White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[Baron]

I see where you're coming from but if we're not going to trade any of our top trade chips then what's the point? Just try to reload again and again and again life we've been doing? Seems like a bad plan to me at this point.

 

 

I 100 percent agree. Which is why I dont get trading Frazier. If they offload him who's playing 3rd base? I mean they arent giving up on next year I'm guessing. So trading him is silly too.

[Chisoxfn]

If the plan is to rebuild, everyone is for sale in my world. If the whole team is sold and bad, you might as well move Eaton.

It isn't like the plan is to be awful for 5 years. I presume if they do this, they will be looking at either major league players today and / or guys at higher levels who can contribute near term. You could do this without moving some of your big pieces to ensure you can actually be good. Eaton is still around for a while as are others. This doesn't have to be a get rid of everyone and just entirely start over, in fact, I don't know if that is what I'd propose to do. You have to pick and choose and move guys who you think you get enough absolute value for to make it worth your while. If someone makes a strong offer for Eaton, great, but Eaton is really really good, so you don't just trade for the sake of trading and Eaton absolutely can be a cornerstone guy (it isn't easy to find guys like that). Unfortunately, the Sox haven't been able to develop the non-cornerstone people who can be quality, overall players. They have quite a few really really good players but also quite a few really really lousy players.

[Bananarchy]

I 100 percent agree. Which is why I dont get trading Frazier. If they offload him who's playing 3rd base? I mean they arent giving up on next year I'm guessing. So trading him is silly too.

If we're selling, we don't care who plays third base for the current team. Those home runs might get someone to bite at what is otherwise a bad player.

[Rowand44]

I 100 percent agree. Which is why I dont get trading Frazier. If they offload him who's playing 3rd base? I mean they arent giving up on next year I'm guessing. So trading him is silly too.

So is your plan at this point just staying put and trying to add pieces again next offseason? Serious question.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Rowand44

[Baron]

If we're selling, we don't care who plays third base for the current team. Those home runs might get someone to bite at what is otherwise a bad player.

 

 

I'm talking about next year. If you keep Sale and Q your going into next year with the same mentality as this past offseason.

[Bananarchy]

So is your plan at this point just staying put and trying to add pieces again next offseason? Serious question.

Maybe he's actually Rick Hahn.

 

At best, this plan gets interspersed good seasons.

At worst, you get the White Sox.

 

I'm talking about next year. If you keep Sale and Q your going into next year with the same mentality as this past offseason.

So we can be in the same spot next year? Nah. Let's get the rebuild going right away.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Deadpool

[Flash Tizzle]

Maybe the front office will try some kind of half measured "rebuild". They could keep the pitching, but try to assemble a better offense. That has been their biggest weakness. That middle of the order, consisting of Abreu, Melky and Frazier is not really very productive. With Abreu having an off year, and Frazier being an all or nothing slugger, they are not likely to score enough runs to make this squad contenders.

 

Frazier seems to be the trade chip, most likely to net something worthwhile. I like Melky, and his left handed bat, but he is not a #3 or 4 hitter. They need two studs at those two spots. Maybe Collins will be one of them, in a year, or two, but unless Jose rebounds, he doesn't measure up. He has been the biggest disappointment for me, of anyone on the roster. A third consecutive year of .300, with 30 homers and 100 driven in, would have been great, but it doesn't look like he's going to get there.

 

A stellar staff is too hard and too costly to assemble. They have the pieces to accomplish that, and with the potential of Rodon, Fullmer and Hansen, they may ultimately be able to move Sale, or Quintana. However, for the time being, it might make more sense to keep the starting staff together, and try to concentrate on fixing the offense, for next season.

 

I think Frazier and Robertson are the two guys who should be shopped the hardest. Depending upon what they get back, they could then focus on filling the rest of the remaining holes. Does anyone think that Davidson might be capable of holding down the hot corner, next season? If so, the infield could be set with Davidson, Anderson Lawrie and Abreu. If not, they would have to go outside the organization to replace Frazier. I don't like moving Lawrie back to 3RD. I like his defense at second much better and his bat plays pretty well there. There aren't that many second basemen who put up much better offensive numbers than he has, so far.

 

I think that they have to find a good centerfield replacement, in any trade for Frazier and, or Robertson. I believe that most of us agree that Eaton should stay in RF

We're not getting to the playoffs fixing the offense on whomever comes back from trading Frazier and Robertson. Why would we even consider dealing our top HR and RBI producer, anyway? He's hardly the problem.

 

There is no solution that doesn't result in us picking through FA scrap heaps, taking on a bad contract from a smaller market team, or further depleting our farm system.

 

Guys, please think rationally here. This stellar pitching staff of ours does no good with the current offense, and the current offense is not going to improve with tweaking. We need atleast two more 800 ops positional players. Now if you can find that without trading Sale, Quintana, or giving up any more prospects Hahn would unanimously be executive of the year.

[bmags]

It isn't like the plan is to be awful for 5 years. I presume if they do this, they will be looking at either major league players today and / or guys at higher levels who can contribute near term. You could do this without moving some of your big pieces to ensure you can actually be good. Eaton is still around for a while as are others. This doesn't have to be a get rid of everyone and just entirely start over, in fact, I don't know if that is what I'd propose to do. You have to pick and choose and move guys who you think you get enough absolute value for to make it worth your while. If someone makes a strong offer for Eaton, great, but Eaton is really really good, so you don't just trade for the sake of trading and Eaton absolutely can be a cornerstone guy (it isn't easy to find guys like that). Unfortunately, the Sox haven't been able to develop the non-cornerstone people who can be quality, overall players. They have quite a few really really good players but also quite a few really really lousy players.

 

Jason - Just from my point of view, I agree that we don't need to firesale ALL of our young talent, but I do think you market all of them and see if you get a great return for one. If you just trade the old vet on an expiring contract, you'll get some single-a lottery tickets. Trading 1 of our big pieces gives us a chance to really start building a wave of young talent to come up in 2 years. The crappy thing about 2013 is we really were at end of road with a lot of our talent. Peavy was an obvious piece to trade but was old and not an elite pitcher. We should have traded Alexei though I loved every game he played here.

 

The phillies, meanwhile, damn near rebuilt their farm in one year with one trade.

[Lip Man 1]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/cant-tr...x-or-the-bulls/

 

Not saying I completely agree but the point is certainly valid.

 

Mark

[Quin]

There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer.

 

Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul.

Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle.

Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers.

Abreu's name would probably carry some value.

Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value.

Eaton should bring some good value back.

Melky should bring a decent prospect in.

Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect.

Lawrie might.

 

Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery.

[Bananarchy]

There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer.

 

Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul.

Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle.

Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers.

Abreu's name would probably carry some value.

Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value.

Eaton should bring some good value back.

Melky should bring a decent prospect in.

Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect.

Lawrie might.

 

Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery.

Good stuff. I agree with all of this. I think the core of this fanbase can deal with being bad for a couple of season. The fickle fans already skip the games as is. At least our attendance would make sense.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Deadpool

[Baron]

So is your plan at this point just staying put and trying to add pieces again next offseason? Serious question.

 

 

That's probably what they would do yes and if the management stays that's what I would like them to do.

 

I have zero faith that they can actually sell guys like Q and Sale for the correct price without severely damaging our future.

[Whisox05]

#WhiteSox will have opportunities to move Zach Duke, who leads AL with 48 appearances. Signed for $5.5M next year. Many teams want LH pen.

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/756165236009291776

[Baron]

#WhiteSox will have opportunities to move Zach Duke, who leads AL with 48 appearances. Signed for $5.5M next year. Many teams want LH pen.

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/756165236009291776

 

I've wanted Zack Duke gone the moment we signed him so this would be pleasant news.

[bmags]

There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer.

 

Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul.

Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle.

Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers.

Abreu's name would probably carry some value.

Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value.

Eaton should bring some good value back.

Melky should bring a decent prospect in.

Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect.

Lawrie might.

 

Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still.

 

Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery.

 

Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play.

 

[Bananarchy]

Heyman reporting Fulmer, Frazier, Robertson top Sox trading chips.

 

I can't see a reason to move Fulmer over Sale, Q if we're selling.

[Chisoxfn]

Jason - Just from my point of view, I agree that we don't need to firesale ALL of our young talent, but I do think you market all of them and see if you get a great return for one. If you just trade the old vet on an expiring contract, you'll get some single-a lottery tickets. Trading 1 of our big pieces gives us a chance to really start building a wave of young talent to come up in 2 years. The crappy thing about 2013 is we really were at end of road with a lot of our talent. Peavy was an obvious piece to trade but was old and not an elite pitcher. We should have traded Alexei though I loved every game he played here.

 

The phillies, meanwhile, damn near rebuilt their farm in one year with one trade.

I already said, everyone should be on the market, with very limited exceptions, but their are certain people who I am more likely to take best available offer vs. others who if I don't get at least X, I'm not making the deal. You don't have to do it all by the end of this month, although there are some guys who we absolutely should move, imo, by the end of the month (if the club is intending to sell).

[Bananarchy]

Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play.

Realistically, if this team is rebuilding, hopefully we'll be excited about draft picks by the time year three rolls around. The idea of being excited about the future would be so refreshing.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Deadpool

[Bob Sacamano]

Heyman reporting Fulmer, Frazier, Robertson top Sox trading chips.

 

I can't see a reason to move Fulmer over Sale, Q if we're selling.

 

Probably means Fulmer if we're buying, other 2 if selling.

[Quin]

Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play.

 

The misery is that Q and Sale will be gone, to be honest. Sale's on a HoF track and Q's the type that could pitch for a long time and be an all-time Sox pitcher. It'd just suck.

[Bananarchy]

The misery is that Q and Sale will be gone, to be honest. Sale's on a HoF track and Q's the type that could pitch for a long time and be an all-time Sox pitcher. It'd just suck.

The real misery is that Q and Sale look to finish their White Sox tenures without sniffing the playoffs. It already sucks.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Deadpool

[Baron]

No the real misery will be if prospects start failing...that's when the best of this forum comes out

[Bananarchy]

No the real misery will be if prospects start failing...that's when the best of this forum comes out

I dunno, before this season I looked at the Astros and thought "maybe the rebuild won't work", but they're good again and that middle of the lineup is incredible. And the White Sox, unlike the Pirates of yesteryear, can afford to keep their players when they find good ones.

[flavum]

The misery is that Q and Sale will be gone, to be honest. Sale's on a HoF track and Q's the type that could pitch for a long time and be an all-time Sox pitcher. It'd just suck.

 

The thing is, you never know with pitchers when it comes to a crashing halt. Sale could stay healthy to his late 30's and go to the Hall, and that would be great. But there are no guarantees with that, and he certainly may sign elsewhere for 2020 and beyond. If he's not here to pitch for winning White Sox teams, they should listen on moving him at some point. For Quintana, sell high. Get a haul now.

Edited July 21, 2016 by flavum

[Bananarchy]

The thing is, you never know with pitchers when it comes to crashing halt. Sale could stay healthy to his late 30's and go to the Hall, and that would be great. But there are no guarantees with that, and he certainly may sign elsewhere for 2020 and beyond. If he's not here to pitch for winning White Sox teams, they should listen on moving him at some point. For Quintana, sell high. Get a haul now.

At this rate, he'd be crazy not to sign somewhere else. This model isn't getting us anywhere.