turnin' two

Yup. That is Ivan Nova and Jon Jay right there. I would say though, that if he is saying he is seeking 3/50, that doesn't seem like an unreasonable starting point for his camp to say they are seeking.

No one is blindly pessimistic. As you said, the Sox have earned it. I don't see any reason to expect the Sox to act like a big boy franchise. It was nothing but optimism last year. Then not only did they miss, but they ran around spewing the nonsense that they thought they had the best offer, which smacked of incompetence. That does not inspire confidence. All I know to expect this offseason is the Sox trading more bonus pool money away to teams that want to build a better organization.

Julio Teheran had his option declined by the Braves. He is a guy that isn't a TOR guy, but another guy that would fit into the middle of a rotation. He is younger than Wheeler, and has been a workhorse throughout his career. Overall he has better numbers than Wheeler, though Wheeler has been better the last 2 seasons, Teheran could be another viable candidate for a mid/back rotation guy. Certainly an upgrade over the guys the Sox have had, and will likely be at the budget shopping level comfortable for the Sox.

Ok, that's not really the point is it. Who?

It depends on their contract. JD has 5, Strasburg has 3.

Assuming that guys like Robert, Cease, Kopech, Madrigal and Vaughn aren't available, who are the guys that have so much value?

I didn't see that, but there was an article saying just about the same thing right near the end of the season.

He started 74 games against RH starters. To say he was being platooned is disingenuous. And to Cali's point, his numbers were better across his entire slash line against RHP than LHP.

So they could win 80 but no chance they win 81?

That is completely fair.

So 500 PAs in platooning him? Seems pretty regular. I mean, granted I didn't watch a ton of Rays games, but that seems like everyday ABs. Onlly 3 guys on the Rays had more. And he had exactly 2 bWAR... but that is splitting hairs. Is this also conceding that the Sox aren't smart enough to platoon him? And yeah, 6.2 WAR for his career, but 6.1 of it over his last 3 seasons. He isn't perfect, and not the best player, but he is certainly an upgrade. That said, I don't think there is any chance it happens. Sorry, I guess I just wish I could be as smart as you are.

What are they?

I get that people don't like Avi, but the simple fact is that he is a major upgrade over what the Sox trotted out this season, and he is far from the worst option available. He also just played a pretty significant role on a playoff team. While he isn't a perfect player, he hit 25 2B and 20 HR last year with an OPS just about .800. If you are dismissing that guy because of a previous bias, that is foolish. By both bWAR and fWAR, Avi was about a 2 WAR player last season. Are you trying to tell me the Sox don't have room for that? I'd love to hear the explanation.

I wonder if Clint Frazier is a trade candidate as well...

As much as the logic of spending that much holds, I have a hard time seeing the Sox more than double their payroll. While at this time last year, I was making the case as to why that number made sense, right now, I don't have faith that the Sox will get there.

Love this idea. I've been on the Moose train for the past 2 offseasons, to be honest, kind of forgot about him in this year's conversation. His OBP is what it is, but he is also a solid be to hit 60 XBH, LH bat, can play a couple of positions passably. I'm in on him for sure.

I saw at least one article that said the Cards may not want Ozuna back because of his defensive liabilities. Continuing to look at our friends in St. Louis, Jose Martinez may be a decent DH target if all else fails.

Couldn't you say all those things about Strasburg?

I can't see the Sox paying for Strasburg or Cole. I'm not in love with Wheeler and his 1.3 WHIP and pedestrian ERA, though he is certainly an upgrade, I honestly don't understand all the love for him. Ryu maybe a good target. A bit older and injury concerns, thought that may keep his price down. His results have been nothing short of great. I think he or Keuchel are much more realistic targets. Though who knows, maybe the Dodgers decide they want to keep him, then he all of a sudden becomes very expensive.

Yeah, you're right, they were principles that helped him sell more shoes. Likely shoes made in a sweatshop in China.

As he should. I am shocked at how the NBA is bending over backward to support the Chinese government. It is amazing how all principles take a back seat when all of a sudden they could cost you some money.

I wasn't really aware I was arguing anything.

I don't know. The Sox are clearly not a win at all costs franchise. That means their objective is not solely winning, which means that other objectives come into play, and could very well be more important. If the Sox had a mission statement, I don't think it would include "being the best team" Or "winning championships". It would be more like, "We hope to every now and then field a nice team that makes a run, but we must observe the tenants of running our organization as a business first, and as a winner next. We prize loyalty above all else."

I meant more because of this... Edit: Sorry, I'm not sure if this is hitting the political boundaries. From an entertainment perspective, the NBA is stepping in it right now all over the place. That is what drew me to the story.