Abreu and Frazier

[greg775]

Let's put it this way... When the pinch ran Saladino for Melky in the 9th - I was pissed. Why?

 

Because I wanted a contact hitter like Saladino up there for Frazier in that situation.

The Sox decision makers have pegged Saladino the last guy on the roster at least as far as non pitchers. That is obvious. IMO it's a mistake. I think he has a clue at the plate and should be playing.

[kitekrazy]

If you need your number 3 hitter to bunt in order to score a run, then your team sucks

 

So does your #3 hitter.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Let's put it this way... When the pinch ran Saladino for Melky in the 9th - I was pissed. Why?

 

Because I wanted a contact hitter like Saladino up there for Frazier in that situation.

 

You honestly think anyone would pinch hit Saladino for Frazier ? It might make sense on some level knowing Frazier batting average with men in scoring position but no one pinch hits for a #5 hitter with a bench scrub ever. It's almost as bad for calling for Abreu to bunt.

[sin city sox fan]

You guys can call me a troll all you want......but if the 9th inning was played my way (and the way I believe any major league manager with smarts would have played it), we would have broken the scoring drought and had a tied ball game. Instead, the "common sense" way you argue for allowed the team to continue its streak of futility and post another loss. Sure, I'm a troll for arguing for the option which would have provided this team with an opportunity to win.

[GGajewski18]

You guys can call me a troll all you want......but if the 9th inning was played my way (and the way I believe any major league manager with smarts would have played it), we would have broken the scoring drought and had a tied ball game. Instead, the "common sense" way you argue for allowed the team to continue its streak of futility and post another loss. Sure, I'm a troll for arguing for the option which would have provided this team with an opportunity to win.

 

Bunt with your 3 hitter? Enough dude. No manager would bunt with their 3 hitter who was 2-3 before that at bat.

[GreenSox]

Let's put it this way... When the pinch ran Saladino for Melky in the 9th - I was pissed. Why?

 

Because I wanted a contact hitter like Saladino up there for Frazier in that situation.

The Sox won't give Saladino 1 or 2 spot starts a week in this bottom 1/3 offense; they certainly won't use him as pinch hitter for one of their best hitters (or one they perceive as such). The reality is that Saladino has improved a lot as a hitter this year (albeit in a small sample size). But once the White Sox org. deems someone, especially a young player, as worthy of a limited role, that's that.

 

As for Frazier, I certainly hope he had a rousing, delightful time playing home run derby, he so begged the Sox to allow him to do.

[hi8is]

You honestly think anyone would pinch hit Saladino for Frazier ? It might make sense on some level knowing Frazier batting average with men in scoring position but no one pinch hits for a #5 hitter with a bench scrub ever. It's almost as bad for calling for Abreu to bunt.

I know it's not "practical" but I also know that there's a lot of good logic behind it. I didn't for a second actually think it was going to happen - but I felt at the time that was the right move to make to manufacture the tying run. In that situation, on that night, with 3 horrid at bats already in the books... It was very likely Frazier was gonna K.

 

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out in the 9th - 1 run game. Fast dude on third too. You don't need a flipping strike out. Fraizer looked AWFUL against Shoemaker all night. He was consistently down 0-2. He was consistently going out of the zone for strike three at embarrising levels.

 

It wasn't a conventional call but it was the right one.

[GGajewski18]

The Sox won't give Saladino 1 or 2 spot starts a week in this bottom 1/3 offense; they certainly won't use him as pinch hitter for one of their best hitters (or one they perceive as such). The reality is that Saladino has improved a lot as a hitter this year (albeit in a small sample size). But once the White Sox org. deems someone, especially a young player, as worthy of a limited role, that's that.

 

As for Frazier, I certainly hope he had a rousing, delightful time playing home run derby, he so begged the Sox to allow him to do.

 

Why are you grilling Frazier for participating in the HR derby? Who cares?

[The Sir]

Why are you grilling Frazier for participating in the HR derby? Who cares?

 

Because he was hitting .213. I think it's pretty s***ty to be a hugely negative factor for your team and expect to compete in a meaningless All-Star competition.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I know it's not "practical" but I also know that there's a lot of good logic behind it. I didn't for a second actually think it was going to happen - but I felt at the time that was the right move to make to manufacture the tying run. In that situation, on that night, with 3 horrid at bats already in the books... It was very likely Frazier was gonna K.

 

Runners on 1st and 3rd with one out in the 9th - 1 run game. Fast dude on third too. You don't need a flipping strike out. Fraizer looked AWFUL against Shoemaker all night. He was consistently down 0-2. He was consistently going out of the zone for strike three at embarrising levels.

 

It wasn't a conventional call but it was the right one.

 

I applaud your conviction on the matter but when you do something like that it goes against all conventional wisdom no matter what Frazier had done all game.It's only the right call if Saladino actually gets the run in and even if he does you have to take into consideration what a move like that is saying to Frazier and the rest of the clubhouse..

 

I can confidently say no manager makes that move because if it doesn't work you look like a damn fool. You have to roll with your best players in those situations because you will lose the respect of every one of your players except Saladino . Since Frazier has more power it means he is more likely to hit a long fly ball or even a HR than Saladino. Even Saladino would probably be asking why the hell are you pinch hitting me for Frazier and would be feeling tremendous pressure to come through. Also Fraziers K rate is only slightly higher than Saladino's if how I calculated K% (K's divided by plate appearances) is correct.

 

And failure means not only looking like a damn fool but you also probably make national headlines for looking like a damn fool and maybe being accused of intentionally trying to lose which gets you fired. As a fan it's easy to say you would've done it but you really wouldn't even ever become a manager to be in that situation if you ever pulled a stunt like that previously.

Edited July 17, 2016 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

Because he was hitting .213. I think it's pretty s***ty to be a hugely negative factor for your team and expect to compete in a meaningless All-Star competition.

 

It is the home run derby, not the batting average derby. It literally doesn't matter a bit what his batting average was for the contest. He also didn't "expect" it. He was asked to do it by Major League Baseball, which is an honor that players shouldn't take lightly.

[elrockinMT]

He couldn't lay down a bunt in the 9th inning though in a situation that would have led to a tied game. Either he is incompetent or Robin was just an idiot. Regardless, something gotta change.

 

 

I couldn't believe this was a legitimate post. We had a runner in scoring position and our alleged RBI men coming up and you want him to bunt? You don't pay Abreu or Frazier to bunt. I think both at bats by those guys in the 9th were garbage but I guess you have to hand it to Shoemaker.

[GGajewski18]

Because he was hitting .213. I think it's pretty s***ty to be a hugely negative factor for your team and expect to compete in a meaningless All-Star competition.

 

Stanton was hitting 230. Got a beef with him doing it too?

[pettie4sox]

Frazier is what he is.

 

Doesn't make adjustments, K's a lot, homers, and walks.

[Lillian]

He did have an awful second half, last year, after winning the HR Derby. That competition has messed up a few hitters, over the years. If that happens again, this team is going to be just awful. His only value on offense is his ability to hit home runs. Once that goes, he will be worthless, and certainly not capable of being a middle of the order hitter. Just imagine what the offense would look like, if that happens. Yikes!!!

[GreenSox]

It is the home run derby, not the batting average derby. It literally doesn't matter a bit what his batting average was for the contest. He also didn't "expect" it. He was asked to do it by Major League Baseball, which is an honor that players shouldn't take lightly.

He was giddy about playing that thing. It's a common exhibition. The All Star Game is an honor.

OPS in the .660 range last year post home run derby.

Off to a roaring start this year: 1/8 and can't hit a sacrifice fly. Maybe a different approach toward the season's second half might have been in order.

 

It's summer holiday camp.

[southsider2k5]

He was giddy about playing that thing. It's a common exhibition. The All Star Game is an honor.

OPS in the .660 range last year post home run derby.

Off to a roaring start this year: 1/8 and can't hit a sacrifice fly. Maybe a different approach toward the season's second half might have been in order.

 

It's summer holiday camp.

 

Literally none of what you said has any bearing at all on the Home Run Derby. It is just bitter for bitterness sake. Of course he should be giddy about the derby. Being asked to take part in the competition is limited to 8 players in all of baseball. It is actually a more exclusive honor than the all star game. Being upset about Frazier in the HRD is just looking for something to b**** about.

[hi8is]

I applaud your conviction on the matter but when you do something like that it goes against all conventional wisdom no matter what Frazier had done all game.It's only the right call if Saladino actually gets the run in and even if he does you have to take into consideration what a move like that is saying to Frazier and the rest of the clubhouse..

 

I can confidently say no manager makes that move because if it doesn't work you look like a damn fool. You have to roll with your best players in those situations because you will lose the respect of every one of your players except Saladino . Since Frazier has more power it means he is more likely to hit a long fly ball or even a HR than Saladino. Even Saladino would probably be asking why the hell are you pinch hitting me for Frazier and would be feeling tremendous pressure to come through. Also Fraziers K rate is only slightly higher than Saladino's if how I calculated K% (K's divided by plate appearances) is correct.

 

And failure means not only looking like a damn fool but you also probably make national headlines for looking like a damn fool and maybe being accused of intentionally trying to lose which gets you fired. As a fan it's easy to say you would've done it but you really wouldn't even ever become a manager to be in that situation if you ever pulled a stunt like that previously.

National headlines? That's just as ludicrous as me wanting to PH for Fraizer!

 

Cheers brother

[greg775]

The Sox won't give Saladino 1 or 2 spot starts a week in this bottom 1/3 offense; they certainly won't use him as pinch hitter for one of their best hitters (or one they perceive as such). The reality is that Saladino has improved a lot as a hitter this year (albeit in a small sample size). But once the White Sox org. deems someone, especially a young player, as worthy of a limited role, that's that.

 

As for Frazier, I certainly hope he had a rousing, delightful time playing home run derby, he so begged the Sox to allow him to do.

This discussion is kind of silly. You don't, like many have said, pinch hit a guy who SHOULD be able to hit a fly ball there for Saladino. That's ridiculous. Frazier is our highly paid starting slugger. It's the spot you WANT him to be in. Just because we Sox fans knew he was toast there, doesn't mean you pinch hit for him. It would have been national news there, sure it would have. Saladino for Frazier just cause he figures to make contact? Can't ever do something like that. It would be an embarrassment to Frazier, saying he can't hit a fly ball there.

Edited July 17, 2016 by greg775

[Panerista]

Stanton was hitting 230. Got a beef with him doing it too?

Stanton doesn't play for the White Sox. Frazier does. I see where this is coming from.

[The Sir]

It is the home run derby, not the batting average derby. It literally doesn't matter a bit what his batting average was for the contest. He also didn't "expect" it. He was asked to do it by Major League Baseball, which is an honor that players shouldn't take lightly.

 

That's not the point. He has played poorly this year (solo homeruns aside). He could have used the ASB to rest, think about his issues and work on a way to not suck so much. Instead, he chose to spend it cavorting with actual stars and playing in a silly exhibition. As much as Frazier's word often come off as selfless, this action comes off as selfish.

 

As for Stanton's BA, Deadpool nailed it. Dude doesn't play for us.

[southsider2k5]

That's not the point. He has played poorly this year (solo homeruns aside). He could have used the ASB to rest, think about his issues and work on a way to not suck so much. Instead, he chose to spend it cavorting with actual stars and playing in a silly exhibition. As much as Frazier's word often come off as selfless, this action comes off as selfish.

 

As for Stanton's BA, Deadpool nailed it. Dude doesn't play for us.

 

That is a freaking impressive double standard. Pure hypocrisy, not to mention nonsensical. Apparently thinking about baseball is going to fix his baseball problems, but being around the best players in the world won't achieve anything and is cavorting. Nah, I am sure the answer is found in the ass-grove of his lazy boy. Makes total sense, right?

[LittleHurt05]

That's not the point. He has played poorly this year (solo homeruns aside). He could have used the ASB to rest, think about his issues and work on a way to not suck so much. Instead, he chose to spend it cavorting with actual stars and playing in a silly exhibition. As much as Frazier's word often come off as selfless, this action comes off as selfish.

 

As for Stanton's BA, Deadpool nailed it. Dude doesn't play for us.

 

Judging from your post, I assume you are a sports psychologist? You are fully aware of Frazier's current mental state and you are certain that spending four days at home with his family thinking about baseball would have guaranteed success in the 2nd half. As opposed to playing more baseball with the best players in the league. I wish you would have passed that info onto the White Sox front office a few weeks ago.

[The Sir]

I might have worded it poorly, but we're just not going to agree on this. If a guy is playing horribly and killing his team, I don't appreciate seeing him ham it up at a pointless exhibition during a potential break.

[GreenSox]

Literally none of what you said has any bearing at all on the Home Run Derby. It is just bitter for bitterness sake. Of course he should be giddy about the derby. Being asked to take part in the competition is limited to 8 players in all of baseball. It is actually a more exclusive honor than the all star game. Being upset about Frazier in the HRD is just looking for something to b**** about.

Plenty of players and teams pass on home run derby.

 

How do you know it has no bearing? Pure coincidence he tanked last year after the HRD? 4 days of rest can't possibly help a ballplayer in a year long funk? Especially when the alternative is a high energy game? Really? I Dont know if there is causation- but there's a lot of correlation.

I don't hold any bitterness toward Frazier as I never thought he as anything special. He hasn't overly disappointed me. But you might look in the mirror on the bitterness front.

Edited July 18, 2016 by GreenSox