David Robertson is a fantastic closer

[Hatchetman]

We just better hope he can put it back together because we are stuck with him unless he does. His velocity hasn't changed much over the years, so maybe he can be fixed.

[southsider2k5]

And Sale cost himself two starts by going crazy pants on the team.

 

Karma?

 

And I think David Robertson blew one of those saves immediately after getting over worked because of the Sale meltdown.

[captain54]

And Sale cost himself two starts by going crazy pants on the team.

 

Karma?

 

that's not the point of the discussion….

 

Robertson make $300 K less, than the top paid closer in MLB.. so he's very near being the top paid closer in MLB

 

He's tied with or a close second to # of blown saves

 

Conversely, Britton from the O's makes half as much and has 0 blown saves…

 

I have a problem with this.. and I can't tell whether you do as well, because you switched the topic of discussion..

 

You can't just write off every fan expression of displeasure as an irrational rant, or b****, or moan… the numbers are here in black and white that the Sox now have another problematic situation on their hands, to add to the myriad of problematic situations...

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

that's not the point of the discussion….

 

Robertson make $300 K less, than the top paid closer in MLB.. so he's very near being the top paid closer in MLB

 

He's tied with or a close second to # of blown saves

 

Conversely, Britton from the O's makes half as much and has 0 blown saves…

 

I have a problem with this.. and I can't tell whether you do as well, because you switched the topic of discussion..

 

You can't just write off every fan expression of displeasure as an irrational rant, or b****, or moan… the numbers are here in black and white that the Sox now have another problematic situation on their hands, to add to the myriad of problematic situations...

 

It is one when the blown saves was a direct result of Chris Sale's behavior.

[Quin]

that's not the point of the discussion….

 

Robertson make $300 K less, than the top paid closer in MLB.. so he's very near being the top paid closer in MLB

 

He's tied with or a close second to # of blown saves

 

Conversely, Britton from the O's makes half as much and has 0 blown saves…

 

I have a problem with this.. and I can't tell whether you do as well, because you switched the topic of discussion..

 

You can't just write off every fan expression of displeasure as an irrational rant, or b****, or moan… the numbers are here in black and white that the Sox now have another problematic situation on their hands, to add to the myriad of problematic situations...

 

Him costing Sale *specifically* wins wasn't the point of the discussion either.

[captain54]

Him costing Sale *specifically* wins wasn't the point of the discussion either.

 

Of course it was. The discussion is concerning Robertsons performance vs value.

 

You switched it up completely and brought up an entirely different issue involving Sale and the torn up uni's and missing a couple of starts.

 

This is hilarious. You guys are pretty forgiving when it comes to someone else not getting value for their $$$. My guess is that if it was coming out of your pocket, or you were somehow accountable, you'd be taking a walk over to the dark side with all the irrational ranters, whiners, moaners and chronically unsatisfied

 

Do you join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when you take your car in for a $5 k engine rebuild, and you break down not 20 minutes out of the shop, in rush hour on the Kennedy, bumper to bumper, in 95 degree temps?

Edited August 10, 2016 by captain54

[Quin]

Of course it was. The discussion is concerning Robertsons performance vs value.

 

You switched it up completely and brought up an entirely different issue involving Sale and the torn up uni's and missing a couple of starts.

 

This is hilarious. You guys are pretty forgiving when it comes to someone else not getting value for their $$$. My guess is that if it was coming out of your pocket, or you were somehow accountable, you'd be taking a walk over to the dark side with all the irrational ranters, whiners, moaners and chronically unsatisfied

 

Do you join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when you take your car in for a $5 k engine rebuild, and you break down not 20 minutes out of the shop, in rush hour on the Kennedy, bumper to bumper, in 95 degree temps?

 

Then why does it matter costing Sale wins vs. any other pitcher on the team?

[Harry Chappas]

Then why does it matter costing Sale wins vs. any other pitcher on the team?

 

Because Sale could have 20 wins and is going for the Cy Young.

 

I know SABR stats overshadow wins but it is still a used stat by mainstream fans for indicating success.

 

 

[Quin]

Because Sale could have 20 wins and is going for the Cy Young.

 

I know SABR stats overshadow wins but it is still a used stat by mainstream fans for indicating success.

 

So Robertson is a bad closer not because it's hurting the team in general, but Chris Sale's Cy Young chances.

 

My point is there was no real reason to bring Sale into this. Robertson has been disappointing this year, regardless of whose wins he's lost.

[Special K]

But it's been frustrating to see him blow the only bright spot we've had this season (Chris Sale's performance) and then pick a win for it. He's done that a few times this year. Once to Quintana this year. At the very least, I'd like to see Sale win the Cy Young since it's the only thing that will pique my interest. Robertson not helping that cause.

 

I find it so hard to believe Hahn couldn't find a suitor for him at the deadline...

[bmags]

So Robertson is a bad closer not because it's hurting the team in general, but Chris Sale's Cy Young chances.

 

My point is there was no real reason to bring Sale into this. Robertson has been disappointing this year, regardless of whose wins he's lost.

 

I don't know, rooting for a Cy Young for Sale is fun, and wins still matter there. All blown saves suck, but his have just been ruinous in a specifically demoralizing way for me as a fan. I watched yesterdays game and was enjoying myself and thought about going to another game before summer. And then the 9th. Robertson just has this role this year of like, specifically reminding us every time we get complacent that no, this season can't have nice things.

[southsider2k5]

Of course it was. The discussion is concerning Robertsons performance vs value.

 

You switched it up completely and brought up an entirely different issue involving Sale and the torn up uni's and missing a couple of starts.

 

This is hilarious. You guys are pretty forgiving when it comes to someone else not getting value for their $$. My guess is that if it was coming out of your pocket, or you were somehow accountable, you'd be taking a walk over to the dark side with all the irrational ranters, whiners, moaners and chronically unsatisfied

 

Do you join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when you take your car in for a $5 k engine rebuild, and you break down not 20 minutes out of the shop, in rush hour on the Kennedy, bumper to bumper, in 95 degree temps?

 

If you are anyone but Jerry Reinsdorf, this is a non sequitor.

[captain54]

So Robertson is a bad closer not because it's hurting the team in general, but Chris Sale's Cy Young chances.

 

My point is there was no real reason to bring Sale into this. Robertson has been disappointing this year, regardless of whose wins he's lost.

 

Robertson is not an elite closer.. He is paid to be an elite closer.. Blowing Sale's chance at a CY is just another dimension to his suckage…

 

I have a question and I'm trying to ask it in a way that's not confrontational (which really doesn't matter because I'll be confronted either way)

 

You've already stated that Robertson has been disappointing.. the numbers are there as plain as day that he's terrible bang for the buck… Sure, Robertson is accountable, but sure as hell.. the powers that be that signed him should be accountable, as well as on-field personnel associated in some degree with his success or failure…

 

I get that you and those like you, are probably sick of the constant moaning and groaning … I'm a skeptic and not of fan of JR and Co, and its gets old for me too…

 

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the tone of your responses seem to directly refute any negative discussion concerning Robertson… Is this just because you will fight to the death the negative forces that permeate the board? irregardless of whether or not their arguments make logical sense?

 

Now again, correct me if I'm wrong.. but refuting negative opinion and flying in the face of cold hard numbers that indicate facts, just for the sake of refuting negative opinion.. is as ridiculous as reading post after post of "fire Hahn" "JR needs to sell" "fire Ventura" "trade Abreu"!!!

[Eminor3rd]

Of course it was. The discussion is concerning Robertsons performance vs value.

 

You switched it up completely and brought up an entirely different issue involving Sale and the torn up uni's and missing a couple of starts.

 

This is hilarious. You guys are pretty forgiving when it comes to someone else not getting value for their $$$. My guess is that if it was coming out of your pocket, or you were somehow accountable, you'd be taking a walk over to the dark side with all the irrational ranters, whiners, moaners and chronically unsatisfied

 

Do you join hands and sing "Kumbaya" when you take your car in for a $5 k engine rebuild, and you break down not 20 minutes out of the shop, in rush hour on the Kennedy, bumper to bumper, in 95 degree temps?

 

Are you seriously evaluating a reliever's performance based on the amount of "pitcher wins" he adds or subtracts to from Chris Sale's total? Because that would be total nonsense, and Quinarvy's post is simply stating that.

[Dick Allen]

Kenley Jansen has a 1.29 ERA and strikes out about 12.5/9. Is he elite? He's blown 5 saves.

[captain54]

Are you seriously evaluating a reliever's performance based on the amount of "pitcher wins" he adds or subtracts to from Chris Sale's total? Because that would be total nonsense, and Quinarvy's post is simply stating that.

 

No I'm not seriously evaluating Robertson's performance based on the amount of "pitcher wins" he adds or subtracts from Sale's total...

 

If you'll read further back in the thread, I posted other numbers directly relating to where he stands in ERA, WHIP, Blown saves ,etc… But if you chose to cherry pick, like other's have... one supplemental comment I made about him responsible for a couple of Sales lost wins, and perform some magical verbal linguistics, as if that was my whole argument.. wow.. okay.. go run with it, man.. have fun...

Edited August 10, 2016 by captain54

[captain54]

Kenley Jansen has a 1.29 ERA and strikes out about 12.5/9. Is he elite? He's blown 5 saves.

 

The Dodgers are tied for first place, so apparently his blown saves don't matter.. since according to you blown saves only matter if you lose the game...

 

Kenley Jansen outperforms Robertson in practically every major stat relevant to a closer..

 

C'mon man.. I agree with a lot of what you say.. Don't go disappointing me...

[lasttriptotulsa]

So now blown saves are only significant if the team loses...not affecting the overall confidence of the team or starting pitchers in any way?

 

By that argument, Danny Wright was a highly valuable of the White Sox rotation when he won 14 games with a 5+ ERA in 2012.

 

You pay David Robertson elite money...you better get something close to that. And with a sub .500 team, he's irrevelant except for soaking up payroll dollars that should first go to catcher, DH and CF.

 

In 2002, not 2012 Dan Wright threw nearly 200 innings with a FIP- of 106 (just slightly worse than league average) and an xFIP- of 100 (right at league average). That was good for 1.7 fWAR. So yes, Dan Wright was a pretty valuable member of the 2002 Sox though it had nothing to with his win total.

Edited August 10, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[Dick Allen]

The Dodgers are tied for first place, so apparently his blown saves don't matter.. since according to you blown saves only matter if you lose the game...

 

Kenley Jansen outperforms Robertson in practically every major stat relevant to a closer..

 

C'mon man.. I agree with a lot of what you say.. Don't go disappointing me...

The bottom line isn't Chris Sale wins, it's White Sox wins. Yeah, Robertson has been a bit off more than usual this season, but a blown save isn't so bad if the team wins the game. They have won 4 of his 5 blown saves. They lost the KC game when he gave up 7 so really they have won every game but 2 where his performance mattered this season.

 

He hasn't been up to snuff. He would probably admit it. But it really hasn't done anything to the teams W-L record vs. what he would have to have been for most to say he's been elite this year.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

Are you seriously evaluating a reliever's performance based on the amount of "pitcher wins" he adds or subtracts to from Chris Sale's total? Because that would be total nonsense, and Quinarvy's post is simply stating that.

 

 

No I'm not seriously evaluating Robertson's performance based on the amount of "pitcher wins" he adds or subtracts from Sale's total...

 

If you'll read further back in the thread, I posted other numbers directly relating to where he stands in ERA, WHIP, Blown saves ,etc… But if you chose to cherry pick, like other's have... one supplemental comment I made about him responsible for a couple of Sales lost wins, and perform some magical verbal linguistics, as if that was my whole argument.. wow.. okay.. go run with it, man.. have fun...

 

Then why bring up Sale's win total?!

 

I agree that Robertson has definitely not been up to snuff this year.

[gosoxgo2005]

Didn't bother reading most of this thread, but I'm assuming people are pissed at Robertson for taking away from Sale's wins - even when he hasn't taken away from many team wins - because no one gives a s*** about the White Sox end of season record, but want still want Sale to win the Cy Young, and even though they shouldn't, wins matter for a pitcher in that realm.

[captain54]

Then why bring up Sale's win total?!

 

Because I'm a fan of the team and I unearth any relevant facts that may or may not shed light on how a player's performance fits into the total scheme of the season...

[captain54]

Didn't bother reading most of this thread, but I'm assuming people are pissed at Robertson for taking away from Sale's wins - even when he hasn't taken away from many team wins - because no one gives a s*** about the White Sox end of season record, but want still want Sale to win the Cy Young, and even though they shouldn't, wins matter for a pitcher in that realm.

 

It would probably help to read the other comments in the thread because that's not at all what the majority of the discussion has been about...

[harkness99]

Kenley Jansen has a 1.29 ERA and strikes out about 12.5/9. Is he elite? He's blown 5 saves.

 

Not sure if he is Elite... but he is better than Roberston (84% vs 88% career save plus a bunch of other meaningful stats)

 

Robertson isn't horrible.. but he sure as heck isn't "Fantastic"

 

 

I get that being a closer is a fickle game... but Robertson hasn't lived up to expectations.

Edited August 11, 2016 by harkness

[caulfield12]

Let's just put it this way.

 

If they (those in the front office) really and truly believe Robertson has been fantastic, then it's no surprise why we are mired in mediocrity.

 

So one has to logically assume Jones, Burdi and returns to health from at least one of Piutnam and Petricka are the real plan for next year...perhaps along with Fulmer.

 

What's not clear is why Robertson is still clogging up the payroll.