White Sox Listening on Sale

[Chicago White Sox]

The Redsox aren't trading those 2 in July. If the Sox want one, wait until the offseason to fashion a trade.

What they should do is ask for their top 5 prospects, and then bargain down from there. Top ML ready prospects is where the surplus lies this time of year...not with major league players. That's how you find players to fill multiple holes.

If the Sox got Betts, that would be about it, except, perhaps for a low level prospect or 2. Don't trade him if that's the case.

I agree with this. Bradley & Betts are both terrific players, but if the Red Sox are willing to give up one of them (only in the offseason mind you), they'll represent the majority of your return. Sure, you'd get some prospects back, but not Moncada or Benintendi types. And these guys only have four years of control left, which means you'll only have them for a year or two while your team is actually competive. Honestly, I would rather just have their top four prospects (two of whom are elite) plus Eduardo Rodriguez (value low right now) and at least one B spect. Not only are you getting back a lot more pieces (which we need), but you'd also have six years of control for the ones that do work out, which fits better into our competive timeline.

 

Also, for all of you saying we don't move Sale unless it's the most lopsided trade in sports history, what value does Sale really provide us over the next three years? We're not winning anytime soon if we hold onto him. On top of that, his value will never be higher given the current market for starting pitching and his length of control. As that control erodes, so does his value and each & every year is another chance he gets injured. Now is definitely the time to convert Sale's incredible short term value to competive teams into an insane amount of future value for us. We will get an absolute haul if we move Sale right now, we just have to be realistic on what "insane" looks like.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think Q might be dealt before this years deadline. I'm starting to get the feeling that they will hold onto Sale until after the season where you could potentially have 20 teams bidding for his services.

The problem is there aren't anywhere close to 20 teams that can provide us with what we need in a Sale trade. In fact, there are only a handful of teams and most of them are currently in a playoff race. In all honestly, now is the time to deal both Sale & Quintana, but I won't be upset if they wait until the offseason to move one of these guys.

[Bananarchy]

The problem is there aren't anywhere close to 20 teams that can provide us with what we need in a Sale trade. In fact, there are only a handful of teams and most of them are currently in a playoff race. In all honestly, now is the time to deal both Sale & Quintana, but I won't be upset if they wait until the offseason to move one of these guys.

You know that, I know that, the White Sox know that, but even if there are 10 teams that want and can't land Sale, they drive up the price for the teams that can afford him.

[maggsmaggs]

In a deal for Sale with the Red Sox we need to at least be getting Betts or JBJ, and their top 3-4 prospects and a b prospect or two

Ya, that's not that happening. Betts and JBJ alone are close to equal in value to Sale over the next 3-4 years due to their contracts and performances. You aren't getting Moncada/Benintendi/Devers PLUS JBJ or Betts.

 

In a deal with the Red Sox, the best you could hope for is one of Moncada/Benintendi, one of Devers/Kopech and a couple other B-level prospects.

Edited July 23, 2016 by maggsmaggs

[Chicago White Sox]

Ya, that's not that happening. Betts and JBJ alone are close to equal in value to Sale over the next 3-4 years due to their contracts and performances. You aren't getting Moncada/Benintendi/Devers PLUS JBJ or Betts.

 

In a deal with the Red Sox, the best you could hope for is one of Moncada/Benintendi, one of Devers/Kopech and a couple other B-level prospects.

For Chris Sale? The Red Sox just traded a top 20 prospect for Drew Pomerenz. While I'm in agreement with you on your first statement, you're seriously undervaluing him in your second.

[maggsmaggs]

For Chris Sale? The Red Sox just traded a top 20 prospect for Drew Pomerenz. While I'm in agreement with you on your first statement, you're seriously undervaluing him in your second.

 

This is main problem with trading Sale, his value is so high that it is really hard to find the same value in a trade. The Red Sox are not going to gut their entire system for Sale after the Pomeranz deal, in my opinion.

[PolishPrince34]

I feel their only 3 contender teams that can pull off a trade for Sale that carry the offense talent we need to bring to the organization: Red Sox, Rangers, and Cubs. Houston can also be included, but I'm only sold on Bergman with Houston organization. I can't see the Sox making a major trade with the Cubs this this year or even in the future. Dodgers have the depth to get involved, but don't have the upper echlon hitters that we need to upgrade our offense. It really leaves us with the Red Sox and Rangers.

 

Starting point:

Red Sox: Moncado, Benintedi, Devers, Kopech, PTBL: Groome for Sale and Robertson

Rangers: Profar, Gallo, Brinson, Ortiz, Tavarez, De Leon for Sale

 

If Cubs get involved:

Schwarber, Baez, Jimenez, Torres, Happ for Sale. You have to really hurt the Cubs if your trading a Chris Sale to them.

Edited July 23, 2016 by PolishPrince34

[Special K]

I feel their only 3 contender teams that can pull off a trade for Sale that carry the offense talent we need to bring to the organization: Red Sox, Rangers, and Cubs. Houston can also be included, but I'm only sold on Bergman with Houston organization. I can't see the Sox making a major trade with the Cubs this this year or even in the future. Dodgers have the depth to get involved, but don't have the upper echlon hitters that we need to upgrade our offense. It really leaves us with the Red Sox and Rangers.

 

Starting point:

Red Sox: Moncado, Bientienadi, Devers, Kopech, PTBL: Groome for Sale and Robertson

Rangers: Profar, Gallo, Brinson, Ortiz, Tavarez, De Leon for Sale

 

If Cubs get involved:

Schwarber, Baez, Jimenez, Torres, Happ for Sale. You have to really hurt the Cubs if your trading a Chris Sale to them.

 

 

None of those deals entice me... especially not the Cubs deal. Baez is one of those players who will suck on the white sox. Never get on base, strike out a ton, and hit some homers. We would essentially be giving up a hall of fame pitcher in his prime for a better version of Matt Stairs. Don't get me wrong, Stairsy wasn't a bad player in his prime, but not worth Sale.

[PolishPrince34]

None of those deals entice me... especially not the Cubs deal. Baez is one of those players who will suck on the white sox. Never get on base, strike out a ton, and hit some homers. We would essentially be giving up a hall of fame pitcher in his prime for a better version of Matt Stairs. Don't get me wrong, Stairsy wasn't a bad player in his prime, but not worth Sale.

I would do any of those 3 deals in a hearbeat

[Dick Allen]

I feel their only 3 contender teams that can pull off a trade for Sale that carry the offense talent we need to bring to the organization: Red Sox, Rangers, and Cubs. Houston can also be included, but I'm only sold on Bergman with Houston organization. I can't see the Sox making a major trade with the Cubs this this year or even in the future. Dodgers have the depth to get involved, but don't have the upper echlon hitters that we need to upgrade our offense. It really leaves us with the Red Sox and Rangers.

 

Starting point:

Red Sox: Moncado, Bientienadi, Devers, Kopech, PTBL: Groome for Sale and Robertson

Rangers: Profar, Gallo, Brinson, Ortiz, Tavarez, De Leon for Sale

 

If Cubs get involved:

Schwarber, Baez, Jimenez, Torres, Happ for Sale. You have to really hurt the Cubs if your trading a Chris Sale to them.

Good luck. The problem is Sale's value to the White Sox far exceeds what other teams woul be willing to give up. They will just go down a tier or 2 and save prospects. Levine with hi Soler/Baez for Sale is probably more in line with what the real offers are vs what we all hope. The Sox now are screwed again. If they trade these guys for realistic packages they will get hammered by everyone. If they don't cave in they will be accused of business as usual, with no clue.

 

Just go back a year. They hang on to Shark after a hot streak. Yet according to some with no sources, they could have traded the pending free agent who led the league in HR allowed, hits allowed, and earned runs allowed that would have blown away the value of the comp pick they ultimately received.

 

Sale is like a $50 million house. Yeah you might be worth billions and can afford it, but isn't the $25 million house enough house for you? Especially if you need several houses.

[Bob Sacamano]

Good luck. The problem is Sale's value to the White Sox far exceeds what other teams woul be willing to give up. They will just go down a tier or 2 and save prospects. Levine with hi Soler/Baez for Sale is probably more in line with what the real offers are vs what we all hope. The Sox now are screwed again. If they trade these guys for realistic packages they will get hammered by everyone. If they don't cave in they will be accused of business as usual, with no clue.

 

Just go back a year. They hang on to Shark after a hot streak. Yet according to some with no sources, they could have traded the pending free agent who led the league in HR allowed, hits allowed, and earned runs allowed that would have blown away the value of the comp pick they ultimately received.

 

Sale is like a $50 million house. Yeah you might be worth billions and can afford it, but isn't the $25 million house enough house for you? Especially if you need several houses.

 

 

There were tweets from insiders saying they had a deal with the Giants lined up but wanted to wait out the hot streak before deciding to trade him.

 

I do get what you're saying overall though. I really doubt Sale and Quintana are going anywhere this year or even in the offseason. I think a year from now is way more realistic as it'll be the final year of "the three year plan" and they will each have a little less control making a deal more closer.

[Whisox05]

#SFGiants also checked in on cashner but their need is more bullpen. Dodgers seem to be aiming even higher. TB guys? Sale?

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/756868048234119168

[beautox]

I feel their only 3 contender teams that can pull off a trade for Sale that carry the offense talent we need to bring to the organization: Red Sox, Rangers, and Cubs. Houston can also be included, but I'm only sold on Bergman with Houston organization. I can't see the Sox making a major trade with the Cubs this this year or even in the future. Dodgers have the depth to get involved, but don't have the upper echlon hitters that we need to upgrade our offense. It really leaves us with the Red Sox and Rangers.

 

Starting point:

Red Sox: Moncado, Benintedi, Devers, Kopech, PTBL: Groome for Sale and Robertson

Rangers: Profar, Gallo, Brinson, Ortiz, Tavarez, De Leon for Sale

 

If Cubs get involved:

Schwarber, Baez, Jimenez, Torres, Happ for Sale. You have to really hurt the Cubs if your trading a Chris Sale to them.

 

You can't trade Groome as a PTBNL any more because of the Trea Turner rule, if you wanted Groome the deal would have to be made past the world seires.

[GreenSox]

Good luck. The problem is Sale's value to the White Sox far exceeds what other teams woul be willing to give up.

I think that's probably true.

 

But as for the million dollar house analogy, Sale is a million dollar house, and they have a few other 1/2 million dollar houses, but drive a yugo and wear suits from Goodwill. That may be a reason to try to move him or others.

Edited July 23, 2016 by GreenSox

[daggins]

Yeah lets get silly with this analogy - the Sox can sell their 50 million house and drive a Neon and wear Haggar slacks for two years, then blow all the saved cash on Bryce Harper just as the CDs (prospects) they bought this deadline mature!!!! Its a bonanza!

[daggins]

#SFGiants also checked in on cashner but their need is more bullpen. Dodgers seem to be aiming even higher. TB guys? Sale?

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/756868048234119168

 

Dodgers were linked (lightly) to Quintana, but they have also been pushing for Archer, who makes a lot of sense for them.

[GreenSox]

Full value for Sale consists of:

 

1)Status as top 5 pitcher (Contenders need a really good pitcher, but they don't necessarily need a top 5, so they may not be willing to pay for a top 5).

2)Control for another 3/4 years (3/4 years of control isn't that important now when you're trying to win a WS)

3)Annual contract well below market value (most of the contenders can easily afford a high contract, so they aren't willing to pay full prospect price of a cheaper contract)

 

So much of the value that the White Sox receive in Sale could be under-valued by other teams. Very difficult to get a meeting of the minds, much less in July when sellers rightfully expect to be overpaid.

 

Now Hahn should be able to move other guys, unless he's still howling at the moon

Edited July 23, 2016 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

And if you don't get a ridiculous return for Chris Sale, the downfall is that he is yours until next decade... oh wait.

[hi8is]

Dodgers were linked (lightly) to Quintana, but they have also been pushing for Archer, who makes a lot of sense for them.

Just imagine how Sale and Q will fare in the NL. Good golly gosh.

[Chicago White Sox]

And if you don't get a ridiculous return for Chris Sale, the downfall is that he is yours until next decade... oh wait.

Awesome, except there is no easy path to build around him and you're more likely than not to lose him for nothing in three years with no playoff appearances to show for it. That's about as big of a downfall as it gets.

[southsider2k5]

Awesome, except there is no easy path to build around him and you're more likely than not to lose him for nothing in three years with no playoff appearances to show for it. That's about as big of a downfall as it gets.

 

There is no easy path to build without him. That is the fallacy here.

[Rowand44]

There is no easy path to build without him. That is the fallacy here.

There's no easy path here, period. But the path of trying to build around Sale and Q has led us to 0 playoff appearances in 5 years now.

[Chicago White Sox]

There is no easy path to build without him. That is the fallacy here.

I've outlined a plan to build without him, so have others. I have not seen one single plan on how we can win with him before he leaves before free agency. By all means, share your plan if you have one. Otherwise, don't call rebuilding a fallacy, because it's the only course of action with actual logic to it IMO.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

I've outlined a plan to build without him, so have others. I have not seen one single plan on how we can win with him before he leaves before free agency. By all means, share your plan if you have one. Otherwise, don't call rebuilding a fallacy, because it's course of action with actual logic to it IMO.

 

Calling it an "easy path" is clearly a fallacy. Instead of having known quantities, you have multiple unknown quantities that you need to all go right, in a really narrrow window of time. It is not "easy". Otherwise teams wouldn't routinely fail at it. For a competely modern version, ask the Twins how rebuilding is working as they are on to their 3rd GM and 2nd manager in recent years, and as bad as they have been in decades.

[Special K]

Sale's value is way too high. Trading a hall of fame pitcher in his prime who gets paid like mid-rotation starter in the league would be utter insanity.

 

Much likelier to get better value in return for Q. Just do that...