What to do at the Trade Deadline

[SCCWS]

Those teams are not going to give up those major league players during the season if at all.

 

Agree. Maybe in the offseason, if their years end up badly they would be forced to trade a young stud for a Sale or Q. But at this point, Bradley is probably like Bogaerts almost an untouchable. Now if the White Sox offered Sale next winter, maybe Bradley and 1 high prospect and 1 medium or Q for Betts and 1 high prospect.

[Special K]

Can we sell Ventura?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Those teams are not going to give up those major league players during the season if at all.

Agreed but that's why I said a deal Hahn couldn't refuse. They're far more likely to dealt in the offseason if at all. If the sox don't sell, which they likely won't, then they might have to move Q for a blockbuster deal in order to make this lineup better. They'd take a hit in the rotation but it might be their only option.

[LittleHurt05]

I think for Sale and Quintana they could bring back two MLB ready impact young players (Jackie Bradley Jr., Betts, Joc Pederson, Corey Seager some names as examples) then six near ready studs (Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, etc. from Boston. Just to name a few) and then a few very young prospects that are a few years away. That's just a ball park of what they'd need to get back. Truth is Hahn and the fro

nt office got the Avi trade wrong but did get a couple lower prospects that were used as trade bait (Montas, Wendelken). Do I trust them to sell and rebuild again? I don't think so. I think the sox need to clean house in the front office and bring in some fresh blood. Then completely rebuild the team. If they kept Hahn however, I wouldn't hate it if Q was moved at the deadline for a deal Hahn couldn't refuse. (let's say for arguments sake they moved Q to Boston for Bradley Jr., Moncada, Devers and Benintendi or Swihart) I think I could live with that deal. Gets a young proven all star OF, plus a 2B who is on a fast track to stardom in Moncada, then ya get two more top young prospect hitters. The Sale trade would be the one you take an off-season to work on. That one you HAVE to nail. Then you could turn around and unload the others (Frazier, Melky, etc.) I would keep Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer and Eaton as my new core.

 

2016 fWAR:

Corey Seager 4.0

Mookie Betts 3.7

Jackie Bradley 3.4

Jose Quintana 2.9

Chris Sale 2.6

 

Why in the world would playoff contenders trade those hitters for Quintana or Sale? It could actually make their team worse.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Agree. Maybe in the offseason, if their years end up badly they would be forced to trade a young stud for a Sale or Q. But at this point, Bradley is probably like Bogaerts almost an untouchable. Now if the White Sox offered Sale next winter, maybe Bradley and 1 high prospect and 1 medium or Q for Betts and 1 high prospect.

I'm not keen on trading sale to an AL team. But the Sale deal will be unprecedented. It's not just gona be s 3 prospect deal. If I were trading him to Boston, I'd demand Bogaerts to start, then Moncada, Devers, Benintendi, and Swihart.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

2016 fWAR:

Corey Seager 4.0

Mookie Betts 3.7

Jackie Bradley 3.4

Jose Quintana 2.9

Chris Sale 2.6

 

Why in the world would playoff contenders trade those hitters for Quintana or Sale? It could actually make their team worse.

Because Sale and Quintana are two of the most valuable controllable arms in all of baseball and left handed for that matter. Their value is insane. Maybe I'm overrating them but the package would be insane for Chris Sale.

[oldsox]

Boston is not going to trade Moncada. Period, to coin a phrase.

 

Sox could have gotten a major package from Boston for Q in the off season, before they signed Price. That was the time to pull the trigger.

 

Robertson might have value with the Cubs.

[LittleHurt05]

Because Sale and Quintana are two of the most valuable controllable arms in all of baseball and left handed for that matter. Their value is insane. Maybe I'm overrating them but the package would be insane for Chris Sale.

 

I get your point but those 3 guys you mentioned are younger, have better contracts and have out performed Q and Sale this year. There is no chance those guys are traded right now.

 

And if you are trading Sale or Q, you don't need MLB ready guys anyway. Their contracts are so team friendly the next few years, you are basically punting until 2019 at the least if you do trade them.

[the_Xsport]

Really, there are two contingencies they should take based on where they're at in two weeks.

 

ONEIf they're less than 4.5 out and 55-50 (Going 10-4 over final 14), then you definitely BUY That's a convincing run and puts them in a good spot to maybe snag a wildcard appearance. Anything can happen in the playoffs, especially with their pitching. If they have a 82-85 win season, you trade for a guy like Carlos Gonzalez this offseason (unconvinced he's moved at the deadline) and go all in for 2017. If the White Sox hover around .500 in 2017, even if you're just a couple games under, you do a massive fire sale. A purge of sorts.

 

TWO If the White Sox are 7-8 games back and around 5 games under .500 (They very well could be considering this stretch) then you undergo a major sell off.

 

Deal Todd Frazier to the Mets for an arm. Maybe Zack Wheeler can be had. He's coming off Tommy John Surgery, but him and a lotto ticket is something I'd do for Frazier in a heartbeat.

 

It's in the division, but Melky Cabrera would look awfully nice in an Indians uniform. A headliner around Top 10-15 range for Melky makes some sense. I'd personally target LHP Rob Kaminsky.

 

Duke and Robertson could both be dangled. In fact, it would make sense to call the Cubs on David Robertson. Eloy Jiminez is an up and coming outfielder in the Cubs system, an oft-rumored guy that could be used for a reliever. Pay down some of Robertson's deal and getting the #7 Cub prospect seems doable. Cubs would control D-Rob for 2 more years, plus the rest of 2016. He'll come cheaper than Andrew Miller or Aroldis Chapman. The Cubs and White Sox aren't adverse to making deals.

 

On Sale and Quintana, I've finally come to terms with the best way to handle the pair. You'll never get fair value for Quintana GMs obviously aren't as skewed to name value as fans but it's a tough sell to your fanbase to trade top chips for a 1-A. Although, I personally feel Q has reached top-tier at this point; just below the superstar echelon.

 

First, why do the White Sox have to trade one of these two arms? Well after 2017, a year Chicago is unlikely to see the playoffs, the White Sox are potentially losing Frazier, Melky, and Lawrie anyway. That leaves them with new holes to fill for 2018 in 3B, 2B, OF. Meanwhile, who knows who has taken the reigns in CF. That's another hole, along with DH and C. So it's the 2017 offseason and you have 2/3rds of your line up to fill and there's a dearth of free agents on the 2017 market. The farm system has more fruit by that point, but not the depth or middle tier of prospects that can get you 4-5 replacement level to above average position players.

 

So if 2018 doesn't work because again, not only are Eaton/Sale/Q/Abreu a couple years older, but they're also insulated even less than they are now for the aforementioned reasons. So you have one year of Chris Sale left and then the championship window clock really runs out.

 

That's why I'm dealing Chris Sale in the 2016 offseason. I think you run him by Boston for foundations like Moncada/Benintendi or Bregman/Reed from Houston. Now I think it makes sense to keep Quintana. He's controlled through 2020 and will fit very nicely at the top of the rotation supporting this revamped line up.

 

Combine this with burgeoning prospects like Collins, Anderson, and Fulmer and this looks like a real window that could open as soon as 2018:

 

1. CF Adam Eaton (L)

2. SS Tim Anderson ®

3. 2B Yoan Moncada (S)

4. LF Andrew Benintendi ®

5. C Zack Collins (L)*

6. 1B Blake Swihart (S)

7. DH Jose Abreu ®

8. 3B Trey Michaelczewski (S)

9. RF Eloy Jiminez ®

 

*Collins' bat should be ready in 2018. His glove may take a bit longer. If that's the case, stick him at 1B. Caveats are that Trey and Adam Engel (Mid-tier starter or 4th OF) may not make it through the system, although I like both players. If so, there will be plenty of money off the books to at least temporarily plug these holes.

 

Rotation:

 

Jose Quintana (L)

Carlos Rodon (L)

Carson Fulmer ®

Zack Wheeler ®

Spencer Adams ®

 

Alec Hansen has a world of upside. Certainly a high risk, low-hit prospect but has front of the rotation stuff if he can hone in the command. Maybe by 2018 or 2019 that's the case.

 

Here's the plus side. The 2018-2019 FA class is historically stacked. Not smart to bet on it because there will be flux in injuries, extensions, and performance but this young core will be very cost-controlled. In fact, so cost-controlled that if Reinsdorf actually wanted to open the pocketbooks for a Jose Fernandez or Manny Machado, it would work financially.

 

Overall, that's just one direction they could go in. Of course, trade returns are never guaranteed. One of Moncada or Benintendi could very well bust, but this is merely a template. Let your minds run wild with your own targets.

Edited July 18, 2016 by the_Xsport

[Dunt]

I would sell Frazier and DRob personally. I think you could get a valuable piece for both and I don't see either in the long term plans.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

It is easy to say sell, but once you do sell, you can't take it back. Some prospects are nice, but who do the Sox trade that brings back top prospects who,actually are any good? There were several people excited about Avi Garcia back in the day. How does acquiring players like that enhance the future?

 

No,way would I trade Sale or Q and not get at least so,etching major league back. Trade Robertson and you will spend the next few years looking for a reliever. It isn't like they are going to be able to make much of a splash in the free agent market. If I were Hahn, I would be looking for offensive upgrades from teams that want financial relief.

I agree with all of this.

Edited July 18, 2016 by South Side Fireworks Man

[GreenSox]

It is easy to say sell, but once you do sell, unless you are Caulfield, you can't take it back. Some prospects are nice, but who do the Sox trade that brings back top prospects who,actually are any good? There were several people excited about Avi Garcia back in the day. How does acquiring players like that enhance the future?

There's no doubt it's a high risk. You get into rebuilding and, if you don't know what you are doing or even run into extended bad luck, and it can be a near endless cycle.

 

I'm not convinced it's necessary.

 

And I think the Sox need a fresh team of front office management to do it. Even if I thought that Williams and Hahn were capable team-builders (which, obviously, I don't) I think you need a fresh team who will take an objective look at everything.

Edited July 18, 2016 by GreenSox

[kitekrazy]

Because Sale and Quintana are two of the most valuable controllable arms in all of baseball and left handed for that matter. Their value is insane. Maybe I'm overrating them but the package would be insane for Chris Sale.

 

I'm guessing not. If there ever was he would have been traded before this season.

 

[greg775]

Sell. I've already bored everybody with my list of players to dump. I will summarize and quickly add. ...

• Package Frazier and Robertson this week. Get this ball rolling.

• Trade Shields and get a TON for him. He could be very very valuable to a contender. Get it done soon. Before we're settling for scraps.

• Trade Melky but rob somebody blind. Get good players for Melky Cabrera!!! NL to the Giants or somebody.

• Trade both catchers ASAP. Try to get a young reliever in both deals. Somebody might want Navarro for pinch hitter or experience down the stretch.

• Trade Lawrie and Duke in a package. Try to get a couple guys who are under 25. Don't settle. Somebody will want Lawrie and Duke.

• Trade Avi to an NL team where he can try again. Get what you can.

• Trade Shuck.

 

I've probably forgotten some. TRADE TRADE TRADE.

Keep Eaton, Abreu, Sale, Q. I wouldn't be against keeping Shields either. Sale, Q, Rodon, Shields is a decent four for next season.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Sell. I've already bored everybody with my list of players to dump. I will summarize and quickly add. ...

• Package Frazier and Robertson this week. Get this ball rolling.

• Trade Shields and get a TON for him. He could be very very valuable to a contender. Get it done soon. Before we're settling for scraps.

• Trade Melky but rob somebody blind. Get good players for Melky Cabrera!!! NL to the Giants or somebody.

• Trade both catchers ASAP. Try to get a young reliever in both deals. Somebody might want Navarro for pinch hitter or experience down the stretch.

• Trade Lawrie and Duke in a package. Try to get a couple guys who are under 25. Don't settle. Somebody will want Lawrie and Duke.

• Trade Avi to an NL team where he can try again. Get what you can.

• Trade Shuck.

 

I've probably forgotten some. TRADE TRADE TRADE.

Keep Eaton, Abreu, Sale, Q. I wouldn't be against keeping Shields either. Sale, Q, Rodon, Shields is a decent four for next season.

[caulfield12]

It is easy to say sell, but once you do sell, unless you are Caulfield, you can't take it back. Some prospects are nice, but who do the Sox trade that brings back top prospects who,actually are any good? There were several people excited about Avi Garcia back in the day. How does acquiring players like that enhance the future?

 

No,way would I trade Sale or Q and not get at least so,etching major league back. Trade Robertson and you will spend the next few years looking for a reliever. It isn't like they are going to be able to make much of a splash in the free agent market. If I were Hahn, I would be looking for offensive upgrades from teams that want financial relief.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...braces-new-team

 

Yes, I was 10x more ebullient than Hahn and Bell...lol. I called him the first seven tool player, and a surefire future HoFer.

 

Except I didn't say anything remotely resembling that.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm guessing not. If there ever was he would have been traded before this season.

I disagree because the Shelby Miller deal threw things out of whack value wise for pitchers IMO.

[tray]

I don't know exactly this works. Do you announce to the rest of the league that certain players are available or just wait for the phone to ring?

If it is the former then publish this list:

 

- Available to the highest bidder

 

Robertson

Duke

Frazier

Lawrie

Shields

Avi Garcia

Shuck

AJax

Melky

Navarro

Avila

Abreu

Anderson (yes, I'd offer him up right now while his value is sky high)

 

Don't trade any pitchers other than Duke, Robertson and Shields.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bananarchy]

I think (hope) he was referring to Sale.

[Jose Abreu]

Standing pat in 2016 is not as bad of a decision as standing pat in 2015 was as this entire roster will still be there and tradeable this offseason. No one of any consequence hits the free agent market this offseason, which was not the case last year.

I get that, but standing pat is basically saying "we don't think we'll make the playoffs", so why not sell, gain assets, and get a better draft pick?

[hi8is]

Really, there are two contingencies they should take based on where they're at in two weeks.

 

ONEIf they're less than 4.5 out and 55-50 (Going 10-4 over final 14), then you definitely BUY That's a convincing run and puts them in a good spot to maybe snag a wildcard appearance. Anything can happen in the playoffs, especially with their pitching. If they have a 82-85 win season, you trade for a guy like Carlos Gonzalez this offseason (unconvinced he's moved at the deadline) and go all in for 2017. If the White Sox hover around .500 in 2017, even if you're just a couple games under, you do a massive fire sale. A purge of sorts.

 

TWO If the White Sox are 7-8 games back and around 5 games under .500 (They very well could be considering this stretch) then you undergo a major sell off.

 

Deal Todd Frazier to the Mets for an arm. Maybe Zack Wheeler can be had. He's coming off Tommy John Surgery, but him and a lotto ticket is something I'd do for Frazier in a heartbeat.

 

It's in the division, but Melky Cabrera would look awfully nice in an Indians uniform. A headliner around Top 10-15 range for Melky makes some sense. I'd personally target LHP Rob Kaminsky.

 

Duke and Robertson could both be dangled. In fact, it would make sense to call the Cubs on David Robertson. Eloy Jiminez is an up and coming outfielder in the Cubs system, an oft-rumored guy that could be used for a reliever. Pay down some of Robertson's deal and getting the #7 Cub prospect seems doable. Cubs would control D-Rob for 2 more years, plus the rest of 2016. He'll come cheaper than Andrew Miller or Aroldis Chapman. The Cubs and White Sox aren't adverse to making deals.

 

On Sale and Quintana, I've finally come to terms with the best way to handle the pair. You'll never get fair value for Quintana GMs obviously aren't as skewed to name value as fans but it's a tough sell to your fanbase to trade top chips for a 1-A. Although, I personally feel Q has reached top-tier at this point; just below the superstar echelon.

 

First, why do the White Sox have to trade one of these two arms? Well after 2017, a year Chicago is unlikely to see the playoffs, the White Sox are potentially losing Frazier, Melky, and Lawrie anyway. That leaves them with new holes to fill for 2018 in 3B, 2B, OF. Meanwhile, who knows who has taken the reigns in CF. That's another hole, along with DH and C. So it's the 2017 offseason and you have 2/3rds of your line up to fill and there's a dearth of free agents on the 2017 market. The farm system has more fruit by that point, but not the depth or middle tier of prospects that can get you 4-5 replacement level to above average position players.

 

So if 2018 doesn't work because again, not only are Eaton/Sale/Q/Abreu a couple years older, but they're also insulated even less than they are now for the aforementioned reasons. So you have one year of Chris Sale left and then the championship window clock really runs out.

 

That's why I'm dealing Chris Sale in the 2016 offseason. I think you run him by Boston for foundations like Moncada/Benintendi or Bregman/Reed from Houston. Now I think it makes sense to keep Quintana. He's controlled through 2020 and will fit very nicely at the top of the rotation supporting this revamped line up.

 

Combine this with burgeoning prospects like Collins, Anderson, and Fulmer and this looks like a real window that could open as soon as 2018:

 

1. CF Adam Eaton (L)

2. SS Tim Anderson ®

3. 2B Yoan Moncada (S)

5. LF Andrew Benintendi ®

6. C Zack Collins (L)*

7. DH Jose Abreu ®

8. 3B Trey Michaelczewski (S)

9. RF Eloy Jiminez ®

 

*Collins' bat should be ready in 2018. His glove may take a bit longer. If that's the case, stick him at 1B. Caveats are that Trey and Adam Engel (Mid-tier starter or 4th OF) may not make it through the system, although I like both players. If so, there will be plenty of money off the books to at least temporarily plug these holes.

 

Rotation:

 

Jose Quintana (L)

Carlos Rodon (L)

Carson Fulmer ®

Zack Wheeler ®

Spencer Adams ®

 

Alec Hansen has a world of upside. Certainly a high risk, low-hit prospect but has front of the rotation stuff if he can hone in the command. Maybe by 2018 or 2019 that's the case.

 

Here's the plus side. The 2018-2019 FA class is historically stacked. Not smart to bet on it because there will be flux in injuries, extensions, and performance but this young core will be very cost-controlled. In fact, so cost-controlled that if Reinsdorf actually wanted to open the pocketbooks for a Jose Fernandez or Manny Machado, it would work financially.

 

Overall, that's just one direction they could go in. Of course, trade returns are never guaranteed. One of Moncada or Benintendi could very well bust, but this is merely a template. Let your minds run wild with your own targets.

 

You're missing a 1B / 4 hitter in your lineup.

 

I said the same thought process with some different names coming back - some of the same names, about 3 weeks ago. I'm on your train man.

 

It's tough not to think of a 2017 rotation like this thou:

Sale

Q

Shields

Rodon

Fulmer

[Baron]

It's either going to be stand pat or buy guys. They arent going to sell. Why people think that's going to happen I dont get.

[Jose Abreu]

It's either going to be stand pat or buy guys. They arent going to sell. Why people think that's going to happen I dont get.

I don't know who thinks it will happen, but I know that it should happen

[the_Xsport]

You're missing a 1B / 4 hitter in your lineup.

 

I said the same thought process with some different names coming back - some of the same names, about 3 weeks ago. I'm on your train man.

 

It's tough not to think of a 2017 rotation like this thou:

Sale

Q

Shields

Rodon

Fulmer

 

Shoot. I wrote this up really fast. Thanks for telling me, accidentally deleted that line. Yeah, that rotation could hang with anyone. The problem is that Fulmer's their best trade chip to get a true impact bat to support it and they've proven unwilling to spend for premium bats in FA. If they were going to sign Cespedes this offseason and throw some money at Weiters or something, I'd be on board.

 

[caulfield12]

Wilson Ramos seems more likely. Gomez or Rasmus in CF.

 

Two moves that have to go exactly right to provide much hope at contention in 2017.