Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) The Red Sox paid Moncada a $31.5 million bonus, and paid the league a $31.5 million penalty. They are invested $63 million. The Sox would pay him minimal amounts. It's Boston that doesn't want that $63 million investment to go away. Agree that's what makes him complicated but he's blocked by Pedroia and Bogaerts. Maybe they play him at third I don't know who their 3B is. I'm just really hoping this all gets done. It's best for the White Sox. But if they can't that's fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Would be stunned if both Sale and Quintana are still on #WhiteSox roster later today https://twitter.com/scotgregor/status/760132595078225920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:17 AM) The Red Sox paid Moncada a $31.5 million bonus, and paid the league a $31.5 million penalty. They are invested $63 million. The Sox would pay him minimal amounts. It's Boston that doesn't want that $63 million investment to go away. The penalty is their own fault...I can understand the $31.5 million being part of the equation...the $63 million...not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) I agree that Moncada should be coming back in a Sale deal, but the Red Sox do have an interesting argument for not including him. Sale has 3 years left on his deal at bargain prices. Say you trade Moncada ++ for him, Moncada being someone you've already paid a $63 million bonus to and gotten no production from (please correct me if I am wrong). The Red Sox could be arguing that they would essentially be using that Moncada money for Sale, which ultimately would add $21 million per year into the 3 years Sale has left. That puts Sale's salary + sunk Moncada cost at over $30 million per year, which hurts a ton of Sale's surplus value, which hurts his trade value. I guess I can see why they might not budge on Moncada, which is really too bad because Sale commands your #1 prospect and more. To be clear, I agree with iamshack in the post above. Their stupid penalty and bonus is none of our concern. He is your top prospect and he is coming to Chicago if you want Sale. Just playing a little devils advocate. Edited August 1, 2016 by South Sider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Apologies if this has been posted, but this guy is legit Scot Gregor @scotgregor Would be stunned if both Sale and Quintana are still on #WhiteSox roster later today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:19 AM) Would be stunned if both Sale and Quintana are still on #WhiteSox roster later today https://twitter.com/scotgregor/status/760132595078225920 Wow, that is surprising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) Apologies if this has been posted, but this guy is legit Scot Gregor @scotgregor Would be stunned if both Sale and Quintana are still on #WhiteSox roster later today Ya just posted it but just got buried lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) If Robertson gets included, Moncada definitely needs to come along. I am fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 We can include Brett Lawrie to offset Moncada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) The Red Sox paid Moncada a $31.5 million bonus, and paid the league a $31.5 million penalty. They are invested $63 million. The Sox would pay him minimal amounts. It's Boston that doesn't want that $63 million investment to go away. If this is really the case, it's incredibly poor business logic by Boston. The money was gone the moment they acquired him; it's a sunk cost. If him and Benintendi turn into similarly productive players, it doesn't make Moncada more valuable because they spent more on him. Edited August 1, 2016 by Eminor3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) The Red Sox paid Moncada a $31.5 million bonus, and paid the league a $31.5 million penalty. They are invested $63 million. The Sox would pay him minimal amounts. It's Boston that doesn't want that $63 million investment to go away. Gotta say I understand! However, they are saving so much of that on Sale's below market deal for 3 years. BUT...like you said...it's a wash, but part of that savings is what makes Sale so valuable...without it, they might as well trade for someone with a typical contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (South Sider @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) I agree that Moncada should be coming back in a Sale deal, but the Red Sox do have an interesting argument for not including him. Sale has 3 years left on his deal at bargain prices. Say you trade Moncada ++ for him, Moncada being someone you've already paid a $63 million bonus to and gotten no production from (please correct me if I am wrong). The Red Sox could be arguing that they would essentially be using that Moncada money for Sale, which ultimately would add $21 million per year into the 3 years Sale has left. That puts Sale's salary + sunk Moncada cost at over $30 million per year, which hurts a ton of Sale's surplus value, which hurts his trade value. I guess I can see why they might not budge on Moncada, which is really too bad because Sale commands your #1 prospect and more. To be clear, I agree with iamshack in the post above. Their stupid penalty and bonus is none of our concern. He is your top prospect and he is coming to Chicago if you want Sale. Just playing a little devils advocate. This is the sunk cost argument in reverse. If they had to eat money to get rid of Sandoval, would they? Yes they would. This is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:21 AM) We can include Brett Lawrie to offset Moncada. James Shields is right about that amount, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 If they don't want to deal moncada then they can get Quintana. Send Chris to LA around a urias package (+ everything else they have to trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 If they really go no-Moncada, then it would have to be: Sale and Robertson for Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, Rodriguez, Travis, Swihart, Dubon, Ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) The penalty is their own fault...I can understand the $31.5 million being part of the equation...the $63 million...not my problem. It's not your problem. It still is a reason Boston isn't going to trade him unless maybe you gave the Sale and Q. If you add the $63 million to the cost of the deal, it makes Sale not a bargain, but a properly paid $30 million a year guy. If his contract was $30 million a year, the package isn't as good as it is when he's a $15 million a year guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:22 AM) If they really go no-Moncada, then it would have to be: Sale and Robertson for Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, Rodriguez, Travis, Swihart, Dubon, Ball... Agreed. They have include 3 more prospects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 24s25 seconds ago Source: #RedSox pushing hardest to acquire #WhiteSox’s Sale. No indication trade will happen. “Late-night talks,” per @BNightengale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:24 AM) It's not your problem. It still is a reason Boston isn't going to trade him unless maybe you gave the Sale and Q. If you add the $63 million to the cost of the deal, it makes Sale not a bargain, but a properly paid $30 million a year guy. If his contract was $30 million a year, the package isn't as good as it is when he's a $15 million a year guy. Exactly. I didn't know about that so that's gona be tricky in and of itself. That's a big reason he probably won't be moved because they have so much invested. It's not our problem but it's Boston's and is a sticking point likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Ken Rosenthal Source: #RedSox pushing hardest to acquire #WhiteSox’s Sale. No indication trade will happen. “Late-night talks,” per @BNightengale. 1m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) It's not your problem. It still is a reason Boston isn't going to trade him unless maybe you gave the Sale and Q. If you add the $63 million to the cost of the deal, it makes Sale not a bargain, but a properly paid $30 million a year guy. If his contract was $30 million a year, the package isn't as good as it is when he's a $15 million a year guy. Yeah, I follow you...but that isn't how negotiations work...we look at the market value of an asset, not the investment one counterparty may have made in that asset already. If you are going to dock me that $63 million for Moncada, that decreases his value to me incredibly...because you're essentially paying a prospect $63 million. The entire point of trading Chris is to acquire prospects who make extremely little for the first 6 years of service time. This guy essentially is making $10.5 million for the first 6 years of his service time. Maybe we can just trade them straight-up for Abreu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 So Rosenthal just tweeting Nightengale and no mention of what he tweeted earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 If $30mil were "really" the holdup, White Sox couldn't throw in $15mil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Unscientific poll about 65-35 against #whitesox trading Sale, but their scouts blanketed #redsox system and Bos said to be trying https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/760135115745943552 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 This sucks being at work lol. I'll check back in an hour for an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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