What to do at the Trade Deadline

[Dunt]

Lots of people are calling for dumping Frazier. But then what's the plan for 3B? Don't tell me Saladino, he can't hit enough to be an everyday player.

 

I hated all those years we had garbage at 3B and don't want to go back to them:

 

Connor Gillaspie

Gordon Beckham

Leury Garcia

Marcus Semien

Jeff Keppinger

Edwardo Escobar

Orlando Hudson

Brent Morel

Mark Teahen

Jason Nix

Josh Fields

 

Yes, Frazier's batting average is terrible and his OBP is lower than we expected. But he plays reliable defense, provides what little power this team has, and his BA may not always be crap (don't forget that he's adjusting to a new league). At least he's a real major league third baseman and not some half-assed, makeshift player at the position.

 

There has to be something viable to replace Frazier if we trade him.

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but outside da dingers this season, Frazier has been pretty bad. He is currently rated 23rd in fWAR for 3B with the second worst defensive score, 4th worst UZR, 6th worst UZR/150 among qualified 3B. Not to mention he has been worth -2 DRS. He has the 2nd worst AVG and OBP among qualified 3B and a wRC+ of 100 which is the definition of league average. In short, while it's fun to look at his home run totals and see what could be, he has kinda been a disaster for the Sox this season.

[bmags]

I don't know what to do. I don't trust Hahn to do a rebuild not because I don't think he could get the best return (though I have my doubts) but because he has proven he can't sell the patience required to have a wave of young talent come up at once.

 

I just would prefer we don't buy unless it is for a long term player in a down year we think could be useful later.

[shago]

I don't trust Hahn

Hahn is a complete muppet

[GreenSox]

Lawrie at 3B and Saladino at 2B would be a return to what I spoke about.

 

Lawrie isn't a real 3B to me. We need some offensive power from that position, not a punch & judy hitter.

that's true

Although, there are other moves they can make. You can trade a good player to fill a couple of holes, perhaps including 3B. You trade Eaton or Q for a young OF and 3B, for example. I know, you lose Eaton...but sometimes you have to trade something to get something worthwhile (versus the usual Rick Hahn fodder of short term veterans). The FO could use some creativity and flexibility.

 

 

As for Saladino, it would be nice if they'd let him hit so we can find out what his abilities are. Sox score 1 run in 4 games, and Ventura keeps the same lineup, except for Morneau. Right now, Hahn has valued at a utility IF. That may be accurate, but finding out if he is more won't devalue him below his current low value that Hahn has set.

Edited July 18, 2016 by GreenSox

[FT35]

I don't know what to do. I don't trust Hahn to do a rebuild not because I don't think he could get the best return (though I have my doubts) but because he has proven he can't sell the patience required to have a wave of young talent come up at once.

 

I just would prefer we don't buy unless it is for a long term player in a down year we think could be useful later.

 

Makes sense. Being a GM takes practice too and Hahn hasn't had a ton of practice selling (because they always insist on adding??) so he's probably not the best to lead a big sale. Almost like you need to sub out that portion of his job to someone who has practice selling assets and getting the best returns. GM consignment...I like it!

[flavum]

I hope they know they're out of it this season, so either they're trading to compete in 2017, or starting a full blown rebuild. Obviously we know the more likely option for a Reinsdorf team.

[bmags]

Related note: Terry Ryan relieved of his duties.

[MDWhiteSoxFan]

Really wish we had the coveted pen arm people want like the Yankees do. They'll probably end up with Schwarber in the next couple of weeks or something. While we will end up with a 30ish year old guy that increases our mediocrity to slightly less mediocre.

[shipps]

If there ever was a time that the Sox could do a full rebuild in the traditional sense it would be now. The Cubs doing what they have done has made the majority of fans across all sports think its a great thing. It isnt going to work with most that do it but everyone dreams of the Cubs success in doing it. This time of acceptance of doing something like a full tear down wont last forever so they might as well jump at the opportunity.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but outside da dingers this season, Frazier has been pretty bad. He is currently rated 23rd in fWAR for 3B with the second worst defensive score, 4th worst UZR, 6th worst UZR/150 among qualified 3B. Not to mention he has been worth -2 DRS. He has the 2nd worst AVG and OBP among qualified 3B and a wRC+ of 100 which is the definition of league average. In short, while it's fun to look at his home run totals and see what could be, he has kinda been a disaster for the Sox this season.

 

 

I don't buy those defensive metrics though at all. He's been solid defensively.

[Hatchetman]

voted sell but limited sell. 2017 is their last chip at the craps table.

[bmags]

voted sell but limited sell. 2017 is their last chip at the craps table.

 

Yes, I think of this more of a tactical retreat.

 

OTOH, I think there are some teams that might let go of the big haul, and we'll once again say "Oh well you can't expect to get that everytime that's a rare deal"

[shago]

I hope they know they're out of it this season, so either they're trading to compete in 2017, or starting a full blown rebuild. Obviously we know the more likely option for a Reinsdorf team.

Reinsdorf being all about the money, why doesn't a rebuild make sense? Keeping a decent product on field obviously isn't drawing any fans in the seats, especially with the northsiders being good. Cut payroll, fan attendance stays roughly the same, give it a shot ..... Better from a monetary perspective for JR & Co.

[Balta1701]

Reinsdorf being all about the money, why doesn't a rebuild make sense? Keeping a decent product on field obviously isn't drawing any fans in the seats, especially with the northsiders being good. Cut payroll, fan attendance stays roughly the same, give it a shot ..... Better from a monetary perspective for JR & Co.

The obvious conclusion is that "all about the money" does not accurately describe JR and company's decision making. Clearly they do care about funds at some level based on the type of signings they do make, but that they have continued to try to force themselves into competition when their organization is far from ready does imply that there's a mandate to win ballgames right now that is at least of equal importance.

[Thad Bosley]

Reinsdorf being all about the money, why doesn't a rebuild make sense? Keeping a decent product on field obviously isn't drawing any fans in the seats, especially with the northsiders being good. Cut payroll, fan attendance stays roughly the same, give it a shot ..... Better from a monetary perspective for JR & Co.

Under the (sweetheart lease) deal, the Sox didn't have to pay a fee for use of the stadium until 2008. In 2015, that fee amounted to about $1.6 million.

 

The Sox also must pay a fee on each ticket sold in excess of 1.93 million in paid attendance. Since 2008, the Sox have paid that fee only in 2010, when games drew 2.2 million fans. However, the Sox were allowed to apply a credit based on the taxes the team paid that year, reducing the ticket fee payment from $455,974 to $95,531.

 

"The White Sox didn't have that much of an incentive to really pack the place," Sanderson said.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sox-...0521-story.html

 

Before sweetheart lease deal = Reinsdorf NOT a billionaire.

 

25 years later after state subsidization per sweetheart lease terms = Reinsdorf net worth of $1.3 billion

 

So as you can see, you are right - Reinsdorf is all about the money, if you care to pay attention to the details of the sweetheart lease deal he got rammed down the taxpayers' throats back in 1988, and from which he's been reaping the benefits BIG TIME for the past 25 years. But because he gets subsidized for low attendance, he could easily go in for a full rebuild and his pocketbook would never know the difference.

 

Amazing what little tidbits of information you find lying in the details!

 

[captain54]

The obvious conclusion is that "all about the money" does not accurately describe JR and company's decision making. Clearly they do care about funds at some level based on the type of signings they do make, but that they have continued to try to force themselves into competition when their organization is far from ready does imply that there's a mandate to win ballgames right now that is at least of equal importance.

 

I would totally agree with this…. wonderful analysis.. the organization efforts are there, its the capabilities that are lacking… a .500 ball club just might be all this system is capable of right now.. it is what it is...

[Dick Allen]

Under the (sweetheart lease) deal, the Sox didn't have to pay a fee for use of the stadium until 2008. In 2015, that fee amounted to about $1.6 million.

 

The Sox also must pay a fee on each ticket sold in excess of 1.93 million in paid attendance. Since 2008, the Sox have paid that fee only in 2010, when games drew 2.2 million fans. However, the Sox were allowed to apply a credit based on the taxes the team paid that year, reducing the ticket fee payment from $455,974 to $95,531.

 

"The White Sox didn't have that much of an incentive to really pack the place," Sanderson said.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sox-...0521-story.html

 

Before sweetheart lease deal = Reinsdorf NOT a billionaire.

 

25 years later after state subsidization per sweetheart lease terms = Reinsdorf net worth of $1.3 billion

 

So as you can see, you are right - Reinsdorf is all about the money, if you care to pay attention to the details of the sweetheart lease deal he got rammed down the taxpayers' throats back in 1988, and from which he's been reaping the benefits BIG TIME for the past 25 years. But because he gets subsidized for low attendance, he could easily go in for a full rebuild and his pocketbook would never know the difference.

 

Amazing what little tidbits of information you find lying in the details!

 

 

His billionaire status if true doesn't have much to do with the lease. The guy who bought the Clippers made JR a billionaire on paper. But I guess that was a detail you wanted to ignore.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

His billionaire status if true doesn't have much to do with the lease. The guy who bought the Clippers made JR a billionaire on paper. But I guess that was a detail you wanted to ignore.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/jerry-reinsdorf/

[Thad Bosley]

His billionaire status if true doesn't have much to do with the lease. The guy who bought the Clippers made JR a billionaire on paper. But I guess that was a detail you wanted to ignore.

LOL - boy, you'll throw anything against the wall and hope it'll stick, won't you? This is one of your better or weaker attempts, depending on how you look at it.

 

Let me spell it out for you - 25 years of getting all of the revenues with practically none of the expenses associated with a Major League Baseball stadium is going to go a long ways towards establishing billionaire status in this world. A long ways! Gotta hand it to the 'ol SOB - he knew what he was doing back in the '80s when he pulled this scheme off with the new stadium. He's a billionaire today as a result.

[Dick Allen]

http://www.forbes.com/profile/jerry-reinsdorf/

I doubt JR gave Forbes any information regarding his finances. Whether or not he is a billionaire we really don't know. Not even his partners know how much of the White Sox he owns. I don't know about the Bulls but considering they are now valued at $2.3 billion, it's probably safe to assume he has a ton of money on paper. I would imagine most of us would like to trade bank accounts with him as well, but that is an estimate which may be accurate and may not be accurate.

[Thad Bosley]

I doubt JR gave Forbes any information regarding his finances. Whether or not he is a billionaire we really don't know. Not even his partners know how much of the White Sox he owns. I don't know about the Bulls but considering they are now valued at $2.3 billion, it's probably safe to assume he has a ton of money on paper. I would imagine most of us would like to trade bank accounts with him as well, but that is an estimate which may be accurate and may not be accurate.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably way lower than what he's actually worth.

[Quin]

Why are we mad at JR for being a successful businessman?

[Balta1701]

Why are we mad at JR for being a successful businessman?

[Doc Edwards Shot]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but outside da dingers this season, Frazier has been pretty bad. He is currently rated 23rd in fWAR for 3B with the second worst defensive score, 4th worst UZR, 6th worst UZR/150 among qualified 3B. Not to mention he has been worth -2 DRS. He has the 2nd worst AVG and OBP among qualified 3B and a wRC+ of 100 which is the definition of league average. In short, while it's fun to look at his home run totals and see what could be, he has kinda been a disaster for the Sox this season.

What is the criteria to be a "qualified" 3B?

 

[Balta1701]

What is the criteria to be a "qualified" 3B?

Link

As of 2014, a player needs 3.1 bats, or appearances at the plate in each game of the season, to qualify for a Major League Baseball batting title. With a standard season of 162 games, each player vying for the MLB title is required to make 502 plate appearances.