What to do at the Trade Deadline

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Hard pass on Gallo. The dude tries to homer on every swing and those kind of guys haven't panned out with us as of late

At all honestly

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I know it's sacrilege to suggest trading Sale but the Sox should at least listen to teams this offseason and see if some team can blow them away with an offer. I think Sale would bring back more than Q and the Sox have Q under contract for one more year than Sale. There's an argument to be made that if the Sox can get a haul for Sale, they can be contending again by no later than the 2018 season. On a personal note, fireball pitchers always scare me too. Sooner or later they seem to get injured and personally Q seems like a safer bet to avoid that type of injury.

 

If the Sox can get a combo of 5-6 mlb ready players and or high level prospects for Sale, it may solve a lot of their problems.

Sale is hardly a fireball pitcher. He tops out at 95 or 96 these days.

[hi8is]

Can the OP add a poll option of "poop" and mark me down for that?

Please.

[Boopa1219]

Hard pass on Gallo. The dude tries to homer on every swing and those kind of guys haven't panned out with us as of late

 

So just stop taking chances on 'those type of players' because that makes sense.

 

I don't get that logic, I know that Dunn and LaRoche didn't work out like we hoped but that doesnt mean that the Sox should stop taking chances of left handed power hitters.

[hi8is]

So just stop taking chances on 'those type of players' because that makes sense.

 

I don't get that logic, I know that Dunn and LaRoche didn't work out like we hoped but that doesnt mean that the Sox should stop taking chances of left handed power hitters.

"Taking a chance" is fine and dandy... Just not with someone who averages almost 250 strike outs per year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The Sox will sit on their hands and do nothing at the deadline just like last year. Remember that this is year 2 of some sort of 3 year plan. The Sox will try to retool again this offseason. This exact time next year we will be having this same conversation as the Sox again hover around 500. Stuck in baseball hell just like the other team that Jerry owns is stuck in basketball hell.

 

It always make me wonder if Hahn would just got some hits instead of misses on his moves things could've been much different.

 

Off the top of my head if they had gone after Fowler, Desmond and Daniel Murphy or even Murphy along with either Fowler or Desmond . Re tooling isn't a bad idea it's just bad when you have so many misses especially misses that ended up being fairly cheap moves the kind the Sox should to be good at since that's all they do.

[Kyyle23]

Abreu for Gallo straight up? FFS

[GreenSox]

It always make me wonder if Hahn would just got some hits instead of misses on his moves things could've been much different.

 

Off the top of my head if they had gone after Fowler, Desmond and Daniel Murphy or even Murphy along with either Fowler or Desmond . Re tooling isn't a bad idea it's just bad when you have so many misses especially misses that ended up being fairly cheap moves the kind the Sox should to be good at since that's all they do.

To be fair to Hahn, I don't know that he's really missed on anyone other than Laroche and his $1-$3 million utility players. But he hasn't hit any home runs either.

 

Duke is okay - had one really good year but he's pitching to his ability

Robertson is a tad disappointing- not a difference maker but usually good for the save

Melky was terrible last year, but this year he's been good....not unlike his prior few up/down seasons

Frazier is hitting his homers

Lawrie's been better than he was at Oak or Toronto; which isn't to say he's great, but acceptable.

Samardzija was disappointing but actually pitched to his career averages

Shields is settling down.

Laroche, of course, was an abomination on several levels

Bonificio, Beckham, Rollins, Turner and several others were bad uses of resources. Particularly Beckham, Rollins and Bonifacio

 

 

The problem is that those "pretty good" players weren't enough to resurrect a 73 win team to playoff contention. Had he gotten luck and hit a few homers, then perhaps things would be different. But you can't plan on luck. The other problem is that there was an opportunity cost to acquiring those decent veterans. Different players could have been acquired, the prospects could have been used for different players, and some of the prospects are proving to be good plaeyrs, with 6 years of control.

 

The good news is that the vets aren't terrible and they could be peddling for some interesting young players.

Edited July 21, 2016 by GreenSox

[Boopa1219]

"Taking a chance" is fine and dandy... Just not with someone who averages almost 250 strike outs per year.

 

I have no idea where you got 250 from.

 

Gallo is going to do three things at the big league level, he's going to walk, he's going to strike out and he's going to hit home runs. Let's not forget he has legit 80 power. Three-outcome players also have value.

 

I don't care if you strike out 150 times as long as you walk a lot and hit a s***-ton of home runs and last time I checked Gallo excels at both of those things.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

To be fair to Hahn, I don't know that he's really missed on anyone other than Laroche and his $1-$3 million utility players. But he hasn't hit any home runs either.

 

Duke is okay - had one really good year but he's pitching to his ability

Robertson is a tad disappointing- not a difference maker but usually good for the save

Melky was terrible last year, but this year he's been good....not unlike his prior few up/down seasons

Frazier is hitting his homers

Lawrie's been better than he was at Oak or Toronto; which isn't to say he's great, but acceptable.

Samardzija was disappointing but actually pitched to his career averages

Shields is settling down.

Laroche, of course, was an abomination on several levels

Bonificio, Beckham, Rollins, Turner and several others were bad uses of resources. Particularly Beckham, Rollins and Bonifacio

 

 

The problem is that those "pretty good" players weren't enough to resurrect a 73 win team to playoff contention. Had he gotten luck and hit a few homers, then perhaps things would be different. But you can't plan on luck. The other problem is that there was an opportunity cost to acquiring those decent veterans. Different players could have been acquired, the prospects could have been used for different players, and some of the prospects are proving to be good plaeyrs, with 6 years of control.

 

The good news is that the vets aren't terrible and they could be peddling for some interesting young players.

Misses just aren't guys you sign but suck they are also guys you could've had fairly cheaply late in the off season but didn't sign.

 

Also most would consider Samardzija a huge miss considering how he performed and what we gave up for him.

[flavum]

Hopefully whatever they do from this point forward is with 2019 and beyond in mind. Punt on 2016-2018 as far as winning because it's not happening either way. Get a pool of young talent, get high draft picks and smart international signings the next few years, and be in a position for sustained winning at least by 2020.

 

If that means trading both Sale and Quintana right now, do it. It doesn't mean they have to trade them now, but Sale and Quintana are never pitching in the playoffs for the Sox. If/when they get a proposal that makes sense, move them and anyone else that isn't going to be part of the 2020 team.

[Onlinepole]

Why pay that much for a 36+ year old hill and with the market being crap next year hes probably going to get more then that. Rodon is cheaper and still under control for a while and younger.

 

Who in the sox system after trading rodon is capable of getting lucroy let alone anyone else extra

 

 

Rodon is cheap and under team control but he has not shown me much. What about Saladino and Garcia for Hill, Garcia is on almost everyone's exit list and Saladino will not be a starting position player for this team. Yeah next year's FA pitching class is not much but IMO the Sox have a better chance of resigning Hill if he's on the team for the 2nd half of the season expecially if he has a quality receiver to throw to in Lucroy.

 

WS have 2 ACE starters, most MLB rotations have none. Getting Hill to add to Sale & Rodon gives Hahn the flexibility to trade Quintana who is way under paid and should get the Sox at least 2 starting position players with good bats in return. Lucroy is a terrific Catcher with a quality bat and while Braun is on the wrong side of 30, he is still playing at a high level, maybe you ask for a 3rd player (prospect) from the Brewers. Add Lucroy and Braun to this lineup and it is much improved which will take some of the pressure off the pitching staff since they won't have to throw the perfect pitch all the time to win.

 

Trade for Hill and you have a Sale, Hill, Shields and Rodon rotation for the rest of this year; very solid. Remember also that lots of salary is coming off the payroll this offseason (Latos $3M, Rollins $2M, Rodriguez buy out $1M,likely Morneau $1M, Danks $15M plus the Sox have another $13M back early by 1 year because the DH who couldn't hit retired) that's $35M

 

That's $ that can be spent on Shields (if he decides to stay, if he opts out then the Sox have another $10M at least to spend) and/or Hill plus any talent they get in trade for Quintana.

 

This team needs postion players who can hit and trading Quintana the only way to get them besides trading Sale which is a non starter for me

[ChiSox59]

Just so everyone has a clear idea of the value of Quintana, Cole Hamels and Jake Diekman were traded last year for 3 top 100 prospects (Thompson, Williams, and Alfaro), a MLB starting pitcher (Harrison), and a solid young MLB starter (Eickhoff). Since Q has become a full-time starter, he's been worth 2 more fWAR than Hamels and would have an extra years worth of control. That is the baseline for a Q trade. If you want to talk Sale, better be ready to push all your chips into the center of the table. Neither should be or will be cheap and the Sox are in no rush to get rid of either.

 

Plus half the price of Hamels.

[shipps]

Sale's value is so high that it almost has to be a three team trade in order for the other team to give us enough in return. They will have to give us what they got plus something from someone else that we want.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Hopefully whatever they do from this point forward is with 2019 and beyond in mind. Punt on 2016-2018 as far as winning because it's not happening either way. Get a pool of young talent, get high draft picks and smart international signings the next few years, and be in a position for sustained winning at least by 2020.

 

If that means trading both Sale and Quintana right now, do it. It doesn't mean they have to trade them now, but Sale and Quintana are never pitching in the playoffs for the Sox. If/when they get a proposal that makes sense, move them and anyone else that isn't going to be part of the 2020 team.

 

Unclear what you mean by smart international signings. If you are signing 16/17yr olds its really difficult to project their futures. The Sox have never shown an interest in the top guys .

 

If you are talking about the older guys. Look at Gourriel. He's 32 and the Astro's gave him 5/$45M . The Astros !! Nothing very smart about that but I use it as an example of how you pretty much have to make dumb offers for int'l talent . If you are talking about Koreans the Sox haven't been in that market at all and someone like Kang who opened the door to more Koreans is just another miss Hahn and Co. failed to recognize. Sox haven't had a Japanese player in ages.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Rodon is cheap and under team control but he has not shown me much. What about Saladino and Garcia for Hill, Garcia is on almost everyone's exit list and Saladino will not be a starting position player for this team. Yeah next year's FA pitching class is not much but IMO the Sox have a better chance of resigning Hill if he's on the team for the 2nd half of the season expecially if he has a quality receiver to throw to in Lucroy.

 

WS have 2 ACE starters, most MLB rotations have none. Getting Hill to add to Sale & Rodon gives Hahn the flexibility to trade Quintana who is way under paid and should get the Sox at least 2 starting position players with good bats in return. Lucroy is a terrific Catcher with a quality bat and while Braun is on the wrong side of 30, he is still playing at a high level, maybe you ask for a 3rd player (prospect) from the Brewers. Add Lucroy and Braun to this lineup and it is much improved which will take some of the pressure off the pitching staff since they won't have to throw the perfect pitch all the time to win.

 

Trade for Hill and you have a Sale, Hill, Shields and Rodon rotation for the rest of this year; very solid. Remember also that lots of salary is coming off the payroll this offseason (Latos $3M, Rollins $2M, Rodriguez buy out $1M,likely Morneau $1M, Danks $15M plus the Sox have another $13M back early by 1 year because the DH who couldn't hit retired) that's $35M

 

That's $ that can be spent on Shields (if he decides to stay, if he opts out then the Sox have another $10M at least to spend) and/or Hill plus any talent they get in trade for Quintana.

 

This team needs postion players who can hit and trading Quintana the only way to get them besides trading Sale which is a non starter for me

 

Re: Rodon his last 8 starts last year showed his enormous potential when he had a 1.81 ERA . If he can tap into that potential more consistently he's a huge force going forward. Many hoped that would happen this year. It hasn't but considering he is still very raw as an ML pitcher it should come eventually.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Unclear what you mean by smart international signings. If you are signing 16/17yr olds its really difficult to project their futures. The Sox have never shown an interest in the top guys .

 

If you are talking about the older guys. Look at Gourriel. He's 32 and the Astro's gave him 5/$45M . The Astros !! Nothing very smart about that but I use it as an example of how you pretty much have to make dumb offers for int'l talent . If you are talking about Koreans the Sox haven't been in that market at all and someone like Kang who opened the door to more Koreans is just another miss Hahn and Co. failed to recognize. Sox haven't had a Japanese player in ages.

 

 

Adolfo was #2 on mlb.com list when the Sox signed him. Sox finished 2nd on Soler and offered $25 million and wanted Puig prior to Dodgers signing him. They've shown interest in top guys before.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Adolfo was #2 on mlb.com list when the Sox signed him. Sox finished 2nd on Soler and offered $25 million and wanted Puig prior to Dodgers signing him. They've shown interest in top guys before.

 

A #2 prospect for $1.6M . Compare that to a real top guy like Moncada who the Red Sox basically spent over $60M on. Coming in 2nd on guys is just typical Sox. Day late and a dollar short . Is that real interest or token interest ?

 

Got any excuses for the lack of Korean or Japanese guys ?

[dmbjeff]

Hopefully whatever they do from this point forward is with 2019 and beyond in mind. Punt on 2016-2018 as far as winning because it's not happening either way. Get a pool of young talent, get high draft picks and smart international signings the next few years, and be in a position for sustained winning at least by 2020.

 

If that means trading both Sale and Quintana right now, do it. It doesn't mean they have to trade them now, but Sale and Quintana are never pitching in the playoffs for the Sox. If/when they get a proposal that makes sense, move them and anyone else that isn't going to be part of the 2020 team.

 

If the asking price is 5 top prospects for Sale and 4 for Quintana, can you imagine what that does for the future. It totally changes the game for their current future projections. If they hold onto Sale and Quintana, they basically have a 1 year window(2017) to win. This would require throwing gobs of money at Encarnacion, Desmond, Ramos. This is clearly not a White Sox move. Then and only then could they possibly make the playoffs short term, and it may only be short term for that one season. 2018, Frazier, Melky, Lawrie all would be gone. Who would replace them? It would have to be even more money thrown at FA's or throwing money at those players. Again, not the White Sox MO. Trading everything away now and retooling and being ready for 2018 or 2019 is the way to go. I am convinced this is the best long term solution for them being a great team again. 2020-2025 would be some great baseball. I won't make fake lineups but imagine Moncada, Collins, Benitendi, De Leon and much much more playing at the Cell.

 

Sale and Q's value are at all time highs now, now is the time to strike and rebuild. You then can get rid of all the other vet's and get good prospects for them as well. I'd say goodbye to Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Duke, Robertson. Heck even Eaton and Abreu could go. I really hope Hahn does the right thing and fixes this mess that KW has created.

[Chicago White Sox]

If the asking price is 5 top prospects for Sale and 4 for Quintana, can you imagine what that does for the future. It totally changes the game for their current future projections. If they hold onto Sale and Quintana, they basically have a 1 year window(2017) to win. This would require throwing gobs of money at Encarnacion, Desmond, Ramos. This is clearly not a White Sox move. Then and only then could they possibly make the playoffs short term, and it may only be short term for that one season. 2018, Frazier, Melky, Lawrie all would be gone. Who would replace them? It would have to be even more money thrown at FA's or throwing money at those players. Again, not the White Sox MO. Trading everything away now and retooling and being ready for 2018 or 2019 is the way to go. I am convinced this is the best long term solution for them being a great team again. 2020-2025 would be some great baseball. I won't make fake lineups but imagine Moncada, Collins, Benitendi, De Leon and much much more playing at the Cell.

 

Sale and Q's value are at all time highs now, now is the time to strike and rebuild. You then can get rid of all the other vet's and get good prospects for them as well. I'd say goodbye to Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Duke, Robertson. Heck even Eaton and Abreu could go. I really hope Hahn does the right thing and fixes this mess that KW has created.

Yes, this guy gets it. Don't pass on this opportunity Rick Hahn!

[Thad Bosley]

Sale and Q's value are at all time highs now, now is the time to strike and rebuild. You then can get rid of all the other vet's and get good prospects for them as well. I'd say goodbye to Frazier, Melky, Lawrie, Duke, Robertson. Heck even Eaton and Abreu could go. I really hope Hahn does the right thing and fixes this mess that KW has created.

Without a doubt.

[dmbjeff]

Yes, this guy gets it. Don't pass on this opportunity Rick Hahn!

 

If Hahn does this right, he could walk away from the deadline with 12 players who were top 10 prospects for their respective teams. That would be a massive haul for trading away Sale, Q, Melky, Frazier, Duke. If they can keep drafting well under Hahn like they have(So much better than under KW) they have a chance to be ready to compete again in 2018 and win in 2019.