Chris Sale scratched from start

[ptatc]

This whole thing is comical. If he didn't want to wear it, why not just cut up his own jersey and his alone?

 

If he did cut up other jerseys, other than his own, it begs the question, where was everyone else when this happened? You're telling me there wasn't a single other player in the clubhouse when this happened? Seems silly that other guys were in there and just let that happen. If there were other guys on the team there, it should have ended with cutting his own jersey. End of story.

 

This team sorely needs a real leader to stop things like this from happening in the first place.

Starting pitchers are usually in the clubhouse earlier than most of the other players. Besides if he started freaking out and attacking the jersey's with a knife, would you get in the way?

[Dick Allen]

It's funny now it's Robin letting him run amuck. It was only a couple of years ago people were afraid Robin would run him away for having a yelling argument with him.

 

Like was said, it doesn't matter who the manager is Sale is the one at fault. What he did was nuts. If someone gave me 100,000 guesses I would never have guessed that. That said, suspending him was going overboard on the other side of the boat.

 

Keep in mind, with Sale, you are going to have to live with some of this. Part of success is the fire that burns inside. He has these incidents, but other than that there is nothing out there that says he's a bad teammate or a bad guy. He does something like this, you shrug your shoulders and move on. Something else will happen at some point, whether he's playing for the White Sox and Robin Ventura, or the Yankees and Joe Girardi, or the Cubs and Joe Maddon, or Boston and John Ferrell. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good and deal with it. Yes, this particular incident was about as ridiculous as could be, but he didn't beat a woman. He didn't drive drunk. He didn't take PEDs, he didn't fight a teammate. The reality is, those are all far worse.

[Iwritecode]

If your boss tells you to wear something to work, you wear it. Period.

 

OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish.

[flavum]

In before lock.

[Dick Allen]

OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish.

Wouldn't that be letting a player walk all over you?

 

What would be interesting is to see how the uniform fit Sale. They were ridiculous last year. If they were the same, and he being about as skinny as they come, I could see where it could be a problem. But altering a rotation because of uniform selection isn't going to score you points with the rest of the team.

[ptatc]

OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish.

It would be interesting to know the discussions prior to that day. We'll never know of course but it would be interesting. We know that Sale had said that he didn't want to wear those jerseys on his day. We also know that management stuck to the promotional day activities. What we don't know is if he was offered or even asked for a switch of pitching days. This seems to be the only solution that would have worked.

 

Regardless, the response by sale was inexcusable and deserved the punishment.

[captain54]

This is where the focus should be. Not only did he cost us a start, but he destroyed our bullpen for the time being, which have seen ripple across the last two days of forcing the pen into a really bad situation and forcing guys to be unavailable to do their normal jobs. If Chris Sale doesn't get that you wear the promotional jersey on a promotional day, I'm not sure what else there really is to explain to the guy. This should be about the most obvious thing ever. If your boss tells you to wear something to work, you wear it. Period.

 

You, me, or anyone else on this board was not there.. We don't know the whole story, so in turn, no one is qualified to judge….

 

So...Before people start playing judge, jury and executioner… consider that there could have been many, many issues that led up to this…

 

Consider this… Sale's complaint was that the jersey affects his performance.. could it have been possible that it was agreed upon beforehand

that if his start coincided with the promotion, that he would have't to wear the damn thing? or maybe wear a custom altered version of it?

 

Could it have been possible that shortly before Chris was supposed to dress, there was reversal by management and they told him he to wear

the damn throwback as is and STFU?

 

Agreed. .. bad reaction on his part.. but I wouldn't discount terrible communication from both ends….

[soulfly]

Starting pitchers are usually in the clubhouse earlier than most of the other players. Besides if he started freaking out and attacking the jersey's with a knife, would you get in the way?

 

I get that they would be in earlier, but I'd have to imagine someone was there when it happened.

 

Unless I knew the guy personally hated me, yea, I'd say something if I was in the clubhouse when something like that happened. I'm sure everyone has seen people freak out at inanimate objects before. They usually don't turn and attack the person next to them too. He isn't going to stab his friend over a jersey, I'd hope. If he's that much of a headcase and the other guys in the locker room also think so, then they should ship him out before the deadline.

[iamshack]

It's funny now it's Robin letting him run amuck. It was only a couple of years ago people were afraid Robin would run him away for having a yelling argument with him.

 

Like was said, it doesn't matter who the manager is Sale is the one at fault. What he did was nuts. If someone gave me 100,000 guesses I would never have guessed that. That said, suspending him was going overboard on the other side of the boat.

 

Keep in mind, with Sale, you are going to have to live with some of this. Part of success is the fire that burns inside. He has these incidents, but other than that there is nothing out there that says he's a bad teammate or a bad guy. He does something like this, you shrug your shoulders and move on. Something else will happen at some point, whether he's playing for the White Sox and Robin Ventura, or the Yankees and Joe Girardi, or the Cubs and Joe Maddon, or Boston and John Ferrell. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good and deal with it. Yes, this particular incident was about as ridiculous as could be, but he didn't beat a woman. He didn't drive drunk. He didn't take PEDs, he didn't fight a teammate. The reality is, those are all far worse.

Every one of your goddamned posts is this "I told you so" bulls***.

 

You have a lot of knowledge, and you're a smart guy...how about you post something original instead of always trying to make others look stupid?

[bmags]

If he threw a temper tantrum that's one thing, but he brought out a knife and destroyed company property.

 

Any time there is any disagreement on what he or the players should do, his responses are so over the top and ridiculous, not following any degree of established pipeline of communication.

 

He could go to his player rep to handle this issue, or his agent, or to hahn in a closed door meeting. But any bit of friction requires immediately causing a scene. It doesn't matter even if he has a point. These actions are so disrespectful to the many employees working to put this team together. He needds to grow up

[southsider2k5]

However - if you've got 4 incidents in only 2 years time, you've made a strong case to try something different, because clearly what is being tried right now is failing to deal with the problem and instead seemingly allowing it to get worse.

 

They obviously tried Sale's method of keeping it quiet and in the clubhouse before now, because the only thing we knew about was the LaRoche blow up.

 

They seem to be trying something different now with the suspension.

[southsider2k5]

OR you could be a decent boss and listen to arguably your best and most valuable employee's grievances and make plans to avoid a conflict. There are 4 other people who could've and likely should've been on the mound pitching that day. Considering it was only about a week after the AS break, it would've been really easy to accomplish.

 

That is almost as silly. The Sox should have had to juggle their starting rotation because Chris Sale didn't like a jersey? Yeah, no. Wear the jersey dude.

[Balta1701]

They obviously tried Sale's method of keeping it quiet and in the clubhouse before now, because the only thing we knew about was the LaRoche blow up.

 

They seem to be trying something different now with the suspension.

Well, considering team property was actually destroyed it also seems like this incident was by far more deserving of a suspension than any previous one, so at least "is he getting worse with this" is now a concern also.

[southsider2k5]

You, me, or anyone else on this board was not there.. We don't know the whole story, so in turn, no one is qualified to judge….

 

So...Before people start playing judge, jury and executioner… consider that there could have been many, many issues that led up to this…

 

Consider this… Sale's complaint was that the jersey affects his performance.. could it have been possible that it was agreed upon beforehand

that if his start coincided with the promotion, that he would have't to wear the damn thing? or maybe wear a custom altered version of it?

 

Could it have been possible that shortly before Chris was supposed to dress, there was reversal by management and they told him he to wear

the damn throwback as is and STFU?

 

Agreed. .. bad reaction on his part.. but I wouldn't discount terrible communication from both ends….

 

lol, there are an awful lot of assumptions here for someone who is talking about knowing the whole story.

 

Nothing, and let me say it again, NOTHING, has been said that even remotely supports the idea that the Sox reversed course on this. Considering that Sale has thrown both Kenny Williams AND Robin Ventura under the bus at different points this year, you don't think he would have mentioned this pertinent fact while complaining about the rest of the incident? Not a chance.

 

If you really need the full proof an account of all of this before you are allowed to have thoughts on the subject, it would make sense if you weren't adding ideas that have zero proof at all to the discussion.

[Iwritecode]

Wouldn't that be letting a player walk all over you?

 

What would be interesting is to see how the uniform fit Sale. They were ridiculous last year. If they were the same, and he being about as skinny as they come, I could see where it could be a problem. But altering a rotation because of uniform selection isn't going to score you points with the rest of the team.

 

Not really. It would've been a simple request that could've been easily accommodated. Unless there were some other reasons where a certain pitcher HAD to pitch on a certain day after the AS break. Of course we'll never know.

[Iwritecode]

It would be interesting to know the discussions prior to that day. We'll never know of course but it would be interesting. We know that Sale had said that he didn't want to wear those jerseys on his day. We also know that management stuck to the promotional day activities. What we don't know is if he was offered or even asked for a switch of pitching days. This seems to be the only solution that would have worked.

 

Regardless, the response by sale was inexcusable and deserved the punishment.

 

Agreed.

[ptatc]

Not really. It would've been a simple request that could've been easily accommodated. Unless there were some other reasons where a certain pitcher HAD to pitch on a certain day after the AS break. Of course we'll never know.

Exactly. It could be Sale not wanting to look bad for the fans and teammates by refusing to pitch on that day. But if he went to the front office and said he was "sick" they could postpone it. Or he could have proposed that and the management said, no. That would one reason he did not want to move the day.

[Iwritecode]

That is almost as silly. The Sox should have had to juggle their starting rotation because Chris Sale didn't like a jersey? Yeah, no. Wear the jersey dude.

 

Juggle the rotation? It was completely reset after the break. It would've been as simple as switching Sale and Q's first starts after the break and this entire situation would've never even come up.

[southsider2k5]

Juggle the rotation? It was completely reset after the break. It would've been as simple as switching Sale and Q's first starts after the break and this entire situation would've never even come up.

 

Yes. If they had set it already, and guys had already adjusted their workout routines (such as when they throw on the side, etc) around it, yes that effects all of the starters who would have had to have moved because Sale didn't like the jersey.

[greg775]

It doesn't really matter. A 20 something year old man shouldn't act like that. There is nothing management should need to do to keep someone from acting like this. It is on him and him alone. He can be mad about it but no one should ever act like this.

You're a very smart guy and successful professional and I've noticed you have strong feelings about this. In the final analysis you are probably right. I have taken the side of Sale on this, assuming he didn't wield the knife near any other human being, just ripped up the uniforms.

I will say if Sale had just torn up his uniform and refused to pitch, that would have been more effective. He would have had the hammer of public opinion on his side: "Cy Young candidate doesn't feel comfortable in collared throwback jersey, does not want to risk health of his arm and performance, refused to pitch.' That would have really embarrassed the Sox.

 

Sale should have thought this through. Just destroying his own uniform or throwing it in the trash without a knife incident would have made him a hero. Hey no billion dollar pitcher should risk his arm health if he's not motivated to pitch that day.

 

I guess you are right in whipping out a knife like a madman by the letter of employment law might warrant a suspension. I wish Sale had done it the other way though to embarrass the White Sox. I really feel it is a horrible organizaion.

[southsider2k5]

You're a very smart guy and successful professional and I've noticed you have strong feelings about this. In the final analysis you are probably right. I have taken the side of Sale on this, assuming he didn't wield the knife near any other human being, just ripped up the uniforms.

I will say if Sale had just torn up his uniform and refused to pitch, that would have been more effective. He would have had the hammer of public opinion on his side: "Cy Young candidate doesn't feel comfortable in collared throwback jersey, does not want to risk health of his arm and performance, refused to pitch.' That would have really embarrassed the Sox.

 

Sale should have thought this through. Just destroying his own uniform or throwing it in the trash without a knife incident would have made him a hero. Hey no billion dollar pitcher should risk his arm health if he's not motivated to pitch that day.

 

I guess you are right in whipping out a knife like a madman by the letter of employment law might warrant a suspension. I wish Sale had done it the other way though to embarrass the White Sox. I really feel it is a horrible organizaion.

 

 

 

 

[ptatc]

Juggle the rotation? It was completely reset after the break. It would've been as simple as switching Sale and Q's first starts after the break and this entire situation would've never even come up.

Again, we don't know if Sale even knew about pitching on the jersey day at that time. I wouldn't think he would have looked that far ahead to see the promotional day. this seems more like couple of days before he pitched, he told the team what jersey he wanted and the clubhouse guy said he couldn't have that due to the promotion.

 

It's possible he knew earlier but I doubt it.

[Iwritecode]

Yes. If they had set it already, and guys had already adjusted their workout routines (such as when they throw on the side, etc) around it, yes that effects all of the starters who would have had to have moved because Sale didn't like the jersey.

 

They knew about his concerns in Spring training. I think that might have given them enough time to plan the rotation.

[ptatc]

You're a very smart guy and successful professional and I've noticed you have strong feelings about this. In the final analysis you are probably right. I have taken the side of Sale on this, assuming he didn't wield the knife near any other human being, just ripped up the uniforms.

I will say if Sale had just torn up his uniform and refused to pitch, that would have been more effective. He would have had the hammer of public opinion on his side: "Cy Young candidate doesn't feel comfortable in collared throwback jersey, does not want to risk health of his arm and performance, refused to pitch.' That would have really embarrassed the Sox.

 

Sale should have thought this through. Just destroying his own uniform or throwing it in the trash without a knife incident would have made him a hero. Hey no billion dollar pitcher should risk his arm health if he's not motivated to pitch that day.

 

I guess you are right in whipping out a knife like a madman by the letter of employment law might warrant a suspension. I wish Sale had done it the other way though to embarrass the White Sox. I really feel it is a horrible organizaion.

Health is not an issue.

[ptatc]

They knew about his concerns in Spring training. I think that might have given them enough time to plan the rotation.

I doubt they knew about his concern for this particular jersey in spring training.