White Sox Listening on Sale

[southsider2k5]

Winning baseball >>>>>>> Presence of any one ballplayer, even Chris Sale

 

Remember, there is no correlation with good attendance while Sale has been on the team. Attendance has been lousy in each season he's been here. Winning baseball, on the other hand, does have a track record with good attendance for the team.

 

This is pretty straight forward. There will be a fall off in attendance after a Sale trade.

 

Even if by some miracle, the Sox return pays some sort of instant dividends, recent history dictates that Sox fans probably wouldn't jump on to the bandwagon with any sort of speed. Maybe if they won in '17 and kept winning in 18, attendance would go up then, but then again, probably not.

 

Even in a season like 2008, where they won a division, attendance fell off over the previous year. Even in a season like 2012, where they were in first place until the last two weeks, attendance fell. Add in the factor that a good portion of the bandwagon section of the fanbase will be angry because they traded their best player.

[Dick Allen]

You mean an ace Sale's age AND an ace with the type of team-friendly contract he has and the years left of control? Don't know if that example exists.

Any old ace will do. The Sox fans want to trade,2 basically. All that,will do for you Thad, is even though they will do exactly what you want, it pretty much guarantees you a few more years of griping about Reinsdorf. Perfect for you

 

[Pants Rowland]

You mean an ace Sale's age AND an ace with the type of team-friendly contract he has and the years left of control? Don't know if that example exists.

 

The flaw I see here is the idea that the Sox would get seasoned major league talent in return. That is probably the only way they could play well enough to turn fans heads in April/May 2017, resulting in significant attendance growth over the ensuing months. A trade of Sale may include 1-2 MLB ready players talent-wise, but they will likely have growing pains at best, and several of the new players will also turn out to be busts. That may entice hardcore fans to tune in more, but not enough to make up for the loss of Sale or the disappointment of 2016. MLB attendance is typically driven by prior year performance, and the Sox will not be the exception to that rule.

[Thad Bosley]

Any old ace will do. The Sox fans want to trade,2 basically. All that,will do for you Thad, is even though they will do exactly what you want, it pretty much guarantees you a few more years of griping about Reinsdorf. Perfect for you

Ahhh, the quality you contribute to the discussions around here just sometimes extends beyond all expectations. No, really - nice work there. Keep up the good work, 'ol chum!

[southsider2k5]

The flaw I see here is the idea that the Sox would get seasoned major league talent in return. That is probably the only way they could play well enough to turn fans heads in April/May 2017, resulting in significant attendance growth over the ensuing months. A trade of Sale may include 1-2 MLB ready players talent-wise, but they will likely have growing pains at best, and several of the new players will also turn out to be busts. That may entice hardcore fans to tune in more, but not enough to make up for the loss of Sale or the disappointment of 2016. MLB attendance is typically driven by prior year performance, and the Sox will not be the exception to that rule.

 

Totally this. If we saw results, I see it being a tiny minuscule chance that we see the results early in 2017. Most likely the full return would be somewhere between 2018 and 2020.

[caulfield12]

This is pretty straight forward. There will be a fall off in attendance after a Sale trade.

 

Even if by some miracle, the Sox return pays some sort of instant dividends, recent history dictates that Sox fans probably wouldn't jump on to the bandwagon with any sort of speed. Maybe if they won in '17 and kept winning in 18, attendance would go up then, but then again, probably not.

 

Even in a season like 2008, where they won a division, attendance fell off over the previous year. Even in a season like 2012, where they were in first place until the last two weeks, attendance fell. Add in the factor that a good portion of the bandwagon section of the fanbase will be angry because they traded their best player.

 

This is obvious. 2007 pretty much destroyed the momentum of the 3 million attendance post World Series in 2006.

2011 was historically disappointing with Dunn.

 

Naturally expectations and season ticket buyers were way down the following years. If the White Sox finished 06, 07 or 11 in a competitive fashion, things would have looked quite different.

 

Attendance is up this year despite a crap offseason and more disappointment because of those extra tockets they sold due to the 23-10 start.

 

If you were one of those fans who bought back in again or even purchased MLB tv, how would you be feeling about right now? Your reward for doing that was watching Sox fifth starters (especially Shields) look historically inept.

Edited September 13, 2016 by caulfield12

[Hatchetman]

Burt Blyleven was traded by the Twins in 1976. Attendance went up in 1977 but that was a terrible trade.

[Thad Bosley]

The flaw I see here is the idea that the Sox would get seasoned major league talent in return. That is probably the only way they could play well enough to turn fans heads in April/May 2017, resulting in significant attendance growth over the ensuing months. A trade of Sale may include 1-2 MLB ready players talent-wise, but they will likely have growing pains at best, and several of the new players will also turn out to be busts. That may entice hardcore fans to tune in more, but not enough to make up for the loss of Sale or the disappointment of 2016. MLB attendance is typically driven by prior year performance, and the Sox will not be the exception to that rule.

You bring up good points. Still, if the players they acquire in the offseason rebuild do click with the current young Sox like Rodon, Anderson and Fulmer, resulting in a winning season like the ones in 1990 and 2000, attendance will go up. After these past four seasons of brutal ball played by the Sox, the base is very hungry for something to be excited about, and will respond accordingly if the Sox turn it around next year and start winning.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Thad Bosley]

This is pretty straight forward. There will be a fall off in attendance after a Sale trade.

 

Even if by some miracle, the Sox return pays some sort of instant dividends, recent history dictates that Sox fans probably wouldn't jump on to the bandwagon with any sort of speed. Maybe if they won in '17 and kept winning in 18, attendance would go up then, but then again, probably not.

 

Even in a season like 2008, where they won a division, attendance fell off over the previous year. Even in a season like 2012, where they were in first place until the last two weeks, attendance fell. Add in the factor that a good portion of the bandwagon section of the fanbase will be angry because they traded their best player.

SS2K5, do you think you'll go to more games or fewer games next year if the Sox trade Sale but all of a sudden start playing winning baseball?

[caulfield12]

Well, you never know, if Salazar isn't the same pitcher he was the first 3-4 months this year (has had a big workload increase), anything's possible.

 

But the Royals and Tigers will be hungry at the start of the season, particularly if the Tigers miss out on the post-season (they're already blowing 2 games in the standings this week) and then the Royals have their final chance with their core all together...and Minnesota's offense has really been impressive the last 6-8 weeks.

 

It's seemingly pretty wide open. Of course, the off season will change things significantly.

[southsider2k5]

SS2K5, do you think you'll go to more games or fewer games next year if the Sox trade Sale but all of a sudden start playing winning baseball?

 

The same.

[southsider2k5]

You bring up good points. Still, if the players they acquire in the offseason rebuild do click with the current young Sox like Rodon, Anderson and Fulmer, resulting in a winning season like the ones in 1990 and 2000, attendance will go up. After these past four seasons of brutal ball played by the Sox, the base is very hungry for something to be excited about, and will respond accordingly if the Sox turn it around next year and start winning.

 

They didn't in 2008, even with the World Series and another 90 win season in the books. They didn't in 2012 either.

[caulfield12]

Reverse the 2006 season and have them not collapsing but playing like they did at the beginning of the season.

 

The Tigers and Twins just obliterated them and all fantasies of a dynasty were gone.

[Dick Allen]

People who have gone to White Sox home games have had a better chance of seeing their team win this year than all but 3 NL teams.

 

So people who bail aren't basing it on games they attended.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Thad Bosley]

The same.

Not fewer? But what if Sale is traded? You said attendance will absolutely go down if he's not in a Sox uni next year, yet it's not going to change your behavior at all. A bit of a disconnect here, to say the least. I think we can conclude if you, a White Sox fan, won't go to fewer games than you did in this past brutal season if Sale is traded, neither will other Sox fans

[Dick Allen]

They drew 2.5 million in 2008. Enough of your 2008. No point to make there.

They drew less than when they lost 90 games in 2007. You said WhiteSox fans come out for wins. Explain.

[Dick Allen]

Not fewer? But what if Sale is traded? You said attendance will absolutely go down if he's not in a Sox uni next year, yet it's not going to change your behavior at all. A bit of a disconnect here, to say the least. I think we can conclude if you, a White Sox fan, won't go to fewer games than you did in this past brutal season if Sale is traded, neither will other Sox fans

How will it differ for you? Remember, you can't tell if the season was exciting or not until after the World Series.

[Thad Bosley]

How will it differ for you? Remember, you can't tell if the season was exciting or not until after the World Series.

Not at all actually, thanks for asking. I'll go to the typical three games I make it to when I make my three typical visits to Chicago next summer. I can tell you that number won't be lower if Sale is, in fact, traded.

 

Now how about you, Dick? More games next year or fewer if Sale is traded? Going to pull back on that season ticket package if they trade Sale? According to the thinking of some, that is pretty much the inevitable outcome.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[southsider2k5]

Not fewer? But what if Sale is traded? You said attendance will absolutely go down if he's not in a Sox uni next year, yet it's not going to change your behavior at all. A bit of a disconnect here, to say the least. I think we can conclude if you, a White Sox fan, won't go to fewer games than you did in this past brutal season if Sale is traded, neither will other Sox fans

 

I thought this was pretty obvious, but I am not the entire White Sox fan base. Those numbers are out there, and tell a pretty clear story.

[Thad Bosley]

I thought this was pretty obvious, but I am not the entire White Sox fan base. Those numbers are out there, and tell a pretty clear story.

You seem like the typical Sox fan out there, so I expect the base, like you, won't alter their approach to attendance next year no matter what happens with Sale.

[Dick Allen]

Not at all actually, thanks for asking. I'll go to the typical three games I make it to when I make my three typical visits to Chicago next summer. I can tell you that number won't be lower if Sale is, in fact, traded.

 

Now how about you, Dick? More games next year or fewer if Sale is traded? Going to pull back on that season ticket package if they trade Sale? According to the thinking of some, that is pretty much the inevitable outcome.

Probably around the same. I am not changing my package, they treat us like kings, and I love going to games.

[Thad Bosley]

Probably around the same. I am not changing my package, they treat us like kings, and I love going to games.

Makes total sense. Sale leaving wouldn't impact your behavior as a Sox fan. The game and team always bigger than any one player.

[Dick Allen]

Makes total sense. Sale leaving wouldn't impact your behavior as a Sox fan. The game and team always bigger than any one player.

You are fooling yourself if you think that is typical.

[Thad Bosley]

You are fooling yourself if you think that is typical.

And people are fooling themselves if they think Sox fans will stay home next season if they start playing winning baseball in Sale's absence. Fans like yourself aren't going to change your behavior in terms of how many games you typically attend no matter how the Sox play if and when Sale is gone. Imagine what's going to happen if they start winning.

 

Do you even remember what that feels like? And Sox fans, after watching all of the excitement around the Cubs and how much fun their fans are having will heartily embrace the next Sox winning team. It's only human nature. Now to just get the team back to winning ways to prove this all out!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Jose Abreu]

Here's a question: why does a potential Sale trade's effect on attendance matter to you guys so much? It's 2016, and attendance means so little when it comes to team revenue. It's really just an insignificant figure Cubs fans use to feel better about themselves.