White Sox Listening on Sale

[Jose Abreu]

Off the top of my head, that actually may not be enough, when you add up the current & surplus value.

 

At the same time, Boston might not need a ~2 WAR SP for the rest of this season to compete.

I think it's impossible to get a "fair" package for Sale, you're right.

 

However, I do think that a calculated risk such as the package I just outlined has the potential to be a fair return for Sale, and it could be better than keeping him on a mediocre team with no direction.

[Chicago White Sox]

Off the top of my head, that actually may not be enough, when you add up the current & surplus value.

 

At the same time, Boston might not need a ~2 WAR SP for the rest of this season to compete.

WTF? Surely you can't be seriously?!

[Chisoxfn]

Off the top of my head, that actually may not be enough, when you add up the current & surplus value.

 

At the same time, Boston might not need a ~2 WAR SP for the rest of this season to compete.

I've been picky on what it would take, but that type of offer from Boston gets it done no problem. By the way, welcome aboard!!!

[Jose Abreu]

Ok, this is the ONE instance where I'd say you need to package Robertson with Sale to convince Dombrowski.

 

Please let it be so.

I agree, I should've been more specific but that would be for Sale AND Robertson/Duke or some reliever of that nature. Take the reliever out and I wouldn't accept anything less for Sale than Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, and Vazquez. Shaw and Rodriguez were players I threw in for Robertson or the reliever in the deal.

[GreenSox]

Just from what I gather reading the rumors and such, Hahn wants major league players off of contenders rosters for Sale. That's just not realistic - the Rangers can't give up Mazara, e.g.. And then the reports that they are specifically looking at catchers...that suggests hole plugging. All in all I suspect he has no intention of blowing this up.

 

And I suppose if he did sell-off, that would admit failure and that could be the end for him.

 

BTW, the Rangers have a ton of great prospect....just very few that are ML ready and not on the big league team.

 

Boston and the Dodgers showed tonight that they need another starter.

Edited July 31, 2016 by GreenSox

[Real]

Just from what I gather reading the rumors and such, Hahn wants major league players off of contenders rosters for Sale. That's just not realistic. And then the reports that they are specifically looking at catchers...that suggests hole plugging. All in all I suspect he has no intention of blowing this up.

 

And I suppose if he did sell-off, that would admit failure and that could be the end for him.

 

not realistic

 

lol.

[Jose Abreu]

In other news, here's a snapchat I just received from Yoan Moncada!

 

[Quin]

In other news, here's a snapchat I just received from Yoan Moncada!

 

 

well, s***.

[Black_Jack29]

To be honest, while I share your angst in this, the ineptitude of his team mates, his manager, & the front office have little to do with what he is actually worth in trade.

 

Trading just to trade is one way this organization has slid into the crapper. See: Peavey, Swisher, & other vets sold for nothing as examples of this.

 

No, the idea is to trade Sale for a couple of really good, young ML-ready position players. The Sox are currently loaded with solid starting pitching and have a dearth of offensive power. You can't win games when you struggle to score two runs.

 

Sale is unique in that he's not only one of the top 5 pitchers in the league, but he's also under a ridiculously team-friendly contract for the next few years. The market for starting pitching is also crazy right now. A player like Sale could net a sh*tload of talent in return and set the Sox up to compete again in a year or two.

 

So, no, he's not too valuable to trade... for the right price. And if Hahn can't get that price right now, I'm totally cool with him waiting until the winter meetings to shop Sale again. And if that doesn't work out, he can wait until next year's trade deadline. If the Sox can't get their act together and compete for a wild card, it'll become a question of when, rather than if, the Sox should trade Sale.

 

[Soxnfins]

In other news, here's a snapchat I just received from Yoan Moncada!

 

 

This makes me laugh. I wish this was true.

[Two-Gun Pete]

WTF? Surely you can't be seriously?!

Boston's only 2gb of Toronto for the ALE. They're already the 2nd WC right now. And I happen to think that they're better than the teams behind them.

 

So yes, EVERY team can use a SP of Sale's quality. But, I think Boston can add a lesser player, and still compete, while coughing up MUCH less in trade.

[Two-Gun Pete]

So, no, he's not too valuable to trade... for the right price. And if Hahn can't get that price right now, I'm totally cool with him waiting until the winter meetings to shop Sale again. And if that doesn't work out, he can wait until next year's trade deadline. If the Sox can't get their act together and compete for a wild card, it'll become a question of when, rather than if, the Sox should trade Sale.

And again, come up with a realistic trade that'll get it done. Boston doesn't "need" to add a Sale-like player to compete; if the season ended today, they'd already be in the postseason.

 

And I agree, in that as Sale nears the end of his contract, his surplus value declines. But to my original post, he is, RIGHT NOW, too valuable to receive sufficient return in trade. In a season or two, he will be tradeable, IMO.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'll end tonight on this note. Your move Dombrowski.

[Two-Gun Pete]

I think it's impossible to get a "fair" package for Sale, you're right.

 

However, I do think that a calculated risk such as the package I just outlined has the potential to be a fair return for Sale, and it could be better than keeping him on a mediocre team with no direction.

And getting exactly Jack and Sh*+ for vets that have been sold off has contributed to this decade of sucktitude.

 

While your suggested deal would be intriguing, I doubt that Dombrowski would make that offer. (They're already in the postseason as we type this.)

 

if KW/Rick trade Sale or Q or anyone else, I'm ok with it, as long as they extract every single droplet of value. If not, & they get Avi-like returns, those two should be fired on the spot. (As an aside, I don't see Avi having been a ranked prospect of any repute, despite me looking for evidence of this on the interwebs. )

[Black_Jack29]

And again, come up with a realistic trade that'll get it done. Boston doesn't "need" to add a Sale-like player to compete; if the season ended today, they'd already be in the postseason.

 

Who said that Boston was the only trading partner available? Even teams that are currently on the outside looking in might be willing to deal for Sale.

 

And I agree, in that as Sale nears the end of his contract, his surplus value declines. But to my original post, he is, RIGHT NOW, too valuable to receive sufficient return in trade. In a season or two, he will be tradeable, IMO.

 

Sale is under team control through 2019. His value will not be that much lower a year from now.

 

You have no idea what Sale is worth. The only people who know that are Rick Hahn and the GM that accepts Hahn's offer. In other words, both the market and the fit set Sale's value, not fans on message boards. Some teams, such as the Red Sox, probably aren't in a position to give Hahn what he'd want for Sale. On the other hand, there may be a .500 team out there who desperately needs an ace and also has a couple of ML-ready Top 30 prospects that Hahn really likes. And maybe that team also has a #3 starter that Hahn and Coop both like. And perhaps Hahn can convince this GM to throw in a good veteran defensive catcher as well. If Hahn pulls the trigger on such a deal, he'll probably have a better team in 2018 than what he'll have with Sale and a bunch of mediocre, one-year-rental position players.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Black_Jack29

[Black_Jack29]

And getting exactly Jack and Sh*+ for vets that have been sold off has contributed to this decade of sucktitude.

 

The Sox are in the position they're in because they haven't been able to draft/develop offensive talent, not because Kenny and Hahn have been getting swindled in trades.

 

[DirtySox]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m3 minutes ago

The Dodgers, like Boston, has the prospect firepower to get a Chris Sale deal completed -- but they would need to ante up to make it happen.

 

[Eminor3rd]

This team is jack with Sale though. What would you suggest they do? Hold pat? I don't see how gradual improvements over the next three years will be enough when Chris will be exiting via free agency in 2020. Starting over is really our only option.

 

As I've said a bunch of times in several threads, if you look at the contract situations of the team, it lays out really well to "go for it" for one more season. Several of the most expensive core position players come off the books after next year, so if you're primed for an extremely active trade deadline in the event of a failure, and the prices on Sale/Quintana will be essentially the same (or perhaps slightly nearer the neighborhood of "we can actually put a prospect package together that approaches their real value without losing literally the entire farm").

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I've just felt in my gut some team is going to say f*** it and go for Sale. Someone of his caliber on the market is insane. You're paying that insane price but for a team like Texas, who has had unhealthy pitchers, to get a guy as durable as Sale would be a giant boost. Insurance on Darvish as well. Texas has to give up Mazara. As Rabbit said, Daniels and Hahn are buddies. I just feel like that's who will ante up.

 

Mazara, Gallo, Profar, Ortiz and Tate for Sale. You could swap out names for the last two. You could also have a multiplayer deal coming from Chicago. Choo is hurt. Maybe a Sale, Melky, Robertson/Jones/Duke goes to Texas and that adds even more pieces coming back plus would give them another bat and reliever. I just have that feeling that we'll be stunned come Monday afternoon.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

As I've said a bunch of times in several threads, if you look at the contract situations of the team, it lays out really well to "go for it" for one more season. Several of the most expensive core position players come off the books after next year, so if you're primed for an extremely active trade deadline in the event of a failure, and the prices on Sale/Quintana will be essentially the same (or perhaps slightly nearer the neighborhood of "we can actually put a prospect package together that approaches their real value without losing literally the entire farm").

 

 

Ok. So lay that plan out for us on how they attack this off-season in a crappy FA market with a bare farm system.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

The Sox are in the position they're in because they haven't been able to draft/develop offensive talent, not because Kenny and Hahn have been getting swindled in trades.

Agreed. We've pretty much all liked the deals recently they just haven't worked out. It's like a black cloud surrounds Hahn.

[soxforlife05]

I've just felt in my gut some team is going to say f*** it and go for Sale. Someone of his caliber on the market is insane. You're paying that insane price but for a team like Texas, who has had unhealthy pitchers, to get a guy as durable as Sale would be a giant boost. Insurance on Darvish as well. Texas has to give up Mazara. As Rabbit said, Daniels and Hahn are buddies. I just feel like that's who will ante up.

 

Mazara, Gallo, Profar, Ortiz and Tate for Sale. You could swap out names for the last two. You could also have a multiplayer deal coming from Chicago. Choo is hurt. Maybe a Sale, Melky, Robertson/Jones/Duke goes to Texas and that adds even more pieces coming back plus would give them another bat and reliever. I just have that feeling that we'll be stunned come Monday afternoon.

 

Profar is going to be a FA before Sale though. And I'm confident Gallo is a bust.

 

Give me Mazara, Odor, Profar, Ortiz, and Tate for Sale, Saladino, and Melky

Edited July 31, 2016 by soxforlife05

[Black_Jack29]

Ok. So lay that plan out for us on how they attack this off-season in a crappy FA market with a bare farm system.

 

Yep, and that's another factor that'll limit what the Sox can get for Sale. Any GM that does his homework knows that the Sox will need to trade for young position player talent sooner rather than later.

 

I think that Hahn can hold out for another 12 months if he isn't enamored with the current offers (as circumstances change, new opportunities can develop), but I really can't see both Sale and Q on the roster after next year's trade deadline if the Sox aren't competitors at that point. Way too many holes to fill.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Yep, and that's another factor that'll limit what the Sox can get for Sale. Any GM that does his homework knows that the Sox will need to trade for young position player talent sooner rather than later.

 

I think that Hahn can hold out for another 12 months if he isn't enamored with the current offers (as circumstances change, new opportunities can develop), but I really can't see both Sale and Q on the roster after next year's trade deadline if the Sox aren't competitors at that point. Way too many holes to fill.

Unfortunately, Hahn's gona need to rob Peter to pay Paul. Sale may be the guy to go because he can bring back the monster haul. That's if they want to try that route instead of a complete rebuild. Personally, I'd go the complete rebuild route. If ya don't get the deals you want by Monday, hold onto them. Lay the groundwork, like Rosenthal mentioned today. This is the time for that. I believe Rabbit said we talked about trading for Frazier last year around this time. Couldn't make it happen by the deadline so he got the groundwork done.

 

This is my opinion, if they only trade one, it's Sale because of the haul you can get back.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m3 minutes ago

The Dodgers, like Boston, has the prospect firepower to get a Chris Sale deal completed -- but they would need to ante up to make it happen.

 

 

Who are the position players? Bellinger and Verdugo? I'll pass on that. I'd love Urias but trading Sale for a package centered around pitching doesn't make sense