southsider2k5 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Today's Knuckleball @KnuckleballFRS .@JonHeyman explains why better offers will come in the offseason for the #WhiteSox Chris Sale and Jose Quintana - http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al/chicago-white-sox/heyman-better-offers-sale-quintana-will-come-offseason/ …://http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al...me-offseason/ … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 11, 2016 -> 12:23 PM) Today's Knuckleball @KnuckleballFRS .@JonHeyman explains why better offers will come in the offseason for the #WhiteSox Chris Sale and Jose Quintana - http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al/chicago-white-sox/heyman-better-offers-sale-quintana-will-come-offseason/ …://http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al...me-offseason/ …://http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al...me-offseason/ … What a fantastic article... Not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I heard yesterday that since the All Star break, Red Sox starting pitching has been ranked 3rd in AL. Their offense and bullpen was in a funk. Their offense certainly tore up AZ this weekend but we will see when they hit the road. Unfortunately Benintendi has been on a tear since he was called up which could inflate his value next winter if he keeps it up. I think DD will trade some of his young talent to patch other holes and not go for the KO w Sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) I heard yesterday that since the All Star break, Red Sox starting pitching has been ranked 3rd in AL. Their offense and bullpen was in a funk. Their offense certainly tore up AZ this weekend but we will see when they hit the road. Unfortunately Benintendi has been on a tear since he was called up which could inflate his value next winter if he keeps it up. I think DD will trade some of his young talent to patch other holes and not go for the KO w Sale. Boston doesn't really have any holes besides their starting rotation and bullpen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Boston doesn't really have any holes besides their starting rotation and bullpen though. So only 12 players out of their 25 man roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) So only 12 players out of their 25 man roster? He made it sound like they might rather patch "other holes" and not trade for Sale so it sounded like starters were excluded based on that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Sale's numbers have a lot of warning signs. They're not going to trade a boat load of prospects for him. And the White Sox can't afford to trade him unless they GET a boat load of prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 06:25 PM) Sale's numbers have a lot of warning signs. They're not going to trade a boat load of prospects for him. And the White Sox can't afford to trade him unless they GET a boat load of prospects. Horrible bind to be in considering how they struggle to put a good team around him. Some other nice pieces to have but overall blah. Edited August 15, 2016 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 05:23 PM) He made it sound like they might rather patch "other holes" and not trade for Sale so it sounded like starters were excluded based on that comment. No, my point was they are more apt to trade 3 or 4 prospects to fill 2-3 holes. They need some bullpen help and they need another starter. They may be more likely to add someone like Archer that may only cost them 2 of their 2nd tier prospects. It sounds like Ramirez moves to DH, Shaw to 1st . Then they also need a 3B but they have Sandoval coming back and Devers on his way up and Moncada a wildcard. Their catching is also iffy unless Vazquez starts hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 06:56 PM) Horrible bind to be in considering how they struggle to put a good team around him. Some other nice pieces to have but overall blah. Since when is having one of the best pitchers in the game locked up for 3.25 seasons at about 20% of his annual value a bind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) Since when is having one of the best pitchers in the game locked up for 3.25 seasons at about 20% of his annual value a bind? I shouldn't have said bind. But they operate where they struggle to put a team around him yet have the guy who can bring back close-to-MLB pieces to plug a few spots is what I'm referring to. They don't have anything else to move to bring in talent to help the MLB team. They have a few in the minors, but trading those guys would hurt. Edited August 17, 2016 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 01:31 PM) I shouldn't have said bind. But they operate where they struggle to put a team around him yet have the guy who can bring back close-to-MLB pieces to plug a few spots is what I'm referring to. They don't have anything else to move to bring in talent to help the MLB team. They have a few in the minors, but trading those guys would hurt. There are definitely other pieces that could be moved that would help. But then you hurt the MLB team. I get what you're saying tho. Sox are gonna give it one more go around in 2017 - if it fails, I guarantee you this team is completely ripped down next July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 04:32 PM) There are definitely other pieces that could be moved that would help. But then you hurt the MLB team. I get what you're saying tho. Sox are gonna give it one more go around in 2017 - if it fails, I guarantee you this team is completely ripped down next July. I have no idea how you could possibly come to this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) I have no idea how you could possibly come to this conclusion. Pretty simple really. Let's say the Sox do some patchwork acquisitions to fill CF, C and DH this offseason like many suspect....signing Carlos Gomez, Jason Castro, and resigning Morneau, for instance. Then the Sox are under .500 come mid-July 2017...they're going to trade off pieces. Beyond those three that presumably would have been signed to one year deals you have.... Melky, Frazier and Lawrie who are all FAs after next year. Trading those three alone (in addition to the patchworks acquisitions) completely changes the complexion of the roster. Gonzales would be moved with only a few months of control left. Shields if someone would take on what the Sox owe him. Robertson will be moved. You're going to get the same type of package for Sale and/or Q next July as you would have this July, but you actually get 30 more starts out of those guys (why I was never for trading them to begin with). It still may be hard to get max value with pitchers of that skill level with 2.5 and 3.5 years of control still left, though. Guessing they'll still be held onto until winter following 2017. At that point, what is left? No reason to trade Rodon or Anderson. They should keep Eaton around as hes very good and cheap. Maybe Abreu will have a big bounce back year and will be worth a ton again, if not, keep him as he's still a value. Selling next season always made more sense than this season, IMO. With so many contracts coming off the books after 2017, it made sense to give it one shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I could see them trading Q or Sale this offseason, adding a modestly big-ticket FA and then going for it again in 2017. Which is why it would be nice to get that protected draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 15, 2016 -> 06:25 PM) Sale's numbers have a lot of warning signs. They're not going to trade a boat load of prospects for him. And the White Sox can't afford to trade him unless they GET a boat load of prospects. What exactly do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 All sorts of metrics: contact rates against are way up. velocity down a bit. hard hit balls% up. comprehensive pitching measure like SIERA and xFIP at career highs. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) Pretty simple really. Let's say the Sox do some patchwork acquisitions to fill CF, C and DH this offseason like many suspect....signing Carlos Gomez, Jason Castro, and resigning Morneau, for instance. Then the Sox are under .500 come mid-July 2017...they're going to trade off pieces. Beyond those three that presumably would have been signed to one year deals you have.... Melky, Frazier and Lawrie who are all FAs after next year. Trading those three alone (in addition to the patchworks acquisitions) completely changes the complexion of the roster. Gonzales would be moved with only a few months of control left. Shields if someone would take on what the Sox owe him. Robertson will be moved. You're going to get the same type of package for Sale and/or Q next July as you would have this July, but you actually get 30 more starts out of those guys (why I was never for trading them to begin with). It still may be hard to get max value with pitchers of that skill level with 2.5 and 3.5 years of control still left, though. Guessing they'll still be held onto until winter following 2017. At that point, what is left? No reason to trade Rodon or Anderson. They should keep Eaton around as hes very good and cheap. Maybe Abreu will have a big bounce back year and will be worth a ton again, if not, keep him as he's still a value. Selling next season always made more sense than this season, IMO. With so many contracts coming off the books after 2017, it made sense to give it one shot. While I definitely appreciate your opinion and the thought you put into this post, I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with all of it. If you think this organization is going to sell off pieces next trade deadline if they're around .500, you're just fooling yourself my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) While I definitely appreciate your opinion and the thought you put into this post, I'm just going to go ahead and disagree with all of it. If you think this organization is going to sell off pieces next trade deadline if they're around .500, you're just fooling yourself my friend. OK, so what do you think will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) OK, so what do you think will happen? Almost an exact replica of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) All sorts of metrics: contact rates against are way up. velocity down a bit. hard hit balls% up. comprehensive pitching measure like SIERA and xFIP at career highs. etc. etc. Doesn't his approach to hitters this year kind of cause that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) Doesn't his approach to hitters this year kind of cause that? possible, but if I'm another GM I'm not betting my job on it. at least not for some of the insane packages people were fantasizing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) possible, but if I'm another GM I'm not betting my job on it. at least not for some of the insane packages people were fantasizing about. You give other Gms way too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) You give other Gms way too much credit. we'll see. I'm not in the trade Sale camp, but if somebody's going to offer the sun and the moon and the stars too, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeGone7 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) Pretty simple really. Let's say the Sox do some patchwork acquisitions to fill CF, C and DH this offseason like many suspect....signing Carlos Gomez, Jason Castro, and resigning Morneau, for instance. Then the Sox are under .500 come mid-July 2017...they're going to trade off pieces. Beyond those three that presumably would have been signed to one year deals you have.... Melky, Frazier and Lawrie who are all FAs after next year. Trading those three alone (in addition to the patchworks acquisitions) completely changes the complexion of the roster. Gonzales would be moved with only a few months of control left. Shields if someone would take on what the Sox owe him. Robertson will be moved. You're going to get the same type of package for Sale and/or Q next July as you would have this July, but you actually get 30 more starts out of those guys (why I was never for trading them to begin with). It still may be hard to get max value with pitchers of that skill level with 2.5 and 3.5 years of control still left, though. Guessing they'll still be held onto until winter following 2017. At that point, what is left? No reason to trade Rodon or Anderson. They should keep Eaton around as hes very good and cheap. Maybe Abreu will have a big bounce back year and will be worth a ton again, if not, keep him as he's still a value. Selling next season always made more sense than this season, IMO. With so many contracts coming off the books after 2017, it made sense to give it one shot. Wow. Best of luck. Edited August 18, 2016 by HeGone7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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