Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Trading Chris Sale isn't going to put more people into the outfield stands. In fact it will do the opposite for the short term, at least. If they get the kind of MLB ready-elite type talent like what has been rumored to be coming the team's way in any deal for Sale, who will improve the team's overall chances at success (i.e., the whole point of trading Sale at this time), then there will inevitably be more fans in the stands as the results of the team improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) If they get the kind of MLB ready-elite type talent like what has been rumored to be coming the team's way in any deal for Sale, who will improve the team's overall chances at success (i.e., the whole point of trading Sale at this time), then there will inevitably be more fans in the stands as the results of the team improve. If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will go down in 2017. No question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will go down in 2017. No question about it. Even if the team plays better, wins more, and is more exciting to watch overall as a result of the new players obtained? Attendance will go down, you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Even if the team plays better, wins more, and is more exciting to watch overall as a result of the new players obtained? Attendance will go down, you think? I will put money on it right here and now. If the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) I will put money on it right here and now. If the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. I'm gonna shock the bejeezus outta ya and take a completely different take. I say that winning trumps Sale's presence on the team. You might have had me if, for example, there were 40,000 people packed into the park on night's Sale pitched, but obviously that hasn't been the case. The overall malaise around the team caused by the playoff drought and the recent losing seasons has taken the shine off of having a talent such as Sale on the team, which explains the team's continued attendance problems. That's why the time has come for a clean slate, and hopefully by trading Sale at his maximum value will result in bringing in some new and exciting talent that will produce better results for the team on the field, and then ultimately for the team at the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) I will put money on it right here and now. Regardless of whether or not the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. There's my reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) I'm gonna shock the bejeezus outta ya and take a completely different take. I say that winning trumps Sale's presence on the team. You might have had me if, for example, there were 40,000 people packed into the park on night's Sale pitched, but obviously that hasn't been the case. The overall malaise around the team caused by the playoff drought and the recent losing seasons has taken the shine off of having a talent such as Sale on the team, which explains the team's continued attendance problems. That's why the time has come for a clean slate, and hopefully by trading Sale at his maximum value will result in bringing in some new and exciting talent that will produce better results for the team on the field, and then ultimately for the team at the gate. I am not going to play the what if game. I don't feel the need to hide behind imagined scenarios. If Chris Sale is traded, attendance will fall in 2017. You can take me up, or try to imagine scenarios. The choice is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) I am not going to play the what if game. I don't feel the need to hide behind imagined scenarios. If Chris Sale is traded, attendance will fall in 2017. You can take me up, or try to imagine scenarios. The choice is up to you. There are no imagined scenarios, but rather two actual ones which can occur. The Sox will be better without Sale, or worse. If they are better and win more, which there is a good chance of this happening if they obtain the kinds of players they've been rumored to be interested in, then attendance goes up. Fans are far more interested in winning than the presence of any one player. If they play worse, then attendance could go down, but you wonder how much farther down it can actually go, y'know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:10 PM) There's my reply. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) There are no imagined scenarios, but rather two actual ones which can occur. The Sox will be better without Sale, or worse. If they are better and win more, which there is a good chance of this happening if they obtain the kinds of players they've been rumored to be interested in, then attendance goes up. Fans are far more interested in winning than the presence of any one player. If they play worse, then attendance could go down, but you wonder how much farther down it can actually go, y'know? Yeah, Sox fan history totally doesn't agree with you. Look back at White Flag where team attendance fell by 25% year over year. Take a look at 2012 and 2008 where the team was in the playoff race both seasons, and attendance still fell year over year. To me this is a much more realistic lesson on what to expect than some imaginary scenario where the Sox get immediately better from trading their best player, and for some reason Sox fans realize it before day one and still show up. Again, I am willing to put money on it. If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will fall in 2017. Period. End of story. No qualifiers. No imaginary what if scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Yeah, Sox fan history totally doesn't agree with you. Look back at White Flag where team attendance fell by 25% year over year. Take a look at 2012 and 2008 where the team was in the playoff race both seasons, and attendance still fell year over year. To me this is a much more realistic lesson on what to expect than some imaginary scenario where the Sox get immediately better from trading their best player, and for some reason Sox fans realize it before day one and still show up. Again, I am willing to put money on it. If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will fall in 2017. Period. End of story. No qualifiers. No imaginary what if scenarios. 1990 and 2000 called and said "Hey, SS2K5! Check us out if you want to see how Sox fans respond, attendance-wise, to a new, young winning team! We will take your money any day of the week!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) 1990 and 2000 called and said "Hey, SS2K5! Check us out if you want to see how Sox fans respond, attendance-wise, to a new, young winning team! We will take your money any day of the week!" So what happened in 2008 and 2012? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) 1990 and 2000 called and said "Hey, SS2K5! Check us out if you want to see how Sox fans respond, attendance-wise, to a new, young winning team! We will take your money any day of the week!" What did 2008 and 2012 call and say? And Sox fans love winners so much, in 2005, the year they never were not in first place, their attendance was almost league average. They had a 3 game home series in September that drew about 45k total. Nice. Edited September 13, 2016 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:05 PM) What did 2008 and 2012 call and say? If he was really that confident he wouldn't be ignoring my offer. That's OK, I think he knows the truth and is just arguing for argument's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Attendance will fall if they trade him or not. This franchise is in a death spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:14 PM) Attendance will fall if they trade him or not. This franchise is in a death spiral. ^ Doesn't matter what they do this offseason. This season will have a lasting effect on the fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) If he was really that confident he wouldn't be ignoring my offer. That's OK, I think he knows the truth and is just arguing for argument's sake. [Eye roll followed by exhausted sigh] Ok, SS2K5. You're on. Put yer George Washington's on the table. Borrow some from Dick Allen if you have to. On behalf of Thad Bosley LLP, I accept this compelling offer of yours re: 2017 attendance. If the Sox trade Sale and in the process bring back the kind of elite talent one would expect in a deal for him, and if the result is better play and more winning next year, then attendance will go up. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:38 PM) [Eye roll followed by exhausted sigh] Ok, SS2K5. You're on. Put yer George Washington's on the table. Borrow some from Dick Allen if you have to. On behalf of Thad Bosley LLP, I accept this compelling offer of yours re: 2017 attendance. If the Sox trade Sale and in the process bring back the kind of elite talent one would expect in a deal for him, and if the result is better play and more winning next year, then attendance will go up. Simple as that. I already see you built in an excuse to get out of it. Like I said, its simple. If Sale is gone, attendance will fall. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Remember when the White Sox when 24-10 and there was a rumor of 100,000 tickets sold to fans looking to come out. Attendance last night was really something. Beautiful night for baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) I already see you built in an excuse to get out of it. Like I said, its simple. If Sale is gone, attendance will fall. Period. I haven't built in anything. I was clear from the beginning that if they traded Sale for a bag of balls and nothing improves on the field, sure, attendance will either stay at the same miserable level its at, or possibly get worse. My point from the start is that if they get the kind of talent it at least appears they will, and that translates to better results on the field (i.e., MORE WINNING), then attendance goes up. That's what's simple. Period. That is the offer. Take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) I haven't built in anything. I was clear from the beginning that if they traded Sale for a bag of balls and nothing improves on the field, sure, attendance will either stay at the same miserable level its at, or possibly get worse. My point from the start is that if they get the kind of talent it at least appears they will, and that translates to better results on the field (i.e., MORE WINNING), then attendance goes up. That's what's simple. Period. That is the offer. Take it or leave it. I don't need to build in exceptions. If the Sox trade Sale, attendance will go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 What about the fans that go occasionally and plan to go to Sale games? Wouldn't a portion of those fans adjust and see Quintana instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) I don't need to build in exceptions. If the Sox trade Sale, attendance will go down. Winning baseball >>>>>>> Presence of any one ballplayer, even Chris Sale Remember, there is no correlation with good attendance while Sale has been on the team. Attendance has been lousy in each season he's been here. Winning baseball, on the other hand, does have a track record with good attendance for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success? You mean an ace Sale's age AND an ace with the type of team-friendly contract he has and the years left of control? Don't know if that example exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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