Chris Sale to Astros potential package?

[bmags]

You don't get guys much closer to ready to contribute in the bigs than Bregman and Reed.

 

Right, Reed is already up and showing power, Bregman is damn near up. McCullers would be in the rotation already. That is 3 players you'd expect up and contributing next year.

[SCCWS]

Right, Reed is already up and showing power, Bregman is damn near up. McCullers would be in the rotation already. That is 3 players you'd expect up and contributing next year.

 

Then you wait until next year. Reed is hitting .158 so far in his first few weeks. Let's see what he is hitting in Sept before we trade a top 5 pitcher in baseball.

 

[Dick Allen]

If Hahn trades Sale for near ready prospects and he goes on like most expect and a couple of the prospects fail, despite the calls for rebuild, prospects, prospects,prospects, it will be fun to read what a fool he was to make the trade.

 

Just remember, having a highly ranked farm system doesn't mean years upon years of winning. Just check out the Twins.

[Eminor3rd]

Sale isn't moving. Sox are going to push for one more year, after which Frazier, Lawrie, and Cabrera are off the books, but Sale and Quintana still have a couple more years and thus some value.

 

We will stand pat or dumpster dive at the deadline, and our guys will have ample time to try to go on a run. We'll add a few short-term pieces in the offseason to bolster the roster for one more shot.

 

If we fail in 2017, I expect Sale could move.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Eminor3rd

[Quin]

If Hahn trades Sale for near ready prospects and he goes on like most expect and a couple of the prospects fail, despite the calls for rebuild, prospects, prospects,prospects, it will be fun to read what a fool he was to make the trade.

 

Just remember, having a highly ranked farm system doesn't mean years upon years of winning. Just check out the Twins.

 

If the Sox decided to truly sell - so trading Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Duke - they'd probably walk away with far and away the best farm system in baseball.

 

And then it would be a complete roll of the dice on whether it would work or not.

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox decided to truly sell - so trading Sale, Q, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Duke - they'd probably walk away with far and away the best farm system in baseball.

 

And then it would be a complete roll of the dice on whether it would work or not.

Exactly.

 

People were excited about Avi Garcia. People were excited about Courtney Hawkins. People were excited about Matt Davidson. Obviously some of the guys the Sox could get back for their better players are better prospects, but those guys totally bust or are mediocre players as well.

 

Unless it's a guy who is going to be leaving your team in the next year or 2 and you really have no realistic chance to compete, I don't understand trading a guy like Sale hoping that what you get is a superstar one day. You already have that.

[Whisox05]

Castro seems like a fair return

 

If you are talking about Jason castro that would be stupid since hes a free agent at the end of the year. Include someone else and just sign castro in offseason

[Kyyle23]

If you are talking about Jason castro that would be stupid since hes a free agent at the end of the year. Include someone else and just sign castro in offseason

 

If you are thinking my post is for real then Im sorry

[bmags]

Exactly.

 

People were excited about Avi Garcia. People were excited about Courtney Hawkins. People were excited about Matt Davidson. Obviously some of the guys the Sox could get back for their better players are better prospects, but those guys totally bust or are mediocre players as well.

 

Unless it's a guy who is going to be leaving your team in the next year or 2 and you really have no realistic chance to compete, I don't understand trading a guy like Sale hoping that what you get is a superstar one day. You already have that.

 

I don't necessarily want to trade sale, but I'd argue that trading Quintana/robertson/jennings/frazier would get us to the playoffs faster than trying to add with an organization that:

- Has limited farm resources that people want (hey look over at Cleveland where they are legitimately able to add Andrew Miller. We would struggle to add an average CFer)

- Has a virtually exhausted payroll.

 

But this is the point where Hahn expected the reserves from the recommitment to the draft/farm to pay off. But here we are, the expense of adding ML starters came at the cost of all depth, and still requires upgrades. Bad CF, the worst DH in baseball (not looking that up but I'm sure it's close to true), terrible catcher situation, zero SP depth, top heavy bullpen.

 

You punt now so you can get a wave of young talent at once, so you don't end up with 1 superstar on a weak roster that we have currently.

[he gone.]

Sale isn't moving. Sox are going to push for one more year, after which Frazier, Lawrie, and Cabrera are off the books, but Sale and Quintana still have a couple more years and thus some value.

 

We will stand pat or dumpster dive at the deadline, and our guys will have ample time to try to go on a run. We'll add a few short-term pieces in the offseason to bolster the roster for one more shot.

 

If we fail in 2017, I expect Sale could move.

 

Exactly!! I think sometimes people fail to realize the contract situations out there. They are going to add small, marginal pieces at the deadline and in the offseason. Maybe even bring in another controllable type OF player via giving up a prospect on our end. HOWEVER, it's not by surprise that we are on year two of a "three year plan" and many of the contracts end after next year.

 

The Sox are going to sit pat right now and try their best to re-tool for a run next year as well. If things are off to a bad start? Then you'll see Melky, Lawrie, Robertson, Sale, Q, Frazier, etc. all traded. Maybe even players like Eaton.

 

My only worry is the Sox do a half tear down and keep a few "key" players around.

 

 

 

Now in regards to this Sale to Houston thing -- I'd totally love it. My second favorite team to watch is Houston, so wouldn't mind it from that perspective.

 

Real hard to say what a fair value for Sale is. They have a plethora of talent over there, so you have to choose what you want or fits best. I'd personally want: Reed and Bregman for sure. You'd have 3b, ss, and 1b/DH all set day 1 of the trade. I'd also want a Tony Kemp or Mike Cameron's son in addition to one prospect arm.

 

Think that's a pretty fair deal. From their end they just added Chris Sale and lost ZERO from their MLB roster. We would have an immediate CF/2B, DH/1B, 3B and a prospect arm..

 

However, if you are trading sale you gotta trade everybody else too. And you give up a ton of leverage as a white flag trade if you move sale as your first piece.

 

You'd want to move your other pieces first --- Robertson is a good example. At least you sell him in a weak market and can sell your fan base that Fulmer can do his job and Burdi is on his way by next year. You cant sell your fan base that Sale can be replaced.

 

 

[bmags]

Exactly!! I think sometimes people fail to realize the contract situations out there. They are going to add small, marginal pieces at the deadline and in the offseason. Maybe even bring in another controllable type OF player via giving up a prospect on our end. HOWEVER, it's not by surprise that we are on year two of a "three year plan" and many of the contracts end after next year.

 

The Sox are going to sit pat right now and try their best to re-tool for a run next year as well. If things are off to a bad start? Then you'll see Melky, Lawrie, Robertson, Sale, Q, Frazier, etc. all traded. Maybe even players like Eaton.

 

My only worry is the Sox do a half tear down and keep a few "key" players around.

 

 

 

Now in regards to this Sale to Houston thing -- I'd totally love it. My second favorite team to watch is Houston, so wouldn't mind it from that perspective.

 

Real hard to say what a fair value for Sale is. They have a plethora of talent over there, so you have to choose what you want or fits best. I'd personally want: Reed and Bregman for sure. You'd have 3b, ss, and 1b/DH all set day 1 of the trade. I'd also want a Tony Kemp or Mike Cameron's son in addition to one prospect arm.

 

Think that's a pretty fair deal. From their end they just added Chris Sale and lost ZERO from their MLB roster. We would have an immediate CF/2B, DH/1B, 3B and a prospect arm..

 

However, if you are trading sale you gotta trade everybody else too. And you give up a ton of leverage as a white flag trade if you move sale as your first piece.

 

You'd want to move your other pieces first --- Robertson is a good example. At least you sell him in a weak market and can sell your fan base that Fulmer can do his job and Burdi is on his way by next year. You cant sell your fan base that Sale can be replaced.

 

Everyone knows what the sox are going to do, we are discussing what they should do.

[Dick Allen]

I don't necessarily want to trade sale, but I'd argue that trading Quintana/robertson/jennings/frazier would get us to the playoffs faster than trying to add with an organization that:

- Has limited farm resources that people want (hey look over at Cleveland where they are legitimately able to add Andrew Miller. We would struggle to add an average CFer)

- Has a virtually exhausted payroll.

 

But this is the point where Hahn expected the reserves from the recommitment to the draft/farm to pay off. But here we are, the expense of adding ML starters came at the cost of all depth, and still requires upgrades. Bad CF, the worst DH in baseball (not looking that up but I'm sure it's close to true), terrible catcher situation, zero SP depth, top heavy bullpen.

 

You punt now so you can get a wave of young talent at once, so you don't end up with 1 superstar on a weak roster that we have currently.

Danks is coming off the books next year. They are always thought to be broke, but do add payroll from time to time. They were in on Gordon and Cespedes, and Tanaka a few years ago. There is money someplace.

 

As far as Andrew Miller, he could have been had for $9 million or so a year. In the Sox sign Duke thread, there were people who stated they would rather have Duke than Miller.

 

They have seemed reluctant to go bold. The half assed stuff has continued to burn them and they go back to it. Maybe something will change there.

[Balta1701]

Danks is coming off the books next year. They are always thought to be broke, but do add payroll from time to time. They were in on Gordon and Cespedes, and Tanaka a few years ago. There is money someplace.

 

As far as Andrew Miller, he could have been had for $9 million or so a year. In the Sox sign Duke thread, there were people who stated they would rather have Duke than Miller.

 

They have seemed reluctant to go bold. The half assed stuff has continued to burn them and they go back to it. Maybe something will change there.

They should have some money to spend next year, but it's also worth remembering that the FA market is extremely bare next offseason and there will be a lot of teams with money to spend. That link talks about Josh Reddick and Jose Bautista as looking at $100 million commitments in this market because who else is there to sign? This is going to be a tough year to go bold in the FA market if you're trying to make your team better and you have multiple needs to fill.

 

2018 is going to shape up as a potential year where going bold could succeed, because even though the big spending Yankees will be taking dumptrucks of money to Harper, there will be so many players on the market that if you have a strong roster behind them you might find some value filling those positions. Of course, the White Sox will also be in a tough spot that year since they'll also be trying to keep or replace several players who will be looking for the best payday they can get and so they'll also be spending money just to tread water.

 

If there was some way they could come up with a few position players before 2018 to cover some of those needs, that's a setup where they could really make a splash and move forward.

[bmags]

Danks is coming off the books next year. They are always thought to be broke, but do add payroll from time to time. They were in on Gordon and Cespedes, and Tanaka a few years ago. There is money someplace.

 

As far as Andrew Miller, he could have been had for $9 million or so a year. In the Sox sign Duke thread, there were people who stated they would rather have Duke than Miller.

 

They have seemed reluctant to go bold. The half assed stuff has continued to burn them and they go back to it. Maybe something will change there.

 

I don't think they are broke, but that they entered this year at virtually the same payroll and made the decision to split up $16 million among latos, austin, etc vs a star name. Whatever acquisitions that add on money it is going to be a real decision vs. 2015 where they had a reduced 2014 payroll and could actually set market for robertson/duke/melky. That's the differnece from when they were "in" on Gordon and Cespedes (really just trying to get a depressed rate for them in an already depressed market) and when they went into 2015 with money to spend.

 

2016-17 offseason will not be 2014-15

 

[Balta1701]

I don't think they are broke, but that they entered this year at virtually the same payroll and made the decision to split up $16 million among latos, austin, etc vs a star name. Whatever acquisitions that add on money it is going to be a real decision vs. 2015 where they had a reduced 2014 payroll and could actually set market for robertson/duke/melky. That's the differnece from when they were "in" on Gordon and Cespedes (really just trying to get a depressed rate for them in an already depressed market) and when they went into 2015 with money to spend.

 

2016-17 offseason will not be 2014-15

They notably entered this season at the same payroll because $12 million of their payroll retired. They had boosted their payroll on paper by about that amount prior to that happening.

[bmags]

They notably entered this season at the same payroll because $12 million of their payroll retired. They had boosted their payroll on paper by about that amount prior to that happening.

 

Well, whatever, it seemed to replace the Samardjiza money.

[Panerista]

Can't trade Sale, Harper etc without winning the trade on paper. All GMs know this so the potential hauls would be nintendo style. I love Chris and it's retarded to trade a HOFer but the idea of adding tons of top guys to our blossoming system sounds fun

The team trading away the "superstar" rarely, if ever, wins these trades.

[he gone.]

The team trading away the "superstar" rarely, if ever, wins these trades.

 

I also agree with this. Look at the Miggy trade. I don't even know what it was, but no way the Marlins won that trade.

 

Also someone responded this isn't what we think the Sox should do, it's what WE want them to do.

 

If it's up to me? It's tear-down. It's been tear down for quite some time in my mind. If you are the Cubs or Yanks or someone with a hug payroll you could make this team work easily, but the sox won't spend, so tear down.

 

 

Think if the Tigers FO had this exact roster in the offseason... you'd have Cespedes in your OF, you'd have maybe a Zobrist at 2b, and probably signed a nice pitcher ala Lackey.

Eaton, Zobrist, Cespedes, Abreu, Melky, Frazier, Anderson, Avila, Shuck

Sale, Q, Lackey, Rodon, Gonzalez.

 

Amazing how much money can fix a situation. That team would roll for 2-4 years while you build your minors up.

[he gone.]

That's also the part that makes this team infuriating. We have such a nice core to the team - we just need a few pieces to make this thing run like a finely tuned machine. But we wont. We plug with the The Lawries. The Shucks. The Morneaus. Just isn't going to win any WS this way.

[bighurt574]

I wouldn't trade Sale unless I was blown away, but Bregman would be a nice start. Keith Law has him at #1 in his mid-season top prospects. He's been raking. If he were in the Sox org, he'd almost certainly be in the majors by now.

 

 

[bmags]

Honestly not sure our core is that good. What frustrates me in our trade add-on talk is the constant effort to replace below average parts with average parts. But our above average parts aren't picking up enough slack to do that. We need another elite position player and elite pitcher. We're not that good to be fussing with average.

[FT35]

If you were going to do the unthinkable and trade Sale...prospect package from Houston built around 3B Bregman or from Boston built around 2B Moncada? Sox would pretty much have their pick of whoever they want from a prospect standpoint--maybe from a MLB player standpoint as well!

[shipps]

Honestly not sure our core is that good. What frustrates me in our trade add-on talk is the constant effort to replace below average parts with average parts. But our above average parts aren't picking up enough slack to do that. We need another elite position player and elite pitcher. We're not that good to be fussing with average.

 

Our core is Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Anderson. Everyone else should be fair game to trade. Lean on your scouting department and go get your next Uribe or Carlos Quentin....damn that was a long time ago.

[Dunt]

Our core is Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Anderson. Everyone else should be fair game to trade. Lean on your scouting department and go get your next Uribe or Carlos Quentin....damn that was a long time ago.

 

And Eaton and Fulmer

[shipps]

And Eaton and Fulmer

 

Fulmer, yes. Eaton, I dont have to consider him part of "the core". I am not downplaying Eaton but he isnt untouchable in any way as far as I am concerned.