White sox may be reconsidering their stance of being non sellers

[HeGone7]

Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason?

 

There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason.

 

Teams are desperate, but if your hope is to deal Sale and get a guy like Betts with prospects, or Seager, I saw Springer's name thrown around this site, etc., those guys I don't foresee available in the midst of a playoff push. However, in the offseason, I think they'd certainly be entertained.

 

So I see pro's and con's for both.

 

Obviously, I wrote a narrative about my feelings on selling, and if several guys are dealt but part of the plan is to move the bigger pieces in the offseason because they can net a young star already on a roster - I'm ok with that. But I'm very weary of the Sox actually following through.

[Panerista]

Teams are desperate, but if your hope is to deal Sale and get a guy like Betts with prospects, or Seager, I saw Springer's name thrown around this site, etc., those guys I don't foresee available in the midst of a playoff push. However, in the offseason, I think they'd certainly be entertained.

 

So I see pro's and con's for both.

 

Obviously, I wrote a narrative about my feelings on selling, and if several guys are dealt but part of the plan is to move the bigger pieces in the offseason because they can net a young star already on a roster - I'm ok with that. But I'm very weary of the Sox actually following through.

That's a point I haven't considered. Then again, I'm not sure the Sox, if selling, are really looking for immediate MLB impact or if they want to build for the future.

[FT35]

That's a point I haven't considered. Then again, I'm not sure the Sox, if selling, are really looking for immediate MLB impact or if they want to build for the future.

 

And it's probably a little of both...they will listen to offers and see if someone in contention now offers a "heat of the moment" deal they can't refuse--if not, they will hold off till the off season and bring more variables into play. Either way it will take a ton to acquire him. He might be TOO valuable for some teams--if there is such a thing.

Edited July 21, 2016 by FT35

[bmags]

Maybe you are right on MLB ready players. But in the last 3 years the Samardjiza (cubs), Hamels, and Price deals happened at the deadline. Those were all good hauls. I don't think it matters when.

[SCCWS]

Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason?

 

There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason.

 

No way. A contender, say the Red Sox, are not going to trade a starting outfielder( Betts or Bradley) in order to get a starting pitcher. They would be willing to trade a minor league package but are not going to open up holes on the ML roster. Sale and/or Q need to bring back some number of ML ready players not just prospects. Now if say a Boston or LA does not make the playoffs, then in the offseason they would be inclined to move a stud for a stud. In addition, in the off-season, there will be more suitors although Sale should bring back a package that most teams might not want to give up.

 

[Panerista]

No way. A contender, say the Red Sox, are not going to trade a starting outfielder( Betts or Bradley) in order to get a starting pitcher. They would be willing to trade a minor league package but are not going to open up holes on the ML roster. Sale and/or Q need to bring back some number of ML ready players not just prospects. Now if say a Boston or LA does not make the playoffs, then in the offseason they would be inclined to move a stud for a stud. In addition, in the off-season, there will be more suitors although Sale should bring back a package that most teams might not want to give up.

I don't follow Boston enough, but if the White Sox wanted Nomar Mazara (an early ROY favorite) and prospects from Texas for Sale or Q, they would do it.

 

I think you forget how valuable a starting pitcher with that type of contractual control is.

[fathom]

whitesoxdave

‏@barstoolWSD

Hearing "King's ransom" was most likely offered by Boston but that's all I know. Please stop @ ing me at work. Will dig at 5pm

[Panerista]

whitesoxdave

‏@barstoolWSD

Hearing "King's ransom" was most likely offered by Boston but that's all I know. Please stop @ ing me at work. Will dig at 5pm

Because that totally works.

[rneumann33]

Not big on posting anymore but always follow this site.

 

I can't be the only one utterly fed up with how this organization is run. To me, the Sox HAVE to sell, and sell nearly everything. This is a broken system. Your organization top-to-bottom is mediocre at best.

 

"If you always do, what you've always done. You'll always get, what you always got."

 

You cannot keep assembling a team of cast-offs, veterans, minor leaguers and 1-2 legit superstar players and expect them to catch lightning in a bottle. Every year it's the same conversation, "we were mediocre last year but if this guy plays up to his potential, and this guy breaks out, and this guy does this - then we have a chance at 90+ wins."

 

And every single year, it flops. The Sox answer to this is, "lets sign someone else mediocre or trade for another mediocre player." All this is, is a Band-Aid. You're not fixing your problem.

 

I think the Sox are in a very tough spot right now as an organization. I think the core of the fan base will always be there and I don't follow this to the extreme, but I'd imagine the organization financially is ok. But when you have kids coming up, your future fan base, and you're a joke while the team competing with you for fan base in the city is borderline great - you're in a world of problems. I've been to two games this season and am not ashamed to say that. I don't feel obligated to spend money on a not serious product.

 

The Sox are not serious about winning. Everything about this organization screams that. You have an inept owner incapable of spending what needs to be spent. You don't need a 200 million dollar payroll, but when you scout like the Sox do, you do need it. Because you have nothing of value in the minors and nothing available for immediate impact far too often. So you can't be a middle-tier payroll in those cases.

 

Their front office and management is a joke. It's like a family, which is admirable, but sometimes you need to disassociate. How Ventura has a job blows my mind. Why KW and/or Hahn are still around is another. Anyone in the scouting department pre-Hostetler should've been fired. Most of them still should be.

 

You do not have the pieces to acquire a star player or 2. That is sadly what this team needs. The "stars" if you can call them that, are incredibly flawed w/the exception of Sale. Even Q, not his fault, but he is flawed in that he just isn't perceived elsewhere like we view him. At least from a fan perspective. Same can be said for Eaton.

 

Unfortunately, the position they're in is their own fault. And they need to sell. If by some miracle people are willing to pay you a premium for Q and Eaton, which their statistical value suggests but that "perception" may not exist, then maybe you don't have to move Sale since that is most of what I hear is difficult for the Sox fanbase to swallow.

 

People fear this rebuilding process, but if this is done correctly, you will not have a lengthy rebuild. The Sox are in such a great spot that you can net probably 10 of the top 50-100 prospects in baseball, amongst others, in a full scale fire sale. Many of those guys being top 30 range guys in a Sale, Q, Eaton deal. I would think Frazier can net 1. Abreu I'm not sure about these days.

 

This isn't a rebuild where you have a bare cupboard. You would have assembled the best farm in baseball. Easily. Most of which are ready to contribute and you'll have 100 million free to spend on whatever you want. Next years class is weak, but a 2 year flier on a Bautista, should he hit the market mixed with several prospects and I'd be relatively excited/interested. He's just for example sake, don't freak out about age and what not. It's a legit 30 homer bat in your lineup and a guy with some charisma for selling seats.

 

People were so thrilled about Anderson and his arrival. Think of 5 or 6 better versions of Anderson on this team offensively. Think of 2 or 3 arms that have potential to be better than Q and Rodon, may not ever be Sale, but I'd argue 27 teams in baseball don't have that and they can all win. You're not selling to acquire long-term projects like SD got. Your chips are far more valuable and you'll see the fruition immediately. Which generates excitement in your fan base, or lack thereof.

 

The other big misconception is that you need all of these guys to pan out to their full potential. I don't remotely expect that. The hope is what you get nets you a few stars who pan out and then several good ballplayers. Some busts are likel. Look at the Royals. They had the "greatest farm ever" a few years ago and as each guy came up, they didn't quite meet the hype. And yet, they still won. Some guys can still be valuable after not completely panning out. They don't have to totally flame out like a Beckham.

 

If they sold everything and got an influx of 12-15 guys lets say. That means Sale, Q, Eaton (our 3rd most valuable chip and a guy who shouldn't be dealt for less), Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Jones, Duke, Robertson. To me, that's like 12-15 guys you're getting back minimum especially if people expect more than 4 for Sale.

 

If 3 of them pan out, by pan out I mean reach their talent like a Betts or Bryant have, that's all you'd want. You have cornerstones at that point. Cheap ones. Flexibility to spend and bring in the deficiencies or trade a couple for parts you need. This isn't the Cubs drafting top 5 for a few years and waiting on that. Our rebuilding process started because most of these guys are ready to come up for other organizations and are either blocked or need to finish this season on the farm.

 

If I'm the Sox, I'm selling everyone but the aforementioned young 3. I'm telling teams no chance on Sale and unless teams are paying the premium Eaton warrants, I'm telling them he isn't available. Drive up the price on those two by maxing out what you receive on the other guys. Then, last minute, you make them available and you've established a floor for value. If you get a haul for Q, who would be perceived as the best arm available, you're only going to get that much more for Sale. When Eaton, and his #2 overall defensive WAR, and top 12 overall WAR hit the market, you strike on that as well.

 

Sorry for the long post but this was a much needed venting process. If they stand pat, I'm not sure I'll be willing to stomach another year of this organization or baseball anymore.

 

[bmags]

It's a question none of us will ever really have the answer to, as we aren't listening to phone calls. You can guess, but there will never be a way to really understand it. Few do.

 

My gut is that 4 organizations have a huge load of major league talent and a huge pipeline of farm talent, and feel right in the race for a world series this year, and have a huge hole in their rotation.

 

I think we will see a miller level trade this month if the right player moves. A trade that we dont' know will be available again. They just as easily could move these guys piecemeal.

[Lip Man 1]

He Gone:

 

Very good post. Congrats to you.

 

There is no easy solution I'm afraid to the Sox numerous issues. Maybe the simplest one is that they desperately need new ownership to get out of this rut of mediocrity.

 

A new owner will bring in their own people and hopefully they'll be better at their jobs then the current group (how can they be worse?)

 

Mark

 

 

[GGajewski18]

I'm just ready for WSD to give us names and teams that are interested in our players that he mentioned the other day, something that is actually realistic.

 

 

[rneumann33]

Not big on posting anymore but always follow this site.

 

I can't be the only one utterly fed up with how this organization is run. To me, the Sox HAVE to sell, and sell nearly everything. This is a broken system. Your organization top-to-bottom is mediocre at best.

 

"If you always do, what you've always done. You'll always get, what you always got."

 

You cannot keep assembling a team of cast-offs, veterans, minor leaguers and 1-2 legit superstar players and expect them to catch lightning in a bottle. Every year it's the same conversation, "we were mediocre last year but if this guy plays up to his potential, and this guy breaks out, and this guy does this - then we have a chance at 90+ wins."

 

And every single year, it flops. The Sox answer to this is, "lets sign someone else mediocre or trade for another mediocre player." All this is, is a Band-Aid. You're not fixing your problem.

 

I think the Sox are in a very tough spot right now as an organization. I think the core of the fan base will always be there and I don't follow this to the extreme, but I'd imagine the organization financially is ok. But when you have kids coming up, your future fan base, and you're a joke while the team competing with you for fan base in the city is borderline great - you're in a world of problems. I've been to two games this season and am not ashamed to say that. I don't feel obligated to spend money on a not serious product.

 

The Sox are not serious about winning. Everything about this organization screams that. You have an inept owner incapable of spending what needs to be spent. You don't need a 200 million dollar payroll, but when you scout like the Sox do, you do need it. Because you have nothing of value in the minors and nothing available for immediate impact far too often. So you can't be a middle-tier payroll in those cases.

 

Their front office and management is a joke. It's like a family, which is admirable, but sometimes you need to disassociate. How Ventura has a job blows my mind. Why KW and/or Hahn are still around is another. Anyone in the scouting department pre-Hostetler should've been fired. Most of them still should be.

 

You do not have the pieces to acquire a star player or 2. That is sadly what this team needs. The "stars" if you can call them that, are incredibly flawed w/the exception of Sale. Even Q, not his fault, but he is flawed in that he just isn't perceived elsewhere like we view him. At least from a fan perspective. Same can be said for Eaton.

 

Unfortunately, the position they're in is their own fault. And they need to sell. If by some miracle people are willing to pay you a premium for Q and Eaton, which their statistical value suggests but that "perception" may not exist, then maybe you don't have to move Sale since that is most of what I hear is difficult for the Sox fanbase to swallow.

 

People fear this rebuilding process, but if this is done correctly, you will not have a lengthy rebuild. The Sox are in such a great spot that you can net probably 10 of the top 50-100 prospects in baseball, amongst others, in a full scale fire sale. Many of those guys being top 30 range guys in a Sale, Q, Eaton deal. I would think Frazier can net 1. Abreu I'm not sure about these days.

 

This isn't a rebuild where you have a bare cupboard. You would have assembled the best farm in baseball. Easily. Most of which are ready to contribute and you'll have 100 million free to spend on whatever you want. Next years class is weak, but a 2 year flier on a Bautista, should he hit the market mixed with several prospects and I'd be relatively excited/interested. He's just for example sake, don't freak out about age and what not. It's a legit 30 homer bat in your lineup and a guy with some charisma for selling seats.

 

People were so thrilled about Anderson and his arrival. Think of 5 or 6 better versions of Anderson on this team offensively. Think of 2 or 3 arms that have potential to be better than Q and Rodon, may not ever be Sale, but I'd argue 27 teams in baseball don't have that and they can all win. You're not selling to acquire long-term projects like SD got. Your chips are far more valuable and you'll see the fruition immediately. Which generates excitement in your fan base, or lack thereof.

 

The other big misconception is that you need all of these guys to pan out to their full potential. I don't remotely expect that. The hope is what you get nets you a few stars who pan out and then several good ballplayers. Some busts are likel. Look at the Royals. They had the "greatest farm ever" a few years ago and as each guy came up, they didn't quite meet the hype. And yet, they still won. Some guys can still be valuable after not completely panning out. They don't have to totally flame out like a Beckham.

 

If they sold everything and got an influx of 12-15 guys lets say. That means Sale, Q, Eaton (our 3rd most valuable chip and a guy who shouldn't be dealt for less), Frazier, Abreu, Melky, Jones, Duke, Robertson. To me, that's like 12-15 guys you're getting back minimum especially if people expect more than 4 for Sale.

 

If 3 of them pan out, by pan out I mean reach their talent like a Betts or Bryant have, that's all you'd want. You have cornerstones at that point. Cheap ones. Flexibility to spend and bring in the deficiencies or trade a couple for parts you need. This isn't the Cubs drafting top 5 for a few years and waiting on that. Our rebuilding process started because most of these guys are ready to come up for other organizations and are either blocked or need to finish this season on the farm.

 

If I'm the Sox, I'm selling everyone but the aforementioned young 3. I'm telling teams no chance on Sale and unless teams are paying the premium Eaton warrants, I'm telling them he isn't available. Drive up the price on those two by maxing out what you receive on the other guys. Then, last minute, you make them available and you've established a floor for value. If you get a haul for Q, who would be perceived as the best arm available, you're only going to get that much more for Sale. When Eaton, and his #2 overall defensive WAR, and top 12 overall WAR hit the market, you strike on that as well.

 

Sorry for the long post but this was a much needed venting process. If they stand pat, I'm not sure I'll be willing to stomach another year of this organization or baseball anymore.

 

 

Great Post. I think most Sox fans feel the same way. If you work for a company that struggles to be profitable and has glaring inefficiencies but yet you see management doing nothing to fix things or as you said but a Band-Aid on it the problems never get fixed. The company will continue to struggle and possibly close its doors. Now, I know sports are different, but as a fan why would I want to go and watch this team play as currently constructed? If they traded everyone and replenished their farm system I would go and watch a young team hopefully develop into a winner. Trading Sale, Q, and Abreu can add several top prospects and young MLB ready talent. Guys like Frazier, Eaton, Robertson, and Duke can provide mid-level prospects that add depth to the farm system that can allow you to make trades when they are ready to compete. The Cubs are doing it, the Astros are doing it, and the Rangers are doing it. The Brewers, Reds, and Braves are trying to do it.

I know there are people within the organization that realize a full re-build is necessary and the time to do it is now while guys like Sale and Q’s values are at their highest. Enough of the trying to piece a winner together with mediocre players, it does not work!! We have been watching them trying to do this for the last few years. So until major changes are made as much as it disappoints me I will not go to another game. Last year I canceled my season tickets and now I will not go until things change. Sorry for my rant but it has been very frustrating to watch this team and watch management refuse to make any major changes. I almost feel like they don’t respect the fans because they are going to do what they want and it does not matter what any of the fans think. So my personal solution is to not support this team financially.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Lol at WSD. Stop being an insider if ya don't want people blowing you up.

 

It's easily Boston. DD is a home run hitter and always shoots for the moon. I'm curious about the offer though

[GoGoSox2k2]

Lol at WSD. Stop being an insider if ya don't want people blowing you up.

 

It's easily Boston. DD is a home run hitter and always shoots for the moon. I'm curious about the offer though

 

\

Where is Rabbit.. he has been silent on here about any deadline rumors...

[SCCWS]

I don't follow Boston enough, but if the White Sox wanted Nomar Mazara (an early ROY favorite) and prospects from Texas for Sale or Q, they would do it.

 

I think you forget how valuable a starting pitcher with that type of contractual control is.

 

 

I don't but you might. From a Texas standpoint, as long as I have a viable replacement, I trade him. But if I am Hahn, Mazara is not good enough to be the #1 piece in a trade. He is having a good rookie year but also has been slumping. Then again, he is young. His numbers are not much better than Anderson who is playing a prime position. I would want to see a player like mazara after 1 full season of play not a 1/2 season. I said Betts or Bradley because they have done it for a longer period in the majors and both were All Stars this year. Actually for Sale, it would have to be Bradley since he plays a prime position.

 

[hi8is]

According to Batman, yes - Batman... The offer for Sale was from Boston for Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, and Basabe.

 

That's not enough for Sale - caped crusader.

[LDF]

 

well looking at this team from afar, i still can't believe at how this team is turning out.

 

the owners are sitting on the decision of RV and i think far too long.

 

this team i feel is still close.

 

look at the assets and trade from there.

 

trade Robertson, Q, Shields and yes Frazier.

 

get a couple of young pitcher, more help in the near ready prospects and or young players .... build around this group.

 

replace the cf, dh cat and pitching.

 

here is a question, with what happen in the summer, do any think that may be a main reasoning for Eaton maybe being traded??

 

i will blame this whole season on the owner and RV.

[TheTruth05]

According to Batman, yes - Batman... The offer for Sale was from Boston for Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, and Basabe.

 

That's not enough for Sale - caped crusader.

 

Now there's a source!

[NCsoxfan]

According to Batman, yes - Batman... The offer for Sale was from Boston for Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, and Basabe.

 

That's not enough for Sale - caped crusader.

 

It's not enough, but that's not an awful offer. You add Betts or JBJ and I'd probably take it.

[ptatc]

He Gone:

 

Very good post. Congrats to you.

 

There is no easy solution I'm afraid to the Sox numerous issues. Maybe the simplest one is that they desperately need new ownership to get out of this rut of mediocrity.

 

A new owner will bring in their own people and hopefully they'll be better at their jobs then the current group (how can they be worse?)

 

Mark

Never win a World Series? There are many executives that fall into that category.

[TheTruth05]

Hahn sounds pretty resigned. He realizes the crap product on the field can't be hidden anymore.

[Baron]

Hahn sounds pretty resigned. He realizes the crap product on the field can't be hidden anymore.

 

Well...he's part of the reason a crap product is out there. His pride and joy Avi Garcia blowing ass is a big part of that reason.

[Soxnfins]

You want to know what would be such a White Sox move? Trade Fulmer for Lucroy, whom is conviently out of the lineup for he Brew Crew tonight.

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...719-column.html

 

Haugh column on need for rebuild....

Edited July 21, 2016 by caulfield12