Kyyle23 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 @write sox David Robertson in 2 games against KC (5/28) and SEA (6/18): 1.1 IP, 10 ER, 67.50 ERA In other 34 games: 35.2 IP, 7 ER, 1.77 ERA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) @write sox David Robertson in 2 games against KC (5/28) and SEA (6/18): 1.1 IP, 10 ER, 67.50 ERA In other 34 games: 35.2 IP, 7 ER, 1.77 ERA Basically he had a hiccup yesterday. It just sucks because the team really needed that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) I'm not sure a team's market determines whether $46M is spent on a closer. Isn't it more about the competitive state of that team or who is capable on their roster (no matter what their salary is)? For example...Philly is one of the larger markets but they do not have a $46M closer because they aren't that good. Many big market teams do have an expensive closer because their team warrants one. But many large market teams don't--K-Rod is $3.5M in Detroit, Harris is 514K for Houston, Mauer is the minimum in SD. Let's not forget everybody's favorite Cubs--$544K for Rondon. Market may be an independent variable to closer cost. The Sox payroll is fine...higher than several contenders. Rodon, I believe, was a Rule 5 guy. Hahn has picked up a lot of relievers off the scrap heap,, but only Putnam has shown any ability - most have a similar profile - throw hard, no command. There's certainly a lot of luck with a guy like Rodon....but objectivity, flexibility, open-mindedness and, most of all good eyes for talent put you in a place that you will get some luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) They are not a big market franchise. They are really a medium market and the Cubs are a big market. It should be the other way around…. the franchise had an opportunity to grab the market in this town after 2005… the Sox have a potentially much larger geographic area in which to tap a fan base….City of Chicago, West burbs, SW burbs, South burbs, downstate to an extent. NW Indiana and SW Mich… The Sox direct competition in this town is a franchise whose claim to fame is a "lovable loser"… The organization has nothing to blame but itself…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:34 PM) Basically he had a hiccup yesterday. It just sucks because the team really needed that game. The walk off was a tomahawk swing at a high and inside fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) @write sox David Robertson in 2 games against KC (5/28) and SEA (6/18): 1.1 IP, 10 ER, 67.50 ERA In other 34 games: 35.2 IP, 7 ER, 1.77 ERA Robertson still has a lot of season to define his success level this year. Last night was really bad because after getting swept by the Angels that game was important for teams confidence moving forward. He still could have a solid season... The initial title and bravado of this thread was that Robertson was a "Fantastic" closer and that we should all shut up. I think that is debatable and TBD. Edited July 19, 2016 by harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (harkness @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 06:05 PM) Robertson still has a lot of season to define his success level this year. Last night was really bad because after getting swept by the Angels that game was important for teams confidence moving forward. He still could have a solid season... The initial title and bravado of this thread was that Robertson was a "Fantastic" closer and that we should all shut up. I think that is debatable and TBD. He will have a solid season. The problem is, he's the 3rd highest paid closer in baseball. For that either you want a fantastic season or you want a playoff birth where he's a key figure in it. Barring that, when he does something bad, which happens in a "solid" season, people are going to be angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) Isn't spending $46 million on a closer a big market move? I see your point, but even with DR's $11 M in 2016, the Sox are still middle of the pack payroll-wise.. The issue isn't payroll… Your GM has a public feud with your manager, the organization is embarrassed.. then said GM gets bumped upstairs, after nearly plunging the franchise into the dark ages.. creating a mess for his subordinate to fix… are the Sox going to rebuild? go for it? who's the real GM? Hahn? Kenny? Does JR call the shots? who makes the pitching moves? Ventura? Cooper? what about the "3 yr plan"? Who's really responsible for the on field decisions? why isn't anyone accountable for performance in the Sox FO? how does the pitching coach get away with calling out the fans over the media? Bottom line, it all adds up to small market attendance and RCN TV ratings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) We were stupid for getting him work in a blowout game a couple weeks ago, now we're stupid for not getting him work in blowout games No you've got that one wrong. The reason people called it stupid is because the manager left the player in the game to give up 6-7? runs when it was clear by the 3rd run that the guy could not get anyone out that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 05:08 PM) He will have a solid season. The problem is, he's the 3rd highest paid closer in baseball. For that either you want a fantastic season or you want a playoff birth where he's a key figure in it. Barring that, when he does something bad, which happens in a "solid" season, people are going to be angry. Right I understand that sentiment for sure. 16 MLB pitchers had over a 90% save rate last year. Robertson is around 85% with us. That doesn't seem "fantastic" but maybe he will finish the season on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Or to put it another way. We have many people here who post, so different people have different opinions. One will say the Sox are stupid for letting him pitch in a blowout game and another will say the Sox are stupid for not letting him pitch in a blowout game. Not really any trend unless you can find the same person saying both things. The only trend is we have people who think differently. Not really a shocker since we are all thinking and emotional beings. Thank you. I'm getting tired of people taking the board's variety of opinions and then calling it hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 01:35 PM) We were stupid for getting him work in a blowout game a couple weeks ago, now we're stupid for not getting him work in blowout games Thank you for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) Basically he had a hiccup yesterday. It just sucks because the team really needed that game. Exactly. You can't fault a manager for putting in his closer to close out a 3-0 game. Things like this happen in baseball to every team and every closer once in a while. The problem is the way the Sox played against Atlanta and Anaheim, and most of the rest of this season. If the Sox would have taken the two series against the Braves and the Angels like they should have, yesterday's hiccup wouldn't be that big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Put him on the trade block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Was anyone warming up in Sox bullpen when Lind crushed that ball? Today's Managers are very reluctant to replace their closer when game is on the line and the closer is obviously struggling. Especially RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 05:35 PM) Thank you for this. I am a believe in putting in your closer when you are way behind but not when you are way ahead. I don't think Ventura necessarily made a bad decision last night.. Sale was losing it. I might have left him in for at least one batter (I believe two lefties were coming up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) I would definitely trade Robertson. I think he's actually really good. I just don't agree with paying relievers as much as he's being paid. I think they could get a good return for him, Jones or Burdi could get similar results, and the $$ could be spent elsewhere. They could get something for Duke as well. Mid market teams that haven't made the playoffs in 8 years shouldn't be paying closers $11 million per year. If other GM's think he is overpaid, then the return for him will be a low prospect since I don't see the Sox eating a large chunk of cash. If they just want to unload his salary, the return will be minimal. Edited July 19, 2016 by SCCWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Even after last night, I still think Robertson is in the upper echelon of closers. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. But it was a necessity the Sox needed at the time and it still is. If you remove last night's game and the game against KC he has elite numbers on the year. Closers make mistakes that can easily be amplified when the rest of the team is struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) If other GM's think he is overpaid, then the return for him will be a low prospect since I don't see the Sox eating a large chunk of cash. If they just want to unload his salary, the return will be minimal. Not every GM will think he's overpaid though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 04:34 PM) Thank you. I'm getting tired of people taking the board's variety of opinions and then calling it hypocritical. That's what I love about this board. You really get a well-rounded picture of how people feel about things--and thus how things truly are. Even the posts where someone seems off-based provide insight it their own way because it shows how people think. We disagree a lot but it's respectful and we take away another layer of understanding from it all. And you can tell that we all love this team even when we are so down on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 07:37 PM) Not every GM will think he's overpaid though. Which GMs would feel $11 million is a fair/equitable salary for Robertson...especially tacking on two more years of advance aging and accumulated usage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Advance aging? Apparently Caulfield thinks DRob is Benjamin Button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) If Robertson does in the next two years of his deal what he has done in the past two, he's pretty much lived up exactly to the market value of his contract. The thing with closers isn't that $11M is too much for one; a good one will definitely be worth that much. The problem is that relievers are so inconsistent year to year that the guys you can entrust a long term deal to are few and far between. There are very few guys out there like Robertson that have a pretty long track record of excellent pitching late in games and that's part of the reason he was able to get a long, lucrative deal. Many other closers come into the role and exit it before they are ever able to hit the free agent market. Edited July 20, 2016 by Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) If Robertson is overused: 1) His cutter degrades in velocity and movement, 2) He doesn't miss as many bats 3) If he doesn't get ahead, he's getting killed on that pitch pretty frequently, and 4) His control just hasn't been as sharp as the first part of the season. If you divided his season into two halves (so far), and took out that KC game debacle, you'd probably find that the number of 1-2-3 ninth innings was 2X-3X greater over those first 50% of games than his second 50%. Robertson needs to get ahead and throw more knuckle curves for K's. I still don't see the argument for a non-contending, 11th place out of 15 in the AL team to spend that much money closing games when they can use Nate Jones, get something useful back for Robertson, save $20+ million that could be utilized for improving the offense (should be the #1 priority) AND plug in some younger minor leaguers as well as Putnam/Petricka + one more veteran next year in their final "all-in" year before they have to make a crucial decision on Todd Frazier and Cabrera/Lawrie to lesser extents. Edited July 20, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insp Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 We need to keep Robertson to build around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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