White Sox Listening on Sale

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Sorry man but your fowler, moreland, volquez, and wieters isn't turning the sox into contenders. Volquez has a 5.00+ era and puting up -.4 war this year. Sox would be better running out fulmer tho will probably have growing pains. Moreland isnt going to upgrade the lineup that much. Lets put him to comparison of Melky. Melky has a .292 avg, .343 obp .437 slg, .780 ops, 32 2b, 10 hrs, 71 rbi's, 114 ops+ and 1.8 war vs moreland .242 avg, .312 obp, .451 slg, .762 ops, 21 2b, 22 hrs, 58 rbi's, 98 ops+ and a 1.3 war for their 2016 stats sofar. So ya moreland will give you more homeruns and higher slugging. If the sox were to contend they need a better run producer then moreland. Hes pretty much a lesser version of dunn. Fowler isn't even guaranteed to be a free agent. Still has a mutual option with the cubs for next year. If he were to become a free agent i would imagine a qualifying offer being attached and sox weren't willing to give up a pick last year for him and dont imagine again this offseason. Being that hes a boras client i imagine the cost will be pretty high and sox dont cough up money. Wieters is again a boras client so I imagine boras trying to get as much out of him as possible money wise. He probably will have qualifying offer attached too and again sox didnt want to give up pick last and probably not this year. Plus again the sox dont cough up money. Also dont know how this going to be improved pen looks like. Petricka and Putnam arent going to put the sox over top especially not knowing how healthy they will be. Sox aren't going to throw money at chapman. The 2 biggest parts of the pen in jones and Robertson have blown 16 saves together of the 28 blowns saves from the entire pen that leads the majors. Thats 57% of the blown saves coming from you best options in the pen. Sox have some holes and being in one of the weakest free agent classes is not a good place to be in. Not much in minors to fill the gabs either at the majors or not alot of depth to trade

I already laid it out in other threads but I will repeat again here. Here's the lineup that I believe is absolutely a contender. I have already stated that it will cost the White Sox an additional $15-20MM in payroll compared to this season but if JR is truly going for it then these are the types of moves required to make the next step. Projected lineup using their 2016 statistics:

 

1. Fowler CF (833 OPS, wRC+ 127)

2. Eaton RF (798 OPS, wRC+ 116)

3. Abreu 1B/DH (832 OPS, wRC+ 119)

4. Cabrera LF (780 OPS, wRC+ 107)

5. Frazier 3B (749 OPS, wRC+ 96)

6. Moreland DH/1B (763 OPS, wRC+ 97)

7. Wieters C (701 OPS, wRC+ 84)

8. Lawrie 2B (723 OPS, wRC+ 91) / Saladino 2B (731 OPS, wRC+ 93)

9. Anderson SS (729 OPS, wRC+ 92)

 

You have 1 very good hitter, 2 good hitters, 1 slightly above average hitter, 2 average hitters, 2 slightly below average hitters, and 1 below average hitter. I see no reason why that is anything less than a league average offense. Combine that with 4 starters carrying an ERA under 4, including 2 guys just over 3, and all you need from the #5 starter is a mid to upper 4 ERA rather than the close to 8 they have gotten this season. I also expect a bullpen of Robertson, Jennings, Jones, Putnam, Petricka, Burdi, and ? via trade or FA to be improved from this season.

Edited September 14, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Sleepy Harold]

That's the whole problem with your argument, your "if" statement. I will guarantee the Sox have a worse record next year if they trade Sale and start the rebuilding process this offseason.

 

And if you don't think people come out to watch Chris Sale, then why were so many people upset and disappointed when Sale was a late scratch as a result of his suspension for ripping up the throwback jerseys? They should have been just as satisfied to watch Matt Albers start right? I think the Sox even won that game.

For one, and speaking only for myself, I was at that game and out in the parking lot once I got the alert that Sale was sratched. Once I found out the details of what actually happened I was disappointed that Sale wasn't traded and was scratched because of an idiotic act like going all Zorro on the team's throwbacks. And yeah, your guarantee is nice angle to take since "if" the sox trade Sale it would essentially signal a "rebuild", therefore the performance of the team overall would probably be worse considering the Ace of the staff had just been traded.

[Whisox05]

I already laid it out in other threads but I will repeat again here. Here's the lineup that I believe is absolutely a contender. I have already stated that it will cost the White Sox an additional $15-20MM in payroll compared to this season but if JR is truly going for it then these are the types of moves required to make the next step. Projected lineup using their 2016 statistics:

 

1. Fowler CF (833 OPS, wRC+ 127)

2. Eaton RF (798 OPS, wRC+ 116)

3. Abreu 1B/DH (832 OPS, wRC+ 119)

4. Cabrera LF (780 OPS, wRC+ 107)

5. Frazier 3B (749 OPS, wRC+ 96)

6. Moreland DH/1B (763 OPS, wRC+ 97)

7. Wieters C (701 OPS, wRC+ 84)

8. Lawrie 2B (723 OPS, wRC+ 91) / Saladino 2B (731 OPS, wRC+ 93)

9. Anderson SS (729 OPS, wRC+ 92)

 

You have 1 very good hitter, 2 good hitters, 1 slightly above average hitter, 2 average hitters, 2 slightly below average hitters, and 1 below average hitter. I see no reason why that is anything less than a league average offense. Combine that with 4 starters carrying an ERA under 4, including 2 guys just over 3, and all you need from the #5 starter is a mid to upper 4 ERA rather than the close to 8 they have gotten this season. I also expect a bullpen of Robertson, Jennings, Jones, Putnam, Petricka, Burdi, and ? via trade or FA to be improved from this season.

 

Again fowler is not a guarantee free agent. How do you get 15-20 million. Fowler if becomes availabile would be about 10-15 by himself a year. Hes getting 8 now and would be 9 if he stays. Since hes upped his value and if he did become a free agent hes getting a nice chunk especially since boras is his agent. Weiters probably going to be 10 million ish. And again they will both probably cost a pick which the sox dont seem to want to give up. Moreland could be some nice change. Also we thought the sox bullpen would be improved this year especially with jones coming back full time but ended up blowing 9 games sofar. Bullpens are fickle and you can not guarantee they will be better next year. Cant buy your logic. Also moreland has put up 58 rbis sofar. The combined dh for the sox has put up 76 rbi's this year sofar. Moreland i believe would be a downgrade

Edited September 14, 2016 by WhiteSoxLifer

[Y2Jimmy0]

I already laid it out in other threads but I will repeat again here. Here's the lineup that I believe is absolutely a contender. I have already stated that it will cost the White Sox an additional $15-20MM in payroll compared to this season but if JR is truly going for it then these are the types of moves required to make the next step. Projected lineup using their 2016 statistics:

 

1. Fowler CF (833 OPS, wRC+ 127)

2. Eaton RF (798 OPS, wRC+ 116)

3. Abreu 1B/DH (832 OPS, wRC+ 119)

4. Cabrera LF (780 OPS, wRC+ 107)

5. Frazier 3B (749 OPS, wRC+ 96)

6. Moreland DH/1B (763 OPS, wRC+ 97)

7. Wieters C (701 OPS, wRC+ 84)

8. Lawrie 2B (723 OPS, wRC+ 91) / Saladino 2B (731 OPS, wRC+ 93)

9. Anderson SS (729 OPS, wRC+ 92)

 

You have 1 very good hitter, 2 good hitters, 1 slightly above average hitter, 2 average hitters, 2 slightly below average hitters, and 1 below average hitter. I see no reason why that is anything less than a league average offense. Combine that with 4 starters carrying an ERA under 4, including 2 guys just over 3, and all you need from the #5 starter is a mid to upper 4 ERA rather than the close to 8 they have gotten this season. I also expect a bullpen of Robertson, Jennings, Jones, Putnam, Petricka, Burdi, and ? via trade or FA to be improved from this season.

 

Giving up a top 12-15 draft pick to sign Dexter Fowler doesn't make any sense.

 

[Thad Bosley]

1. DH Harold Baines was not the best player on the 1989 roster. That would be HOF catcher Carlton Fisk.

2. What you are talking about isn't just trading Chris Sale. If you are trading Chris Sale, you are also trading 3 or 4 of Todd Frazier, Melky Cabrera, David Robertson, Adam Eaton, Jose Quintana, and Jose Abreu. To equate that to 1989, they would be also trading Carlton Fisk, Bobby Thigpen, and Ozzie Guillen in addition to Harold Baines. Unless I am wrong and you are only in favor of moving Chris Sale and no other veterans this offseason?

DH Harold Baines was leading the AL in hitting at the All-Star break shortly before he was traded to the Rangers that season, and was the Sox' only All Star representative that year. So up until he was traded, he was, in fact, the Sox' best player in 1989.

[ChiSox59]

Again fowler is not a guarantee free agent. How do you get 15-20 million. Fowler if becomes availabile would be about 10-15 by himself a year. Hes getting 8 now and would be 9 if he stays. Since hes upped his value and if he did become a free agent hes getting a nice chunk especially since boras is his agent. Weiters probably going to be 10 million ish. And again they will both probably cost a pick which the sox dont seem to want to give up. Moreland could be some nice change. Also we thought the sox bullpen would be improved this year especially with jones coming back full time but ended up blowing 9 games sofar. Bullpens are fickle and you can not guarantee they will be better next year. Cant buy your logic.

 

Fowler also reportedly turned down more $ from the Sox and took less with the Cubs last year. I don't think he's a realistic option at anything short of $15M+ AAV for 3-4 years.

[Whisox05]

Fowler also reportedly turned down more $ from the Sox and took less with the Cubs last year. I don't think he's a realistic option at anything short of $15M+ AAV for 3-4 years.

 

Plus a draft pick.

[Leonard Zelig]

DH Harold Baines was leading the AL in hitting at the All-Star break shortly before he was traded to the Rangers that season, and was the Sox' only All Star representative that year. So up until he was traded, he was, in fact, the Sox' best player in 1989.

 

You are using an All-Star game selection to prove that your point is a fact?

[Thad Bosley]

You are using an All-Star game selection to prove that your point is a fact?

Well no, it's a supporting statement to the fact the guy was actually leading the league in hitting at the All Star break. That and Fisk actually only played in 103 games that year, which I forgot to mention.

[Kyyle23]

Point well taken, and duly noted.

 

Just to clarify. You have an admin of a Sox fan board that takes every opportunity to rip and belittle Sox fans. Doesn't that strike you as odd? it's tiresome and annoying.

 

Shouldn't putting out fires effectively begin with squelching the source?

 

Putting out fires = telling people they cant voice their opinion? (and before anyone jumps on this statement, all three of you have MORE than voiced your own opinions and none of it has been "squelched")

 

He hasnt ripped or belittled anything, merely pointed out that Sox fans simply dont show up when they need to. Its an unfortunate truth

[harfman77]

Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success?

 

The Phillies last year?

[Kyyle23]

The Phillies last year?

 

Who was their ace?

 

and if instant more success is instead of going 63-99 then jumping to possibly winning 70-72 games(currently at 64-81), then i guess the white sox are on this "instant more success" track

[ChiSox59]

Who was their ace?

 

and if instant more success is instead of going 63-99 then jumping to possibly winning 70-72 games(currently at 64-81), then i guess the white sox are on this "instant more success" track

 

The Phillies did pretty well in that trade. Jared Eickhoff is already a mid-rotation arm. Jake Thompson, while he struggled this year in majors, has the chance to be a top of the rotiation arm. Two top 100 prospects, one of which is catcher, plus another arm. Not a bad deal for the Phillies.

[Kyyle23]

The Phillies did pretty well in that trade. Jared Eickhoff is already a mid-rotation arm. Jake Thompson, while he struggled this year in majors, has the chance to be a top of the rotiation arm. Two top 100 prospects, one of which is catcher, plus another arm. Not a bad deal for the Phillies.

 

None of this is really instant success though. Nothing has changed for the Phillies much, they are still a bad team but are on pace for a few more wins. they certainly look like they won the trade, but it isnt instant success, which is what the question asked about.

[Hatchetman]

Didn't they retire Baines' number the same damn year or something? He was Mr. White Sox.

[Thad Bosley]

Didn't they retire Baines' number the same damn year or something? He was Mr. White Sox.

Yes, shortly after Baines was traded in '89 they retired his number, which was a bit strange at the time because not only was he still an active player, but at that point in his career he hadn't done nearly enough to warrant having his number retired. Then of course they unretired the number when he came back in '96, and then re-retired it after he finally hung 'em up in '01. The bouncing ball of retired numbers, you might say!

[Lip Man 1]

Yes, shortly after Baines was traded in '89 they retired his number, which was a bit strange at the time because not only was he still an active player, but at that point in his career he hadn't done nearly enough to warrant having his number retired. Then of course they unretired the number when he came back in '96, and then re-retired it after he finally hung 'em up in '01. The bouncing ball of retired numbers, you might say!

 

August 20, 1989 - After Sox star Harold Baines was traded to Texas on July 29, the team retired his uniform number #3 when the Rangers came to Chicago. He was only the third active player to have his uniform number retired by a club, joining Frank Robinson and Phil Niekro.

 

Mark

[captain54]

merely pointed out that Sox fans simply dont show up when they need to. Its an unfortunate truth

 

Right there.. is s far reaching of a generalization as can possibly be imagined... Some of us have been Sox fans for nearly a half century, and have shown up year after year, despite all kinds of BS.....we're talking SoxFests, Sox training camps, charity events..etc... So please spare me

 

Who are you or anyone to dictate whether fans should or shouldn't show up at games? Who anointed you the author of "Proper Sox Fandom.. a guide for the proper fan?"

[Kyyle23]

Look, I applaud you for being a good fan and showing up as much as you can. Let me know when the sox are in the bottom 10 of attendance consistently. This isn't an attack on you, this is just pointing out that Sox fans don't show up and pack the park regularly. Nobody annointed me anything, I'm not generalizing anything. I'm sorry that you get butt hurt every time someone insinuates that Sox fans don't show up and pack the park, but they don't. So you, you can also spare me.

[soxforlife05]

Point well taken, and duly noted.

 

Just to clarify. You have an admin of a Sox fan board that takes every opportunity to rip and belittle Sox fans. Doesn't that strike you as odd? it's tiresome and annoying.

 

Shouldn't putting out fires effectively begin with squelching the source?

 

As I noted in the warning thread previously stickied, baiting is allowed but personal attacks are not. So you have certain admins baiting people left and right they don't agree with to try to get them banned.

Edited September 14, 2016 by soxforlife05

[Kyyle23]

As I noted in the warning thread previously stickied, baiting is allowed but personal attacks are not. So you have certain admins baiting people left and right they don't agree with to try to get them banned.

 

Please give a list of those banned in this practice

[Thad Bosley]

Please give a list of those banned in this practice

Well, what about that Marty guy? Whatever happened to him? Where'd he go? Here one minute all over the place, then POOF - gone! Completely out of sight! You got him chained up somewhere down in the Soxtalk dungeon? If so, release the prisoner, immediately!!

 

[Kyyle23]

Well, what about that Marty guy? Whatever happened to him? Where'd he go? Here one minute all over the place, then POOF - gone! Completely out of sight! You got him chained up somewhere down in the Soxtalk dungeon? If so, release the prisoner, immediately!!

 

 

Marty was suspended for a few months and then the suspension was lifted. He was allowed to come back but chose not to and asked us to delete his account. Got anything else for me thad?

[Sleepy Harold]

How about we get back to discussing baseball? Sounds good to anyone else? I love seeing when there's new posts but hate when I have to shuffle through posters just bantering with one another back and forth that they are right and the other is wrong (although the banter may have started on the topic, recently none of it has been ending there, just saying).

[Kyyle23]

How about we get back to discussing baseball? Sounds good to anyone else? I love seeing when there's new posts but hate when I have to shuffle through posters just bantering with one another back and forth that they are right and the other is wrong (although the banter may have started on the topic, recently none of it has been ending there, just saying).

 

Agreed. Sorry I continued it after I asked that it would be stopped