GenericUserName

If it were up to me, I would send Tim to AA. Birmingham is only about an hour from his hometown of Tuscaloosa and three hours from Decatur, Mississippi where he went to college. I'd let him get around the family and friends that he has there and also let his maybe exorcise some of the demons of what happened to his friend. It might also help to see his friend's family; I know he said he is the god father to his late friend's daughter, so checking in on them might help relax him as well as help him grieve. It would also hopefully get him out of the public eye for a little bit so he can concentrate on the process of improving rather than worrying about the results. Hell, I might go so far as to not make him travel for every series and instead get him some personal coaches to work with him while also giving him more time away from the hectic schedule of the game. I'd probably leave him there for the rest of the AA season and call him back up when the rosters expand, but most importantly to let him know that this is the plan and that we're hoping to help him and that we're not giving up on him.

I'm all for trading for Stanton, but only because he's probably going to be traded for absolutely zero top prospects. From every report so far, no team is willing to give up anything of value for him. Hell, the Phillies basically asked for Yelich in order to take on the contract! Again, I like Stanton and I'm not against adding his salary because I'm not confident we are going to get a Harper or Machado, but not if we have to give up basically any of the high end talent we acquired. I would rather have the depth of potentially good talent over one guy.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) MLB is a business in which the owner's goal is to make money, don't lose sight of that. When Hahn can save his boss about $20 million after shelling out $50+ for Robert it really helps lessen the sting. Hahn stated twice in the press conference about how the Yankees paying the entire salaries of Frazier/Kahnle/Robertson did play a factor. Was it the only factor? No, but a factor nonetheless. As fans we sometimes lose sight that ownership can only stomach spending so much money before it stops making sense. $20 million is considerable savings in this case. If he did say that and no other team was going to take Robertson or Frazier without us retaining money I'll start looking at the trade differently. It would explain why I think the trade was weak, because the excess value we gave up went towards the Yankees taking more money, which effectively makes the trade Robertson/Kahnle/Frazier for Rutherford/Clarkin/Polo/Clippard (or whatever we can trade him for)/one quarter of Luis Robert.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) Saving $20 million was absolutely a big factor in this trade. Sox shelled out $50+ for Robert, so saving $20 makes that more palatable to ownership I am sure. This is a business after all. I don't understand how this is a factor in making this trade happen. It absolutely is a reason for why we were going to trade them, but it doesn't matter in terms of making this trade versus making a different trade.

1) Moncada 2B 2) Jimenez OF 3) Kopech RHP 4) Robert OF 5) Giolito RHP 6) Lopez RHP 7) Rutherford OF 8) Cease RHP 9) Burdi RHP 10) Collins C 11) Burger 3B 12) Hansen RHP 13) Dunning RHP 14) Stephens RHP 15) Adams RHP 16) Sheets 1B 17) Fulmer RHP 18) Clarkin LHP 19) Bummer LHP 20) Basabe OF 21) Call OF 22) Flores LHP 23) Fisher OF 24) Adolfo OF 25) Mendick MIF 26) Nunez SS 27) Diaz RHP 28) Peter INF 29) Michalczewski 3B 30) Skoug C

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:43 AM) But there is not as much control left on Kahnle, and if he's dealt next deadline it would be as a rental. Also, if there is one thing the White Sox have in spades it's right handers with explosive stuff. They are in a pretty good position to replace Kahnle without ever noticing hes gone. Did you mean Robertson who is a free agent after next year?

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) Perhaps and that's sorta along the lines of what I sense. But to hear he totally dominates when he is locked in tells me the potential is there....potential to be a legit ML arm or potential to be assistant coach at PoDunk High School as gym teacher. If your definition of a high reward is being a ML starter, then I can't disagree that he does have that upside. I guess personally for the high amount of risk involved with someone who has spent four years in A ball and is a injury liability I would want a greater upside.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Maybe you should stop posting here then. I highly doubt you're smarter than everyone else here, because you seem like ignore the facts on how much value relievers have in trade deadlines or FA market in the past few years. One trade with the A's does not change the market. Neither Doolittle or Madson has closer experience like Robertson, and they aren't as dominant as Kahnle. They should rightfully go for less. To add on, most analysts seem to agree that the A's didn't get enough back and that it was a bad deal for them. So just like you cannot expect a repeat of the Chapman trade or the Shelby Miller trade because they were abnormally high, that trade should not be used as a baseline because it seems abnormally low.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:30 AM) "He sucks and will be a bust and was totally worth one of the top 50 prospects in the game". 1. How is that different than the "Haha, we got those idiots. The guy we gave up is a bust and the guy we got is awesome." 2. So the value of Robertson and Frazier, both of whome other teams wanted, was Clarkin, Polo, and having to take on Clippard?

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) Perfect example of high risk/high reward kid. If he stays healthy and is coached up you may have a legit middle rotation starter with this one. OR, we'll never hear from him after today. 14) Ian Clarkin, LHP, Grade B-/C+: Age 21, posted 3.31 ERA in 98 innings in High-A with 72/30 K/BB; missed last six weeks of the season with torn knee meniscus; missed all of 2015 with elbow problems; when healthy shows low-90s fastball, above-average change-up and two different breaking pitches; can dominate when his command is on but injury time has slowed his development to some extent; could get buried in this system if health problems continue. ETA 2019. From everything I read about him it seems more like high risk/cieling-of-a-#4-starter reward.

Do people realize they are doing to Kahnle what we hate other fanbases for doing to their prospects after they are traded? Acting like he sucks and will be a bust even though there have been multiple articles about how Kahnle is one of the best relievers in the game.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:13 AM) Yeah this is how I feel. Frazier I expected nothing. And quite honestly the robo/kahnle for Rutherford doesn't seem insane, it's just I worry about putting our hat on Rutherford as that guy. Had we been the ones responsible for getting them below luxury tax, I think we could have gotten a more interesting player. Not to mention they are also up against a 40 man roster crunch in the offseason so they need to unload some guys or risk losing them. Maybe Cashman can't manage to do that and we steal a guy. That might make me like this trade a little more.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:06 AM) Complete hard stop for those who thought we could get Robles for these 3. That is complete fantasy land. That isn't reality and you certainly can't use that to say we got a lesser prospect in Rutherford. If you read and comprehended my response you will understand that I was not using it to say we got a lesser prospect. I was using that example to say that trading 3 ML players for 1 minor leaguer is an overpay and that most people agreed upon this point. But then a few days later people were okay with a 3 for 1 plus a couple lotto tickets. And the 1 wasn't even as good of a 1.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:00 AM) Of course we always want more, but the Yankees absorbing Robertson's entire contract I'm sure played into the negotiations. I'm sure we offered to take on salary for a better prospect return, but the Yankees were probably not willing to give up more. Each side has to view the deal as fair to them, and we ended up getting a solid overall package. Sox fans should be thrilled. We did take on salary. Its name is Tyler Clippard.

QUOTE (GermanSock @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:33 AM) It mostly was 3 for 1 but consider how good of a prospect rutherford is. The system was already so good that the sox could afford to shoot for the one last blue chip guy instead of depth. The secondary pieces could have been better and maybe they even could have gotten 2 top 100 prospects but a top30 guy is very different from a top80 guy. The latter projects to be an average regular and a top30 projects to be a borderline all star. The sox need upside and they got it. I mwan most of the sale was already completed and we were hoping for guys like kienboom and lesser prospects like omickey. Now they got a little less depth but would anyone have thought we get a guy like rutherford? You usually don't get such a guy unless you trade a top player and to get him the sox had to bundle their resources and take a hit on the secondary pieces. Yeah maybe you get more if you sell kahnle separately but then you don't get a top 30 prospect unless you wait 3 years and then kahnle is the best closer in baseball. And this is probably the biggest point of contention with the people that think we won the trade and those that think we lost. So much of the analysis of Rutherford relies upon the fact that he has a "fantastic swing" that will allow him to hit. Except now in full season ball he is hitting for an unremarkable average, doesn't walk at a particularly high clip, and has shown even less power than he did last year. That seems like a guy who is only ranked highly off hype and small samples. If this deal had instead been centered around Clint Frazier or Dustin Fowler OR if it had included one more piece such as Mateo (maybe a bit much), Florial instead of Polo, or even just added Estrada, who is one of the guys with the 40 man roster crunch, I would have been happy. Before the trade came out I liked that we were trading with the Yankees over the Red Sox because I didn't really like anyone that we could get in the Boston system while I liked everyone in the Yankees system except one.... and that was the one we decided to center the deal for our last big trade chips around.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:24 AM) Irrelevant to most fans? Probably, but it makes business sense for the Sox to save roughly $20 million for a rebuilding club. I can guarantee you Hahn shopped Robertson and Kahnle on their own and was not thrilled with the offers. A rebuilding club should always be trading relievers due to their volatility as I have stated many times. We will not miss any of the players we just traded, especially by the time we are ready to compete. But what I'm saying is that we were to get rid of that salary anyway in any trade for him so that should not be a positive of this trade relative to other trade options.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 08:12 AM) You are overvaluing what we just traded. 1) Frazier is a pure rental and not worth much in a deal on his own 2) Robertson is a fairly high priced closer on a team with no use for him. Nice to get that salary off of our books. 3) Kahnle has had 3 months of good production, but the track record does not back it up. Could it be a full breakout? Sure, but given what happened to Jones I'm not sure we want to try and get greedy. "Hogs get fat, pigs get slaughtered" This point is completely irrelevant. First, I believe most people would agree that Robertson is highly priced, it is a fair price when looking at the markert for closers. Secondly, we were going to trade him, so the value of getting his salary off the books is the same for any trade we would make where we didn't take money. Except we did have to take money in the form of Clippard.

Here is what I don't get right now: people were throwing around trade ideas of packaging Robertson & Kahnle and a third piece for Robles straight up and everyone said that was crazy and we would never do that. Instead we get a lesser prospect and two lotto tickets and suddenly everyone loves it? This whole deal basically revolves around Rutherford now. I feel like the only way we can win this trade is if Rutherford hits his cieling AND Kahnle regresses to an average ML pitcher or one of the lotto tickets becomes a good player or we are able to flip Clippard for something of value.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:30 PM) Clarkin is not nothing. We needed a solid left handed prospect for our system. Maybe not, but he is seemingly made of glass and has gone over 75 innings exactly once. And even when he does pitch it doesn't seem overwhelming. His upside is described as a #4. So combining the inherent prospect risk with the fact thats hes still only in A ball and that he has an extensive injury history. it seems like a ton of risk with a minimal upside for the second piece of this trade. And we have to get him on the 40 man by next year and keep him there for what, 3 years while he develops and can hopefully add innings.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 11:24 PM) Hahn seemed to feel like Rutherford could stick at CF Yeah, because it seems that they put very little value on defense. Quite literally, of all the fielding prospects we have gotten in the rebuilt, how many have been described as good defenders? Basically zero. How many have been described as needing work or may have to be moved to a different position? Basically all of them.

Normally I don't like to be a downer, but I really dislike this trade. When we have been talking about getting Kieboom or Soto for Robertson and how good Kahnle has become plus he is controllable for three more years, I feel like the only real piece we got was Rutherford. Hell, we had to take on Clippard!!! Rutherford seems like a glorified Jameson Fisher to me and I'm not a fan. Both those guys are rated highly because they are supposed to have natural hitting ability and nice swings, but the results aren't any better than guys with average hitting ability. And that might be fine if they had other skills that could add value, but they don't have speed that can be useful in the majors, are below average defenders, and have week arms. And Hahn saying he could play CF! But Rutherford is supposed to have power right? Except he has 2 home runs this season. If Rutherford wasn't highly rated going into the draft because he crushed guys year younger than him I definitely think he would be outside the top 100. I feel like this is buying high on Rutherford and selling low on Kahnle. Why take this trade two weeks before the deadline?! I hope I'm wrong, but this is the first time I'm down on a prospect, and this is probably our last trade that can add high end talent and I feel like we missed out. ***Deep breath*** Rant over.

QUOTE (Soha @ Jul 18, 2017 -> 10:25 PM) Nah, you'd never get Rutherford for D Rob. Not even close. I'm pretty down on Rutherford too which is why I think without a good last prospect that this deal is pretty weak. Its honestly the first deal I don't like.

I think we are going to keep Kahnle because so far it seems that Hahn is willing to take risks and keep players if he does not get a return he thinks is suitable and I can't see any team paying for his current production with any regression. It worked out in big ways twice already with Sale traded in the offseason instead of at the previous trade deadline and Q being traded now instead of in the offseason, plus it seems like it will work out with a potential Robertson deal. On the other hand, Nate Jones is done for the year and who knows if any team will be willing to give up anything of substance for him once he's healthy. But either way Hahn has shown he is not risk averse and the difference between the potential payoff and the value we can probably get now is probably large enough that he'll take the chance and hold Kahnle.

1) Moncada - Similar potential to Jimenez but closer to the majors and with good speed 2) Jimenez - Potentially special hit/power combo 3) Kopech - Ace potential and looks more and more like he will be a starter 4) Robert - Huge potential but still hasn't faced higher level competition, so all projection right now 5) Giolito - Not the same can't miss prospect, but seems to have progressed at AAA and should be atleast a quality starter 6) Lopez - Similar to Giolito, but I like Giolito's secondary pitches more 7) Cease - Potentially great fastball/curve combo, but has concerns both about durability (post TJS) and 3rd pitch development, so may be a reliever 8) Dunning - Good three pitch mix and has looked good in A ball, but as a college guy I think AA will be the real test 9) Diaz - You can't teach 100mph, and I trust our ability to develop a flame-throwing reliever more than a toolshed hitter 10) Basabe - Toolshed missing a hit tool that could make all the other tools useless 11) Flete - Old for his level, but has generally had strong OBPs, so if he can be good defensively there might be some potential 12) Rose - Low averaged, power hitting corner infielder who is a lottery ticket with Joey Gallo upside?

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 12:44 AM) One thing that concerns me now...the press has universally been praising Hahn for his last 3 trades and the returns he's gotten...and I'm thinking Rizzo (who's still probably a little butthurt)...but Rizzo or any GM might be a little leery being "the next GM" to get fleeced by Hahn. Ricky has done a masterful job with this rebuild so far for sure...but I'm almost thinking we're not getting what we want for Robertson unless it's a nice package that includes more than just DRob. I feel like this last trade was different than the first two because hearing people talk about it on the news it seemed like they thought it was a fair trade, not to mention how many Cubs fans think they won the trade, and the common person will probably think it went the Cubs way in a few weeks if they start turning it around. Rizzo might still have his head spinning from that Eaton trade, but I don't think this Quintana trade made it any less likely we will trade with the Nats.