It's that time of year again...2016 edition

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I'm going to harp on this again after a hiatus. Why are they playing a guy like Leury Garcia (who has had hundreds of MLB at-bats and just isn't good) and Avisail Garcia (who has had over a thousand and certainly sucks, though maybe they're propping up his value), while Jason Coats has had 29 PA in a month in a half?

 

By the way, fun with small sample sizes... In his first stint: .091/.286/.136, 9 K in 29 PA. Now since his 2nd call-up in August: .286/.310/.500, 3 K in 29 PA.

 

Neither of the Garcias should be here in 2017 anyway. Coats isn't a starter but looks like a good 4th OF for 2017, so why not get him some more playing time? Eaton plays some CF, Cabrera some DH, Avi sits a little more, and you can even give Coats a game or two in CF and see how he looks. He's a prospect. Not big time prospect, but a guy you actually want to know what you have with. Everyone knows what you have with Leury and Avi.

 

Hilariously Ed Farmer said on the radio today that they are "showcasing" Leury to see if he can handle CF, and if he can, he can be our CF for 2017.

 

:lol: :lol:

[flavum]

12th at best. 14th at worst.

 

With the Marlins cancellation, and Pirates tie last night, they can pass the Sox if they play two games worse this weekend.

 

Sox-Twins

Marlins-Nationals

Pirates-Cardinals

 

Interesting cluster from the 2nd to 7th picks.

[NorthSideSox72]

Hilariously Ed Farmer said on the radio today that they are "showcasing" Leury to see if he can handle CF, and if he can, he can be our CF for 2017.

 

:lol: :lol:

Nothing says contending team like starting a CF who isn't a particularly good CF and who's career OPS in 152 games is .466.

 

[Dick Allen]

Nothing says contending team like starting a CF who isn't a particularly good CF and who's career OPS in 152 games is .466.

Did Leury try to steal your wife or something? You have been on his jock forever. Calling for his release years ago. He isn't a star, but he could be a useful back up. Considering all the minor league crap you go to bat for, I just wonder if you have something personal against this guy.

[NorthSideSox72]

Did Leury try to steal your wife or something? You have been on his jock forever. Calling for his release years ago. He isn't a star, but he could be a useful back up. Considering all the minor league crap you go to bat for, I just wonder if you have something personal against this guy.

I actually have similar frustrations around other players. It bothers me that Leury and Avisail (and Matt Albers and a couple others from the pen) keep getting playing time. They shouldn't be in any plans because they are just not good players, and have proven it. It bothers me that Jason Coats, Michael Ynoa and others are not getting playing time, because they MIGHT be part of 2017 and haven't gotten enough playing time to get a good look at them in the majors. It drives me up a wall that Ventura doesn't seem to understand yet another aspect of managing a team - when you're out of it in September, you want to get a good look at any players that might be part of the future. Not hold fast to players who have already established who they are and are not.

 

It's just another example of poor management.

 

Also, useful backup? Leury has been historically bad offensively for a player that has gotten that much playing time. They continual desire to go back to him is nonsensical. I mean, in Avisail's case, at least he's only kinda bad offensively (and terrible defensively).

 

[Dick Allen]

I actually have similar frustrations around other players. It bothers me that Leury and Avisail (and Matt Albers and a couple others from the pen) keep getting playing time. They shouldn't be in any plans because they are just not good players, and have proven it. It bothers me that Jason Coats, Michael Ynoa and others are not getting playing time, because they MIGHT be part of 2017 and haven't gotten enough playing time to get a good look at them in the majors. It drives me up a wall that Ventura doesn't seem to understand yet another aspect of managing a team - when you're out of it in September, you want to get a good look at any players that might be part of the future. Not hold fast to players who have already established who they are and are not.

 

It's just another example of poor management.

 

Also, useful backup? Leury has been historically bad offensively for a player that has gotten that much playing time. They continual desire to go back to him is nonsensical. I mean, in Avisail's case, at least he's only kinda bad offensively (and terrible defensively).

Yes, he's been bad, but if he hits a little bit, and he did hit a little bit in the minors, he can play 7 positions and run. It's an ideal back up. For some reason you like Coats who will be 27 on opening day, and cherry picked his last 29 PA. Look at Leury's last 35 PA. Ynoa is pitching a bit. Albers has basically been ignored the last month. Avi is playing it out as they are hoping his new swing brings some results. He is crap, but he is better than Coats. Besides, you aren't going to get much useful evaluation out of these last games. I am sure Avi will be non tendered. If Leury is out of options, he'll have to show he's good enough in the spring. I don't understand the hate. It's been a couple of years you have been bashing him. You have given worse a lot more time than that.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Dick Allen

[NorthSideSox72]

Yes, he's been bad, but if he hits a little bit, and he did hit a little bit in the minors, he can play 7 positions and run. It's an ideal back up. For some reason you like Coats who will be 27 on opening day, and cherry picked his last 29 PA. Look at Leury's last 35 PA. Ynoa is pitching a bit. Albers has basically been ignored the last month. Avi is playing it out as they are hoping his new swing brings some results. He is crap, but he is better than Coats. Besides, you aren't going to get much useful evaluation out of these last games. I am sure Avi will be non tendered. If Leury is out of options, he'll have to show he's good enough in the spring. I don't understand the hate. It's been a couple of years you have been bashing him. You have given worse a lot more time than that.

You can parse it if you want to. I am simply pointing out Ventura's tendency to play out the string with players we already know are lousy, as opposed to ones who may or may not be lousy, and I find that baseball-stupid. You may disagree with my opinions and evaluations on players, but I was more using Coats and Ynoa as examples of a pattern.

 

[SoxAce]

Yes, he's been bad, but if he hits a little bit, and he did hit a little bit in the minors, he can play 7 positions and run. It's an ideal back up. For some reason you like Coats who will be 27 on opening day, and cherry picked his last 29 PA. Look at Leury's last 35 PA.

 

I don't agree with you much DA (other than your arguments with caulfield ), but I'm in complete agreement here.

[Dick Allen]

You can parse it if you want to. I am simply pointing out Ventura's tendency to play out the string with players we already know are lousy, as opposed to ones who may or may not be lousy, and I find that baseball-stupid. You may disagree with my opinions and evaluations on players, but I was more using Coats and Ynoa as examples of a pattern.

Ynoa is pitching a lot more than Albers. Albers has pitched 3 innings this month and pitched 9 innings in August. What other relievers is Ventura being baseball stupid with?

[southsider2k5]

For September:

 

IP out of the pen

Beck 11

Minaya 10

Kahlnle 9.1

Ynoa 8.1

Jones 8.1

Jennings 7.2

Robertson 7.2

Ranaudo 6.2

Smith 4.1

Albers 3.1

Turner 3.1

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Ynoa is pitching a lot more than Albers. Albers has pitched 3 innings this month and pitched 9 innings in August. What other relievers is Ventura being baseball stupid with?

Albers and Turner should just be released, or sit on the bench so the younger guys can go. I personally don't believe in Beck or Minaya as real options, and I wouldn't have added them to the team to begin with, but that's of course subjective. But for those first two guys, they provide nothing. And to be clear I;m not just talking September here. Ynoa barely pitched for weeks before then too, and that really isn't how you develop a pitcher. Then there's the fact that he's leaving starters in too long (with regularly problematic results), which also eats into bullpen opportunities.

 

It's not the entire pen or the entire bench of course - it's a few in each case where I find his decision-making nonsensical.

 

[Dick Allen]

Albers and Turner should just be released, or sit on the bench so the younger guys can go. I personally don't believe in Beck or Minaya as real options, and I wouldn't have added them to the team to begin with, but that's of course subjective. But for those first two guys, they provide nothing. And to be clear I;m not just talking September here. Ynoa barely pitched for weeks before then too, and that really isn't how you develop a pitcher. Then there's the fact that he's leaving starters in too long (with regularly problematic results), which also eats into bullpen opportunities.

 

It's not the entire pen or the entire bench of course - it's a few in each case where I find his decision-making nonsensical.

Your frustration is creating things you are stating as fact that haven't happened. The starters have been quite good lately. Turner and Albers are pitching less than any other pitcher.

[NorthSideSox72]

Your frustration is creating things you are stating as fact that haven't happened. The starters have been quite good lately. Turner and Albers are pitching less than any other pitcher.

If you can't see how many times this year Ventura left in a starter until they started getting shelled and then still didn't move fast enough, then I can't help you. If you can't understand that I wrote those two shouldn't be there AT ALL, thus leaving more time for everyone else, then I can't help you on that either. You may disagree with me, but there are plenty of facts that you are ignoring.

 

[Dick Allen]

If you can't see how many times this year Ventura left in a starter until they started getting shelled and then still didn't move fast enough, then I can't help you. If you can't understand that I wrote those two shouldn't be there AT ALL, thus leaving more time for everyone else, then I can't help you on that either. You may disagree with me, but there are plenty of facts that you are ignoring.

You are ignoring the bullpen blowing up.

 

Those guys are just pitching garbage time. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

You can parse it if you want to. I am simply pointing out Ventura's tendency to play out the string with players we already know are lousy, as opposed to ones who may or may not be lousy, and I find that baseball-stupid. You may disagree with my opinions and evaluations on players, but I was more using Coats and Ynoa as examples of a pattern.

 

I don't know. It seems like Ventura is basically rotating through these guys. I mean right now the Sox have 11 guys in the pen, so no one is pitching on a every other day kind of schedule.

 

Even if you go back to August, it looks like Ynoa got a decent amount of work. He got 7 outings for 9 2/3 IP. Beck got 6 for 5 2/3. If you make it August and Sept, Ynoa has 17 IP, Beck 16 2/3. Kahnle has 17.

[flavum]

2. TB 66-94

3. Atl 66-93

4. Cin 67-93

5. Oak 67-93

6. Arz 67-93

7. SD 68-92

 

Diamondbacks beat the Padres last night, and dropped from 2nd to 6th.

 

Everyone else lost.

Edited October 1, 2016 by flavum

[flavum]

12. White Sox 78-82

13. Pirates 78-82

14. Marlins 79-81

 

The Sox are the only team with two games left.

[flavum]

The Sox are picking 12th next year unless they win and the Pirates lose tomorrow.

 

Sale on the mound. Pirates trying to eliminate the Cardinals chances.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

The Sox are picking 12th next year unless they win and the Pirates lose tomorrow.

 

Sale on the mound. Pirates trying to eliminate the Cardinals chances.

 

I think you mean the Sox are picking 13th unless the Sox lose tomorrow and the Pirates win.

 

As it stands tonight, the Sox have fist-f***ed themselves from the 10th pick to the 13th pick over the last month.

[flavum]

I think you mean the Sox are picking 13th unless the Sox lose tomorrow and the Pirates win.

 

As it stands tonight, the Sox have fist-f***ed themselves from the 10th pick to the 13th pick over the last month.

 

They never really threatened for that 10th pick. Just wasn't going to happen this year.

 

And 12th or 13th isn't a big deal either way. In fact, 13th picks look better overall than the 12ths- including Konerko and Sale.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

They never really threatened for that 10th pick. Just wasn't going to happen this year.

 

They HAD the 10th pick, they weren't just threatening for it. Then the Sox went 13-11 over their last 24 games and screwed that up.

[flavum]

Probably 6th at best, 13th at worst. If they play the last 54 like the did the previous 54, they'll finish 75-87. Nine teams are projected to finish worse than that, so it looks like they'll be on the bubble. My guess is they'll get to that final week at home vs the Rays and Twins, with Sale potentially starting two games for 20 wins, and Quintana maybe also in the Cy race, and they'll finish with 77-79 wins by having a hot last week between two irrelevant teams. 12th pick.

 

Not bad for 8 weeks ago.

[flavum]

Rays take the lead in the 10th. If they lose, 2nd pick. If they win, 4th pick.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Officially the 13th pick. Ugh.

[fathom]

Officially the 13th pick. Ugh.

 

Thought they are 12th