White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[bmags]

We are gonna be so bummed when we trade Melky Cabrera for some 8-10 team prospect.

[Quin]

We are gonna be so bummed when we trade Melky Cabrera for some 8-10 team prospect.

 

I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that.

 

Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically."

[Bob Sacamano]

I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that.

 

Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically."

 

I wouldn't be bummed either but if a team offers a huge haul in the next 10 days, I wouldn't be too upset if they dealt either.

[Quin]

I wouldn't be bummed either but if a team offers a huge haul in the next 10 days, I wouldn't be too upset if they dealt either.

 

This is about where I'm at.

 

If we build the next core around Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer and Anderson I won't be mad. Maybe Eaton and Abreu stick around.

 

Pray that Hostetler's drafts keep looking positive.

[bmags]

I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that.

 

Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically."

 

I will be bummed, because that means we'll continue to have a paper thin team with no depth which is the opposite of what we should be trying to achieve by selling. I like having sale as a pitcher, it's great, but the overall sox experience is just constant hope and disappointment that they can make a run. And its irrational because they aren't talented.

 

The warnings of Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia is you can't trade for 1 prospect and assume he makes it, like Hahn did. We need jump shot to the arm, and with the LatAm kids finally coming stateside, 2 straight solid drafts, and an infusion of talent from trades, and a large drop in payroll, we could then go into 2018 with lots of young talent and payroll flexibility to try and add hte home run.

[Chicago White Sox]

This is about where I'm at.

 

If we build the next core around Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer and Anderson I won't be mad. Maybe Eaton and Abreu stick around.

 

Pray that Hostetler's drafts keep looking positive.

How in the world do you build a core around those guys before Sale hits free agency in three years? Collins might only need one season in the minors, but even college guys like Call & Fisher will need two. And honestly, there isn't much there after those three except for maybe Engel & Trey M and both are huge wild cards at this point.

 

Honestly, there's no rational argument to hold onto Sale & Quintana at this point.

[shipps]

The only thing that sticks with me that I cant shake is that Sale is a potential HOF one day and that doesnt usually work out well for teams that trade those guys away in the middle of their prime years. Quintana on the other hand is one hell of a pitcher but not a HOF player and could get us a really good haul in his own right. Makes a lot more sense to trade Q. It will still hurt to see him leave but not to the magnitude of Sale and we should still get an awesome return.

[ptatc]

I will be bummed, because that means we'll continue to have a paper thin team with no depth which is the opposite of what we should be trying to achieve by selling. I like having sale as a pitcher, it's great, but the overall sox experience is just constant hope and disappointment that they can make a run. And its irrational because they aren't talented.

 

The warnings of Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia is you can't trade for 1 prospect and assume he makes it, like Hahn did. We need jump shot to the arm, and with the LatAm kids finally coming stateside, 2 straight solid drafts, and an infusion of talent from trades, and a large drop in payroll, we could then go into 2018 with lots of young talent and payroll flexibility to try and add hte home run.

The big issue with trading Sale AND Quintana is that it makes it really difficult to compete for the world series for the foreseeable future.

 

Teams needs at least 2 top of the rotation starters to have a good shot at winning the World series. If not they could get lucky but will more or less not have that realistic chance.

 

The cubs for all the hype are relying on a veteran acquired in a minor deal, who decided to become one of the best pitchers in baseball later in his career.

[ptatc]

The only thing that sticks with me that I cant shake is that Sale is a potential HOF one day and that doesnt usually work out well for teams that trade those guys away in the middle of their prime years. Quintana on the other hand is one hell of a pitcher but not a HOF player and could get us a really good haul in his own right. Makes a lot more sense to trade Q. It will still hurt to see him leave but not to the magnitude of Sale and we should still get an awesome return.

I agree with this.

[Quin]

How in the world do you build a core around those guys before Sale hits free agency in three years? Collins might only need one season in the minors, but even college guys like Call & Fisher will need two. And honestly, there isn't much there after those three except for maybe Engel & Trey M and both are huge wild cards at this point.

 

Honestly, there's no rational argument to hold onto Sale & Quintana at this point.

 

One's a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher and the other is an ace.

 

Maybe it works out, maybe it's a scenario with two King Felixs.

 

But everyone wants to emulate the Cubs - yeah, they traded Samardzjia, but their rotation is big FA signings and a failed prospect suddenly becoming god.

[bmags]

The big issue with trading Sale AND Quintana is that it makes it really difficult to compete for the world series for the foreseeable future.

 

Teams needs at least 2 top of the rotation starters to have a good shot at winning the World series. If not they could get lucky but will more or less not have that realistic chance.

 

The cubs for all the hype are relying on a veteran acquired in a minor deal, who decided to become one of the best pitchers in baseball later in his career.

 

SOrry, to be clear, I don't think we necessarily need to trade both. In some sense, opening up both may devalue them, in opening up supply of great cost-controlled pitchers. I love Q, he is the best thing. But, this is a case where we may be wise to sell high as a kite on our best buy low piece of all time. We unfortunately just didn't time him right.

[ptatc]

SOrry, to be clear, I don't think we necessarily need to trade both. In some sense, opening up both may devalue them, in opening up supply of great cost-controlled pitchers. I love Q, he is the best thing. But, this is a case where we may be wise to sell high as a kite on our best buy low piece of all time. We unfortunately just didn't time him right.

I agree. i'm just worried about the scenario where others want to "SELL EVERYBODY" i don't think that would turn out well.

[bmags]

One's a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher and the other is an ace.

 

Maybe it works out, maybe it's a scenario with two King Felixs.

 

But everyone wants to emulate the Cubs - yeah, they traded Samardzjia, but their rotation is big FA signings and a failed prospect suddenly becoming god.

 

It's not just the cubs, I can't find an MLB team that gives me hope sox will make it. All of the good teams just had a wave of young talent come up at once. The phillies are doing a good job, the reds are not. I would have liked us to go balls to the wall in international market, we didn't. Those teams now have dominating teams with all of those LatAm pieces to trdae for proven pieces. That's where I want to be in 3 years. A young, promising team with payroll flexibility to add and farm flexibility to trade. We are sooooo far from that.

 

The only team operating close to white sox is Tigers, except they have 80 million more to play with.

[Jose Abreu]

I think Dave meant that he'll be able to release more information by mid-afternoon, not that a trade will go down. But we'll see

[ptatc]

This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying.

 

I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific.

 

Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math).

This seems like the best bet. Hopefully, they should get at least 1 or 2 MLB ready players in the positions who mentioned. This will 2-3 holes to fill over the next year or two.

[NCsoxfan]

This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying.

 

I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific.

 

Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math).

 

If you read Hahn's comments it sounds like he's realizing that the current makeup isn't working & we're mired in mediocrity. I'm not so sure that trading 2-3 guys solves this. That's more rebuilding on the fly. It's not that I think this would be a good/bad idea, but not sure it dramatically changes the approach enough.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying.

 

I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific.

 

Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math).

 

In that scenario for 2017 we would have $55.317M tied up in salary before arb raises:

 

Melky $15

Abreu $12.167

Sale $12

Shields $10

Eaton $4

Jones $1.9

Albers $.25

[bjm676]

This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying.

 

I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific.

 

Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math).

 

 

This sounds like a good plan to start. My hope is that Q is the only one traded. I'd hate to see him go, like all of us would. Also, no guarantee that Shields is even around next year. He could opt out, especially with how bad the FA market is next year. Then they are creating even more holes in their team. If they keep Sale, then they would have a possible rotation of sale/Rodon/Fulmer/Gonzalez/?

[Jose Abreu]

If you read Hahn's comments it sounds like he's realizing that the current makeup isn't working & we're mired in mediocrity. I'm not so sure that trading 2-3 guys solves this. That's more rebuilding on the fly. It's not that I think this would be a good/bad idea, but not sure it dramatically changes the approach enough.

I agree. Trading from strengths partially to fill a couple holes only weakens your strengths, thus keeping you in mediocrity. And who knows if filling the holes at various positions with the players we get in these potential trades will even work?

 

I'm down for rebuilding, but let's do it the right way. Keep Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, and maybe Eaton, but everyone else should be up for grabs if the right package comes along. It's a ridiculously good year to be a seller, market-wise, and we'd be foolish to not take advantage.

[ptatc]

I agree. Trading from strengths partially to fill a couple holes only weakens your strengths, thus keeping you in mediocrity. And who knows if filling the holes at various positions with the players we get in these potential trades will even work?

 

I'm down for rebuilding, but let's do it the right way. Keep Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, and maybe Eaton, but everyone else should be up for grabs if the right package comes along. It's a ridiculously good year to be a seller, market-wise, and we'd be foolish to not take advantage.

In this scenario the Sox have no number 1 or number 2 starter. This team will have no realistic shot for years. They are going to be really, really bad.

[Jose Abreu]

In this scenario the Sox have no number 1 or number 2 starter. This team will have no realistic shot for years. They are going to be really, really bad.

Good. I don't want a realistic shot for years. Stock up on first round picks for a few years, draft a good starter, develop Rodon/Fulmer and the starting prospects we get in all these trades, and we'll be fine. I'm more than fine to wait until 2019 or 2020 to be legitimate contenders. I can endure a few seasons of losing and development for the potential reward. It's a hell of a lot better than constant "going for it" seasons that end up with a team that can't even reach .500.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Good. I don't want a realistic shot for years. Stock up on first round picks for a few years, draft a good starter, develop Rodon/Fulmer and the starting prospects we get in all these trades, and we'll be fine. I'm more than fine to wait until 2019 or 2020 to be legitimate contenders. I can endure a few seasons of losing and development for the potential reward. It's a hell of a lot better than constant "going for it" seasons that end up with a team that can't even reach .500.

+1

 

This post hit the nail on the head.

[ptatc]

Good. I don't want a realistic shot for years. Stock up on first round picks for a few years, draft a good starter, develop Rodon/Fulmer and the starting prospects we get in all these trades, and we'll be fine. I'm more than fine to wait until 2019 or 2020 to be legitimate contenders. I can endure a few seasons of losing and development for the potential reward. It's a hell of a lot better than constant "going for it" seasons that end up with a team that can't even reach .500.

That's only 3 years away. The sox will be looking at far longer than that with no top of the rotation starters. Unless you think rodon and Fulmer are 1 and 2 starters. I'm not convinced of that.

[Jose Abreu]

That's only 3 years away. The sox will be looking at far longer than that with no top of the rotation starters. Unless you think rodon and Fulmer are 1 and 2 starters. I'm not convinced of that.

I'm still confident in Rodon to become a dominant pitcher in time. Fulmer, I haven't seen enough of, but you never know. If you couple in the prospects we'd get from these trades (maybe Urias, De Leon, etc.) and the one we draft and likely fast track, 3-4 years isn't that crazy.

[Dunt]

This is loose conjecture and my own analysis. Take it for what you want. I really can't elaborate on more than I am saying.

 

I don't think the Sox will trade Sale. I am not ruling it out, but I'd be pretty much shocked. I don't seem them moving Frazier/Melky/Lawrie but that's more of a guess. The guys that I expect them to have deep conversations about are Quintana/Robertson/Duke. Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox are the teams to watch. I think the Sox think if they can get a return from Quintana/Robertson that is largely comprised of close to MLB ready talent, then they will make the leap. Shields could be moved obviously but I don't have any reason to think anything specific.

 

Essentially, if they move Q/Robertson/Duke they'll go into the offseason with holes at C/CF/DH and then they'll need a decent starter/reliever as well as some depth adds. They'll have the returns from those guys hopefully filling three of those holes and they'll have boatload of money off the books with LaRoche/Robertson/Q/Jackson/Latos/Rollins/Avila/Navarro leaving. Before arb raises, that's almost 50M off the books (rough mental math).

 

I think you are pretty spot on here, especially if you've been reading between the lines of everything that has been said over the last 24-48 hrs. A lot of reassurances Sale isn't going anywhere, but you haven't really heard a thing about Q. I think Robertson and Duke leaving are no brainers, you have no use for them and can get valuable pieces back.