White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[iamshack]

Let's just think logically here... what signal would that send to Jerry? "Hey sorry man...but your going to be dead by the time we compete"?

 

Exactly what he wants!

No, it should signal "this is the way to give you a dynasty instead of a f***ing 're-tool'"

[GoGoSox2k2]

Given how aggressive Dombrowski is, I wouldn't be shocked if he said:

 

-Pick 1 of (JBJ, Betts, Moncada)

-Any three other prospects you want

 

 

If the Sox turned down Betts + any other 3 prospects we wanted from there system and the Sox said a flat "no". Then that is very disappointing

[Bob Sacamano]

So much smoke.

[fathom]

If the Sox turned down Betts + any other 3 prospects we wanted from there system and the Sox said a flat "no". Then that is very disappointing

 

Sox don't need betts. Already have a 30/30 guy in Avi, so it's redundant to get another

[fathom]

Pirates going after Q is my dark horse team. Have some great prospect depth, headed by nice trade chips in Glasnow and Bell.

[Chicago White Sox]

I really hope that this front office and ownership group doesn't blow this current opportunity. You don't have to move Sale or Quintana right now, but you should be actively listening on all offers and prepared to move them in the offseason.

[Chisoxfn]

Pirates going after Q is my dark horse team. Have some great prospect depth, headed by nice trade chips in Glasnow and Bell.

Q or Sale could be legit options for Pirates. Not often aces who have great contracts are on the market. The beauty of Sale & Q is that they might actually be more valuable to smaller market clubs who have the prospects, than say the larger market clubs who might not get as big of a "benefit" from the "discounted / surplus" contract that the players have.

 

I.e., with the Dodgers and their payroll, the benefits of a cheap ace like Sale are not near as critical as to a team like the Pirates, etc. That isn't to say the value doesn't exist, I just think the overall benefit is greater for teams who can't hand out the major FA contracts.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Reports out there that the Cubs are in on Reddick. Always thought he would look good in a Sox uniform. I guess the rich just get richer...

 

Depressing time to be a Sox fan. I don't expect the Sox to make any major moves. They will just sit on their hands like last year.

[Harry Chappas]

Pirates going after Q is my dark horse team. Have some great prospect depth, headed by nice trade chips in Glasnow and Bell.

 

I think Melky is a guy they could use as well.

 

I have no faith in this organization doing anything right as they failed miserably on their evaluation of Avi Garcia. The 30/30 centerfielder that can't play the outfield, run the bases or hit for power.

 

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Reports out there that the Cubs are in on Reddick. Always thought he would look good in a Sox uniform. I guess the rich just get richer...

 

Depressing time to be a Sox fan. I don't expect the Sox to make any major moves. They will just sit on their hands like last year.

 

Werent you just saying that you want to sell? Why would it be a good idea for the Sox to trade for a rental?

[Balta1701]

Q or Sale could be legit options for Pirates. Not often aces who have great contracts are on the market. The beauty of Sale & Q is that they might actually be more valuable to smaller market clubs who have the prospects, than say the larger market clubs who might not get as big of a "benefit" from the "discounted / surplus" contract that the players have.

 

I.e., with the Dodgers and their payroll, the benefits of a cheap ace like Sale are not near as critical as to a team like the Pirates, etc. That isn't to say the value doesn't exist, I just think the overall benefit is greater for teams who can't hand out the major FA contracts.

Someone posted the Pirates the other day and after trying to write about why it wouldn't work I talked myself into thinking they have the means to get it done.

 

The problem is on both sides though. Fair payment for one of these guys is their top 3 prospects (taillon, Glasnow, Meadows, plus their catching prospect) and the Pirates aren't going to give up both pitchers plus meadows in the same deal and I don't care who its for...and the White Sox aren't going to move these guys.

[Harry Chappas]

Someone posted the Pirates the other day and after trying to write about why it wouldn't work I talked myself into thinking they have the means to get it done.

 

The problem is on both sides though. Fair payment for one of these guys is their top 3 prospects (taillon, Glasnow, Meadows, plus their catching prospect) and the Pirates aren't going to give up both pitchers plus meadows in the same deal and I don't care who its for...and the White Sox aren't going to move these guys.

 

I think there needs to be some creativity with a three way deal so one team does not deplete their system but two systems take a hit to a degree.

[Flash Tizzle]

I really hope that this front office and ownership group doesn't blow this current opportunity. You don't have to move Sale or Quintana right now, but you should be actively listening on all offers and prepared to move them in the offseason.

They'll blow it because it's easier to field a mediocre team with the chance (albeit slim) of competing, then taking a chance admitting fault and rebuilding.

 

No, we rather trade either Sale or Quintana when they're ineffective and have very limited value. Won't it be a shame years from now if we continue missing the playoffs AND don't receive anything of value from either pitcher? I feel that's where being on the fence will get us.

[NCsoxfan]

Way we could blow it is the same way we blew it (arguably) with Peavy. We tried to get cute and "rebuild on the fly" and traded for Avi in the 3-way instead of getting legit prospects.

[FT35]

Reports out there that the Cubs are in on Reddick. Always thought he would look good in a Sox uniform. I guess the rich just get richer...

 

Depressing time to be a Sox fan. I don't expect the Sox to make any major moves. They will just sit on their hands like last year.

 

Hang in there bud! We're all in this together and feel the same way. You just gotta love the game and appreciate what it takes to win. At least look at it this way...if we're sellers, the next 11 days will be exciting times to be a Sox fan to see who all we get. Out with the old, in with the new. How confident are we in our FO to make the right moves and maximize our returns!? NOT SO MUCH! But we can have fun looking up prospects, speculating and debating deals. I'm sure the MLB team will pepper a few wins for us to relish in over the next couple weeks too. Plus, watching young players come up and debut is exciting--who knows...maybe a future Hall-of-Famer debuts with us THIS year?!!? Who's with me?!?? Crickets!??

[Panerista]

Reports out there that the Cubs are in on Reddick. Always thought he would look good in a Sox uniform. I guess the rich just get richer...

 

Depressing time to be a Sox fan. I don't expect the Sox to make any major moves. They will just sit on their hands like last year.

The Cubs have earned it. We can, too but we have to start from the bottom, which is hard.

[Bob Sacamano]

The Cubs have earned it. We can, too but we have to start from the bottom, which is hard.

 

I'm willing to wait out a rebuild. I've lost so much interest in the season the past week.

Edited July 21, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Quin]

Way we could blow it is the same way we blew it (arguably) with Peavy. We tried to get cute and "rebuild on the fly" and traded for Avi in the 3-way instead of getting legit prospects.

 

...Avi was a legit prospect.

 

Just because he busted doesn't mean he wasn't legit.

[Panerista]

I'm willing to wait out a rebuild. I've lost so much interest in the season the past week.

Me too. 100% agree. I would be willing to watch a rebuild over this garbage product.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Way we could blow it is the same way we blew it (arguably) with Peavy. We tried to get cute and "rebuild on the fly" and traded for Avi in the 3-way instead of getting legit prospects.

 

 

...Avi was a legit prospect.

 

Just because he busted doesn't mean he wasn't legit.

 

They did not blow it with Peavy. Aside from Avi they got Frankie Montas (a very legit prospect used to acquire Frazier), JB Wendelken (part of the Lawrie trade) and Cleuluis Rondon (jury's still out on, still young).

 

Not to mention the fact that the money saved from moving Peavy was used to sign Abreu the following offseason.

 

[Dunt]

If the White Sox try another half assed retooling effort, will that honestly bring anyone out to the ballpark next year? We already talk about the inability to rebuild because attendance wouldnt support it, but I see no way the fanbase buys into next season without a heavy free agent investment or an influx of prospects coming in.

[Quin]

They did not blow it with Peavy. Aside from Avi they got Frankie Montas (a very legit prospect used to acquire Frazier), JB Wendelken (part of the Lawrie trade) and Cleuluis Rondon (jury's still out on, still young).

 

Not to mention the fact that the money saved from moving Peavy was used to sign Abreu the following offseason.

 

Yup.

 

A Top 100 prospect + two elite tooled fliers (Montas' fastball, Rondon's defense) and a projectable reliever isn't blowing a trade for a rental pitcher.

[HeGone7]

Not big on posting anymore but always follow this site.

 

I can't be the only one utterly fed up with how this organization is run. To me, the Sox HAVE to sell, and sell nearly everything. This is a broken system. Your organization top-to-bottom is mediocre at best.

 

"If you always do, what you've always done. You'll always get, what you always got."

 

You cannot keep assembling a team of cast-offs, veterans, minor leaguers and 1-2 legit superstar players and expect them to catch lightning in a bottle. Every year it's the same conversation, "we were mediocre last year but if this guy plays up to his potential, and this guy breaks out, and this guy does this - then we have a chance at 90+ wins."

 

And every single year, it flops. The Sox answer to this is, "lets sign someone else mediocre or trade for another mediocre player." All this is, is a Band-Aid. You're not fixing your problem.

 

I think the Sox are in a very tough spot right now as an organization. I think the core of the fan base will always be there and I don't follow this to the extreme, but I'd imagine the organization financially is ok. But when you have kids coming up, your future fan base, and you're a joke while the team competing with you for fan base in the city is borderline great - you're in a world of problems. I've been to two games this season and am not ashamed to say that. I don't feel obligated to spend money on a not serious product.

 

The Sox are not serious about winning. Everything about this organization screams that. You have an inept owner incapable of spending what needs to be spent. You don't need a 200 million dollar payroll, but when you scout like the Sox do, you do need it. Because you have nothing of value in the minors and nothing available for immediate impact far too often. So you can't be a middle-tier payroll in those cases.

 

Their front office and management is a joke. It's like a family, which is admirable, but sometimes you need to disassociate. How Ventura has a job blows my mind. Why KW and/or Hahn are still around is another. Anyone in the scouting department pre-Hostetler should've been fired. Most of them still should be.

 

You do not have the pieces to acquire a star player or 2. That is sadly what this team needs. The "stars" if you can call them that, are incredibly flawed w/the exception of Sale. Even Q, not his fault, but he is flawed in that he just isn't perceived elsewhere like we view him. At least from a fan perspective. Same can be said for Eaton.

 

Unfortunately, the position they're in is their own fault. And they need to sell. If by some miracle people are willing to pay you a premium for Q and Eaton, which their statistical value suggests but that "perception" may not exist, then maybe you don't have to move Sale since that is most of what I hear is difficult for the Sox fanbase to swallow.

 

People fear this rebuilding process, but if this is done correctly, you will not have a lengthy rebuild. The Sox are in such a great spot that you can net probably 10 of the top 50-100 prospects in baseball, amongst others, in a full scale fire sale. Many of those guys being top 30 range guys in a Sale, Q, Eaton deal. I would think Frazier can net 1. Abreu I'm not sure about these days.

 

This isn't a rebuild where you have a bare cupboard. You would have assembled the best farm in baseball. Easily. Most of which are ready to contribute and you'll have 100 million free to spend on whatever you want. Next years class is weak, but a 2 year flier on a Bautista, should he hit the market mixed with several prospects and I'd be relatively excited/interested. He's just for example sake, don't freak out about age and what not. It's a legit 30 homer bat in your lineup and a guy with some charisma for selling seats.

 

People were so thrilled about Anderson and his arrival. Think of 5 or 6 better versions of Anderson on this team offensively. Think of 2 or 3 arms that have potential to be better than Q and Rodon, may not ever be Sale, but I'd argue 27 teams in baseball don't have that and they can all win. You're not selling to acquire long-term projects like SD got. Your chips are far more valuable and you'll see the fruition immediately. Which generates excitement in your fan base, or lack thereof.

 

The other big misconception is that you need all of these guys to pan out to their full potential. I don't remotely expect that. The hope is what you get nets you a few stars who pan out and then several good ballplayers. Some busts are likel. Look at the Royals. They had the "greatest farm ever" a few years ago and as each guy came up, they didn't quite meet the hype. And yet, they still won. Some guys can still be valuable after not completely panning out. They don't have to totally flame out like a Beckham.

 

If they sold everything and got an influx of 12-15 guys lets say. That means Sale, Q, Eaton (our 3rd most valuable chip and a guy who shouldn't be dealt for less), Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Jones, Duke, Robertson. To me, that's like 12-15 guys you're getting back minimum especially if people expect more than 4 for Sale.

 

If 3 of them pan out, by pan out I mean reach their talent like a Betts or Bryant have, that's all you'd want. You have cornerstones at that point. Cheap ones. Flexibility to spend and bring in the deficiencies or trade a couple for parts you need. This isn't the Cubs drafting top 5 for a few years and waiting on that. Our rebuilding process started because most of these guys are ready to come up for other organizations and are either blocked or need to finish this season on the farm.

 

If I'm the Sox, I'm selling everyone but the aforementioned young 3. I'm telling teams no chance on Sale and unless teams are paying the premium Eaton warrants, I'm telling them he isn't available. Drive up the price on those two by maxing out what you receive on the other guys. Then, last minute, you make them available and you've established a floor for value. If you get a haul for Q, who would be perceived as the best arm available, you're only going to get that much more for Sale. When Eaton, and his #2 overall defensive WAR, and top 12 overall WAR hit the market, you strike on that as well.

 

Sorry for the long post but this was a much needed venting process. If they stand pat, I'm not sure I'll be willing to stomach another year of this organization or baseball anymore.

Edited July 21, 2016 by HeGone7

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason?

 

There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason.

[Panerista]

Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason?

 

There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason.

Right. It's a trade off. Right now, teams are more desperate. In the offseason there are more teams interested but they're not as liable to be stupid.

 

What a difference half a season make. I would love to see the percentage of people here who want a full rebuild now.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Deadpool