Manny. I think the work they put in was enough to get him, but the guaranteed money wasn't. They spent the winter getting their roster and their payroll ready for a superstar, they just thought it would be Manny. They didn't have a hard number of what would get it done for Manny till the very end. Now they have an idea of where to start for Harper. They can more accurately weigh this cost to stop the bleeding and Harper would go a longer way in making all that money back for Jerry than Manny. Plus...the money they were willing to shell out for Manny was up to $350M. If they offer that same amount that Jerry OK'd for Manny straight up for Harper--all guaranteed, they might get him?

Honestly, I agree with you. I think they SHOULD be out at the price he's asking. I don't think he's that good of a player. But the shock-wave that went through this organization from top to bottom on Tuesday afternoon changed a lot of things. It might not automatically transfer to Jerry's wallet opening wider and giving in to sign Harper, but it certainly forced the issue on self-evaluation and may have redefined their expectations a little. Also...one thing about our FO...they are arrogant. Especially Kenny and Jerry. They have heard outrage from fans for years and they are used to that...but they were embarrassed on a global scale on Tuesday and things are in a real-life legitimate tailspin. Sometimes that's what it takes to force a change. It's looking like if anything got done (less than 1% chance), it would be a panic move, and those are the worst...but... Scott Boras should call up Jerry right now and ask him 1 question: How much is the opportunity worth to make Tuesday and its ramifications on the franchise for the next several years go away??

Oh you know it. The whole reason why he's not signed yet is because he was waiting for Machado to go first so he could go over that with Bryce. I actually think he got lucky that Manny reached the $300M mark. It was looking like $260M-280M range is where it would top out there for a while. Now he can start the bidding at $300M.

I think he'll be in a lineup on opening day...someone will pay the ransom. Might be a little lower than Boras expects but I think a deal will be done without Harper missing any game action. He might miss some spring games, but I bet a player like Harper will want to get some spring time in to "get right" before the season starts.

He's been very good when dealing with the team's assets. (Biggest hiccup was moving Tatis for Shields, but what many don't remember is that the team was off to a VERY strong start and felt it was unsustainable without another SP. He made a deal--which at the time looked like a buy-low on Shields who was some Coup time away from being a strong contributor, it just didn't work out). But he's made some nice trades and more importantly, negotiated several team-friendly contracts that have added additional value to those players' trade return. His shortcomings revolve around the budget restrictions he's been given to work with. In other words, Jerry. It's Jerry who I imagine is a GREAT person to work for but with his history on spending and activist stance on many Free Agent-related issues, it's a tough roadblock for Hahn. For Hahn and Kenny Williams' sake, they both did their job of convincing Jerry to blow away his limit for Machado--which I believe was right at that $250M guaranteed. Both he and Kenny stated that in their comments about "Jerry stepping up." Bottom line is...Rick Hahn has had to navigate a franchise with one of the lowest attendance records in MLB, and a tight-wad owner. In many cases, he (and Kenny) have been forced to "get creative" on ways to build the on-field MLB product and it often shows. In that regard, you have to consider his ability to even convince Jerry to scrap/rebuild as a major win as well--breaking the broken pattern of plug and play moves. NOW...I think the Machado situation is a MAJOR blow to the organization--not as much from a standpoint of us not winning the bid, but for what type of thinking has taken place afterwards. I see red flags looking into some of the comments Hahn has made since the Machado signing..."the money will be spent," "there are still players we want to sign." All those comments point to the OLD, BROKEN way of fielding a team. You MISS on your 2-year plan FA target, and automatically default to the plug and play cycle of "who's left available" on the scrap heap pile and let's just get them. All this while we have already filled 2 roster positions with plug and play type vets Alonso and Jay. I guess I'd like to hear more along the lines of "we had an opportunity to speed up the rebuild, it didn't happen, so we are going to switch gears and stick with our original timeline and continue to plan accordingly." I'd like to see AT LEAST Alonso on the move soon, (did you all see the comment by Alex Cora when he referenced the Sox signing Alonso and Jay as something that "wasn't going to work to get Machado, but at least Jay was a good player?!?" Yikes!) I think it's important to move him for 2 reasons: 1. he doesn't really belong on this team and we could use his roster spot, and 2. he reminds the world of our failure. I'd also like to see them back to flip mode on Colome and Herrera. I guess how he gets through the recent failure will help to define Hahn for me. Can he leverage it? Can he use it to motivate? Can he overachieve because of it?

Well said. I think the mistake was not upping the offer unless they had to--falling back too much on JD Martinez's situation to apply to all FA's in his position. When they were thinking "let's not bid against ourselves" they failed to see the logic in the reality of the situation being: Their offer was not good enough for Machado to accept. They should not have thought that Machado would come around to taking a lower offer because JD Martinez did. Forget ALL the rumors of other teams getting involved...at that time they realized..."hmmm...our offer has been out there for a while and he's still not accepted it," they should have "bid against themselves" NOT because they wanted to pay more than they needed to, but simply because their current bid was not good enough to close the deal and something better was. The lack of acceptance on Machado's part should have prompted further movement from the Sox and not their "patient" dependency on a philosophical conclusion drawn from JD Martinez's choice last year.

Sign Harper to 10/375 and trade him to SD for Machado and Tatis.