Dodgers kicking Tires on Q

[Panerista]

Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q.

I don't know about half. The name isn't as big, but the control is longer.

[GreenSox]

Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q.

That tells me that Sale would bring super value. He's the one to move. An opportunity to completely reshape things and goodness knows things need reshaping.

 

Q might fit in better with a retooling, if not rebuilding, team anyway.

 

If the Sox think Swithart can catch, he (plus a couple of upside guys from the lower minors) might be good for one of the lesser pieces.

 

I'd really like to see Gonzalez mow down the Cubs tonight...nothing like a good garbage heap flip (a la Pomeranz)

Edited July 25, 2016 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q.

 

Quintana just doesn't get the same respect around the league. Not even close. I don't know if it is because he doesn't have the same raw stuff or what, but he is never thought of as an elite pitcher, even when he numbers say otherwise.

[Chisoxfn]

Quintana just doesn't get the same respect around the league. Not even close. I don't know if it is because he doesn't have the same raw stuff or what, but he is never thought of as an elite pitcher, even when he numbers say otherwise.

Wins...he doesn't get wins. If he had won 18 to 20 games a few times in a row, there would be a different "ora" about him. Or if he was doing it on a team where you saw him dominate in the post-season, etc.

[southsider2k5]

Wins...he doesn't get wins. If he had won 18 to 20 games a few times in a row, there would be a different "ora" about him. Or if he was doing it on a team where you saw him dominate in the post-season, etc.

 

Aura, but hey, you got the main idea of what I was going for.

[iamshack]

Yeah, Q definitely has that "ocra" about him...

[ptatc]

Yeah, Q definitely has that "ocra" about him...

The Delta State Fighting Ocra!

[NCsoxfan]

I hate hate hate that I see some talks on this board and other places that a fair deal for Q won't include Moncada or a major piece from the ML roster. The guy is a legitimate ace that's under control for 4 more years. It's almost like now some are itching to trade him for the he!! of it. A package of Benintendi, Kopech, and other prospects not named Moncada is a bad deal on paper for us. That is wayyy too light. I really hope Hahn doesn't budge here.

[harfman77]

I hate hate hate that I see some talks on this board and other places that a fair deal for Q won't include Moncada or a major piece from the ML roster. The guy is a legitimate ace that's under control for 4 more years. It's almost like now some are itching to trade him for the he!! of it. A package of Benintendi, Kopech, and other prospects not named Moncada is a bad deal on paper for us. That is wayyy too light. I really hope Hahn doesn't budge here.

 

http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/pirate...-jose-quintana/

 

Pirates blog think a one for one trade of Quintana for Meadows is an overpay. Fangraphs has Q as 25 and Moncada 26 in trade value.

 

You could likely get Moncada, but you wouldn't be able to get the quantity of quality prospects that you could with using Beninrendi as the headliner.

[ChiSox59]

Anyone hear the Heyman interview on Mulley & Hanley this morning? My Cubs buddy claims he said that Quintana gets you half of what Sale does. Can anyone verify that? If true, then definitely deal Sale and hold onto Q.

 

I didn't hear it, but these dudes only know so much. Heyman is one of the better ones, but take it with a grain of salt. Q should get close to what Sale can bring back.

[Jose Abreu]

I saw an insider tweet yesterday saying that the Sox will receive an insanely large package in exchange for Quintana, so I don't know what Heyman is talking about

[Buehrlesque]

In a situation this extreme, there's no point in fighting perception. Due to his value being a bit tarnished by perception/name recognition/win total, etc., the Sox are just not going to get enough value in a Quintana trade to make it worthwhile. No GM is going to empty his farm system for a name that doesn't fully energize the fan base. Sale on the other hand...

[ptatc]

In a situation this extreme, there's no point in fighting perception. Due to his value being a bit tarnished by perception/name recognition/win total, etc., the Sox are just not going to get enough value in a Quintana trade to make it worthwhile. No GM is going to empty his farm system for a name that doesn't fully energize the fan base. Sale on the other hand...

That's why they shop both and see which deal is better.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

I hate hate hate that I see some talks on this board and other places that a fair deal for Q won't include Moncada or a major piece from the ML roster. The guy is a legitimate ace that's under control for 4 more years. It's almost like now some are itching to trade him for the he!! of it. A package of Benintendi, Kopech, and other prospects not named Moncada is a bad deal on paper for us. That is wayyy too light. I really hope Hahn doesn't budge here.

 

Q is an elite pitcher. The only thing he doesn't have is W's next to his name. Hell, Sunday he went 6 2/3 0 runs 1 BB 3 H and he got an ND. If that doesn't sum up his career as a Sox pitcher, I don't know what does.

 

Since his 1st full season as a starter his #s are elite among pitchers.

 

2013 - 3.5 fWAR 30th overall (15th in AL)

2014 - 5.1 fWAR 10th overall (8th in AL)

2015 - 4.8 fWAR 14th overall (6th in AL)

2016 - 3.2 fWAR 9th overall (on pace for 5.1 fWAR), (3rd in AL)

 

Look at his trajectory among AL pitchers 15th, 8th, 6th, 3rd. He's 27, easy delivery, no signs of arm issues, and locked up cheap as hell for the next 4 years.

 

MLB pitching leaders in fWAR from 2013 - today:

 

Kershaw 28.9 fWAR. 4 years 141 left million contract. 28 years old.

Scherzer 20.7 fWAR. 5 years 170 million left on contract. 32 years old.

Price 19.8 fWAR 6 years 187 million left on contract. 30, will be 31 in August.

Kluber 19.4 fWAR 5 years 59.1 million (could increase to 70.9) left on contract. 30 years old.

Sale 19.1 fWAR 3 years 38 million left on contract. 27 years old.

Quintana 16.5 fWAR 4 years 37.85 million left on contract. 27 years old.

 

Both Sale and Q should bring back a huge bounty if one is traded. If there are no MLB proven young players thrown into the trade I do not see how they can take anything less than 3 top 50 prospects, and 2 more top 100 prospects for one of Sale or Q.

[Jose Abreu]

Q is an elite pitcher. The only thing he doesn't have is W's next to his name. Hell, Sunday he went 6 2/3 0 runs 1 BB 3 H and he got an ND. If that doesn't sum up his career as a Sox pitcher, I don't know what does.

 

Since his 1st full season as a starter his #s are elite among pitchers.

 

2013 - 3.5 fWAR 30th overall (15th in AL)

2014 - 5.1 fWAR 10th overall (8th in AL)

2015 - 4.8 fWAR 14th overall (6th in AL)

2016 - 3.2 fWAR 9th overall (on pace for 5.1 fWAR), (3rd in AL)

 

Look at his trajectory among AL pitchers 15th, 8th, 6th, 3rd. He's 27, easy delivery, no signs of arm issues, and locked up cheap as hell for the next 4 years.

 

MLB pitching leaders in fWAR from 2013 - today:

 

Kershaw 28.9 fWAR. 4 years 141 left million contract. 28 years old.

Scherzer 20.7 fWAR. 5 years 170 million left on contract. 32 years old.

Price 19.8 fWAR 6 years 187 million left on contract. 30, will be 31 in August.

Kluber 19.4 fWAR 5 years 59.1 million (could increase to 70.9) left on contract. 30 years old.

Sale 19.1 fWAR 3 years 38 million left on contract. 27 years old.

Quintana 16.5 fWAR 4 years 37.85 million left on contract. 27 years old.

Both Sale and Q should bring back a huge bounty if one is traded. If there are no MLB proven young players thrown into the trade I do not see how they can take anything less than 3 top 50 prospects, and 2 more top 100 prospects for one of Sale or Q.

Very well put

 

[ChiSox59]

Q is an elite pitcher. The only thing he doesn't have is W's next to his name. Hell, Sunday he went 6 2/3 0 runs 1 BB 3 H and he got an ND. If that doesn't sum up his career as a Sox pitcher, I don't know what does.

 

Since his 1st full season as a starter his #s are elite among pitchers.

 

2013 - 3.5 fWAR 30th overall (15th in AL)

2014 - 5.1 fWAR 10th overall (8th in AL)

2015 - 4.8 fWAR 14th overall (6th in AL)

2016 - 3.2 fWAR 9th overall (on pace for 5.1 fWAR), (3rd in AL)

 

Look at his trajectory among AL pitchers 15th, 8th, 6th, 3rd. He's 27, easy delivery, no signs of arm issues, and locked up cheap as hell for the next 4 years.

 

MLB pitching leaders in fWAR from 2013 - today:

 

Kershaw 28.9 fWAR. 4 years 141 left million contract. 28 years old.

Scherzer 20.7 fWAR. 5 years 170 million left on contract. 32 years old.

Price 19.8 fWAR 6 years 187 million left on contract. 30, will be 31 in August.

Kluber 19.4 fWAR 5 years 59.1 million (could increase to 70.9) left on contract. 30 years old.

Sale 19.1 fWAR 3 years 38 million left on contract. 27 years old.

Quintana 16.5 fWAR 4 years 37.85 million left on contract. 27 years old.

 

Both Sale and Q should bring back a huge bounty if one is traded. If there are no MLB proven young players thrown into the trade I do not see how they can take anything less than 3 top 50 prospects, and 2 more top 100 prospects for one of Sale or Q.

 

This is a good post.

 

[Chisoxfn]

This is a good post.

Yes it is and it is also why I'm trading Sale before I trade Q because the reality is teams are going to give up a hell of a lot more for Sale than they will Q, imo.

[OmarComing25]

Quintana might fly under the radar among baseball fans and baseball media but I highly doubt that the vast majority of GMs don't know how good he is, otherwise they would be incompetent at their jobs. And that's all that matters. I don't think perception will hurt him.

[caulfield12]

Was the perception that Shelby Miller would overly excite the AZ fanbase?

[GreenSox]

In a situation this extreme, there's no point in fighting perception. Due to his value being a bit tarnished by perception/name recognition/win total, etc., the Sox are just not going to get enough value in a Quintana trade to make it worthwhile. No GM is going to empty his farm system for a name that doesn't fully energize the fan base. Sale on the other hand...

That's an argument to trade Sale.

 

If done right, it could be a great move.

 

A question, though, do the Whitesox value Q at almost the level of Sale? Are the pricetags similar? I hope they are.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Am I missing something with the Dodgers system? Let's remove Seager, Pederson, and Urias because I don't believe they will be involved in any deals. That leaves...De Leon, Holmes, Belinger, Verugo, Barnes, Toles, and a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. Nice prospects, but no headliner there for me. And even if 1 of those 3 were involved it would almost 100% be Pederson....and ehh, not sure he's the prize he once was.

 

Joc, De Leon, Bellinger, Verdugo, and Barnes for Q or Sale? Definitely wouldn't be my favorite package.

[ChiSox59]

Am I missing something with the Dodgers system? Let's remove Seager, Pederson, and Urias because I don't believe they will be involved in any deals. That leaves...De Leon, Holmes, Belinger, Verugo, Barnes, Toles, and a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. Nice prospects, but no headliner there for me. And even if 1 of those 3 were involved it would almost 100% be Pederson....and ehh, not sure he's the prize he once was.

 

Joc, De Leon, Bellinger, Verdugo, and Barnes for Q or Sale? Definitely wouldn't be my favorite package.

 

Agreed. I need Urias, De Leon, Barnes and 2 others are included in any package Sale or Q package. I just don't think the Dodgers have the bullets without Urias.

[OmarComing25]

I feel like people are undervaluing De Leon here (have you seen his strikeout numbers?), but yeah without Urias it's probably not enough, though he's probably untouchable at this point.

[Flash Tizzle]

In a situation this extreme, there's no point in fighting perception. Due to his value being a bit tarnished by perception/name recognition/win total, etc., the Sox are just not going to get enough value in a Quintana trade to make it worthwhile. No GM is going to empty his farm system for a name that doesn't fully energize the fan base. Sale on the other hand...

As Caufield say, what about Shelby Miller? Is the excuse just, "oh well Arizone frequently watched him pitched and liked him." Or the good ole, "that type of overpay rarely happens," yet in reality it happens every year.

 

 

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

I feel like people are undervaluing De Leon here (have you seen his strikeout numbers?), but yeah without Urias it's probably not enough, though he's probably untouchable at this point.

 

It's the Dodgers call. Do they want to win this year, and have another ace to go with Kershaw (who can opt out after 2018) for the future or do they try to hope to make the playoffs with their current rotation and hope Kershaw is able to pitch again this year?

 

Here's a fun fact the Dodgers are 42-42 in games not started by Clayton Kershaw. They are 14-2 in Kershaw starts this year. They currently have a 2 game lead for the 1st WC, and a 2.5 game lead on the 2nd WC. Their current 4 man rotation is Maeda, McCarthy (coming off TJ surgery), Kazmir, and Norris. Urias, is back at AAA and on an innings limit. If they plan on making the postseason they need another quality starter point blank.

 

Again looking at the free agent market available in the winter, there is nobody they can go out and buy remotely close to the caliber of Sale or Q for next year. If they want to win this year they better be prepared to dish out a lot of top prospects/young players for Sale or Q, and that includes Urias and De Leon.