Wise Master Buehrle Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 DH: Carl Everett (Good bat, lackluster defense) 1B: Paul Konerko (I'd keep him for one more year, see if is as streaky as he was this year) 2B: Robbie Alomar (The man) SS: Kazui Matsui ( ) 3B: Joe Crede RF: Magglio Ordonez CF: Aaron Rowand (He deserves this year, he's been patient, hopefully he doesn't slump as badly as he did last year) LF: Carlos Lee Pitchers 1: Esteban Loaiza 2: Bartolo Colon 3: Mark Buerhle 4: Jon Garland 5: Danny Wright (?) Relief - Scott Schoeneweis - Scott Sullivan - Tom Gordon - Damaso Marte - Latroy Hawkins - Billy Koch - Kelly Wunsch Bench - Tony Graffanino - Willie Harris - Bunch of question marks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 DH: Carl Everett (Good bat, lackluster defense) 1B: Paul Konerko (I'd keep him for one more year, see if is as streaky as he was this year) 2B: Robbie Alomar (The man) SS: Kazui Matsui ( ) 3B: Joe Crede RF: Magglio Ordonez CF: Aaron Rowand (He deserves this year, he's been patient, hopefully he doesn't slump as badly as he did last year) LF: Carlos Lee Pitchers 1: Esteban Loaiza 2: Bartolo Colon 3: Mark Buerhle 4: Jon Garland 5: Danny Wright (?) Relief - Scott Schoeneweis - Scott Sullivan - Tom Gordon - Damaso Marte - Latroy Hawkins - Billy Koch - Kelly Wunsch Bench - Tony Graffanino - Willie Harris - Bunch of question marks Is this taking into account financial considerations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 he did say "fantasy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 he did say "fantasy" Oops, didn't mean to quote his post. I was just asking for our fantasy teams if we were supposed to take into account finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Well, for what its worth here is my fantasy team while still being realistic: DH Carl Everett 1B Frank Thomas 2B Roberto Alomar SS Kaz Matsui 3B Joe Crede LF Carlos Lee CF Jacque Jones RF Magglio Ordonez C Miguel Olivo Starters: 1. Bartolo Colon 2. Mark Buehrle 3. Sidney Ponson 4. Jon Garland 5. Esteban Loaiza Bullpen: Damaso Marte Tom Gordon Scott Sullivan Kelly Wunsch Scott Schoenweiss Shigetoshi Hasegawa Bench: Aaron Rowand Willie Harris Tony Graffanino Michael Rivera Aaron Miles Manager: Someone who knows what they're doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 C - Olivo 1B - Thomas 2B - Alomar SS - Luis Castillo(yes, I realize he's a 2B, but I think he could very easily play SS....doesn't have a great arm, but does have great range) 3B - Crede LF - Shannon Stewart CF - Rowand RF - Guerrero DH - Everett (Obviously, in my scenario, we make some major trades....those include trading Maggs, Konerko, and Lee) A rotation of Colon, Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, and Burkett, Suppan, or Wright...someone cheaper. Bullpen of Gordon, Marte, Sullivan, Hawkins, Wunsch, and Diaz(Koch and Schoe are traded as well) Bench of Daubach, Graffy, Alomar, Valentin, and Harris If I count right, that is a team whose salary is like just under $70 mill. That can be done, or so I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 C - Javy Lopez 1B - Frank Thomas 2B - Luis Castillo 3B - Joe Crede SS - Christian Guzman LF - Carlos Lee CF - Jose Cruz Jr. RF - Jacque Jones DH - Carl Everett Rotation: Mark Buerhle, Sidney Ponson, Esteban Loaiza, Jon Garland, Scott Schoeneweiss Bullpen: Damaso Marte, Billy Koch, LaTroy Hawkins, Danny Wright, Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Scott Sullivan Bench: Tony Graffanino, Brian Daubach, Willie Harris, Aaron Miles, Aaron Rowand, Miguel Olivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I'm taking the blinders off on this & asking the question can I assemble a contender < 70MIL? I'm going to rely heavily on Sag ratings over past 3 yrs for value & performance. Colon: Sag ratings past 4 yrs (2003-2000): 10th, 16th, 22nd, 4th Avg: 13th value=top 13 E-LO: Sag ratings past 4 yrs (2003-2000): 5th, 66th, 35th, 32nd Avg: 34th value=top 34 Garland: Sag ratings past 4 yrs (2003-2000): 30, 32, 74, 93 Avg: 57th value=top 57 Buerhle: Sag ratings past 4 yrs (2003-2000): 20, 16, 5, 43 Avg: 21st value=top 21 We have no 5th starter so it's not worth appraising. Of interest, Halladay: Sag ratings past 4 yrs (2003-2000): 6, 4, 16, 109 4 yr Avg: 33rd 3 yr Avg: 9th value=top 10 It's more important for the SOX to secure a real 5th starter than any other move. Take a look at the numbers: SOX: 1-4: 48 wins in 128 starts or 37.5% 5: 4 wins in 26 starts or 15.4% MIN: 1-4: 45 wins in 113 starts or 39.8% 5: 21 wins in 41 starts or 51% KC: 1-4: 31 wins in 82 starts or 37.8% 5: about 27 wins in 71 starts or 38% There's no reason to look beyond the division. KW needs to secure a solid 5th starter. A 38% avg in the 5th spot is 6 more wins. 87 wins is leading the division right now. Think division first then Championship second. It's questionable what is to be gained by trying to grow a 5th starter any more. We've been growing Garland as a #3 for yrs, & he's never gotten past the top 30 yet now he's up for arbitration. We've been growing Wright in the same capacity & we just got lucky with Buerhle. Bottom line: The SOX need to fill Colon's shoes with no worse than a top 20 starter with a track record of winning near 50% of his starts year after year. The SOX need to fill the #3 spot with no worse than a top 30 starter with a track record of winning near 50% of his starts year after year. Rotation: 1-top 20 2-top 20 3-top 30 4-top 30 5-top 30 This should be the highest priority & is the formula to win this division. Now if there is a possibility of upgrading to top 10 for any of the top 20 spots or top 20 for any of the top 30 spots then you do so with a shot to win a championship. Otherwise you remain content with winning the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Rotation: Buehrle Loaiza Garland Cotts I do not want to see Colon back. Ship him back to Montreal/San Juan/Monterey/Portland or wherever the hell the Expos are playing next year. I would like to see Alomar and Everett stay. I think we need a SS....I think that and another starter are the biggest nees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Rotation: Buehrle Loaiza Garland Cotts I do not want to see Colon back. Ship him back to Montreal/San Juan/Monterey/Portland or wherever the hell the Expos are playing next year. I would like to see Alomar and Everett stay. I think we need a SS....I think that and another starter are the biggest nees. So you would prefer Cotts to Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Here is my team. It is realistic financial wise, but probably wont happen. DH Thomas - Is having a nice comeback year and will probably finish his career in a Sox uniform. I just wish he could get his average back in the .280+ range. C Olivo - I still think this guy is going to be a very good every day catcher. He has the athletism and talent he just needs to put it all together. He might have the best arm in the AL as well. Give him time to develop. 1B Gload - I would like to see Konerko traded, which I will explain later. He might be a career minor leaguer, but his career minor league average in the .330's and 63 extra base hits this year are hard to argue with. From what I have seen of him at the AAA AS game and with the Cubs he has a nice short compact swing and reminds me a lot of a young Olerod. The only thing I don't like is the fact that he only drew 29 walks in 504 AB's this year. 2B Alomar - He isn't the same player that he use to be, but there aren't many other options, especially with both Jimenez and Hummel being traded. I don't trust Harris's bat, Miles has career minor leaguer written all over him, and there aren't many cheap options on the FA market. I think Graffy should get all the starts against lefties with the way that Alomar struggles batting right handed. SS Guzman - His numbers aren't any better then Valentin's, but at 25 he has the potential and talent to be a very good SS in the majors. He will always bring solid D and it is a pretty safe bet that he will lead the league in triples. I think a 4 year 16M deal is possible and would make him about the same price as Valentin. 3B Crede - His solid 2nd half is reason for encouragement. Like I said a long time ago before he was even in AAA, I think he will be a Travis Fryman type of player. A guy who will quitely hit .270-.280/20/80 with solid D at 3rd, maybe even win a GG or 2 and make an AS team or 2. RF Maggs - While I think his days in Chitown might be numbered after his contract is up(thats why so many of this years draft picks were outfields), he is still one of the top RF in the game. CF Rowand - I have always been a big fan of his and I think he deserves another shot. I have a feeling that his injury this offseason affected his play, but since being called up he has looked very good with a short compact swing. He is also very solid defensively in the Erstad mold of hustle making up for a lack of natural speed. Give him 2 months and if he struggles then turn to Reed or Borchard, but I have a feeling he will be a solid .750 OPS guy with solid D in CF. LF Lee - He is finally starting to show his offensive potential. I only wish that he could put it all together with the plate disipline he showed last year. I think the Sox should resign him to 3/4 year deal worth 6/7M per year. His defense has also improved drasticly since his 1st days in LF. SP Buehrle - After a slow start he is back to the Buehrle of old. Unfortunately, like Maggs I think his days are numbered as well. He will be the ace next year. SP Loiaza - I think this year is a career year and that next year he will slide back to the low-mid 4's ERA, but you have to reward him for a such a great year and who knows maybe he has finally realized his potential. SP Garland - Excluding today's start he has really taken some big steps forward. I also love groundball pitchers. Its hard to imagine that he is only 23 and will probably get a little better as he gets older. SP Johnson(from Baltimore) - The Sox will need to find a realitively cheap bottom of the rotation starter and Johnson will be that guy. While I would love to keep Colon or sign a guy like Ponson or Pettite we have to be realistic. He is a pretty solid pitcher and has been on the trade market. SP Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Tofu - I think you give the 5th spot to a youngster and let him develop. I still think Rauch can be a solid middle of the rotation starter and deserves a shot. Diaz has always been a sleeper to me. He has very good stuff and has put up good numbers at every place he has pitched(including this year). He has injury and stamina questions, but I really think he could be a good major league pitcher. Pacheco has really come out of nowhere and had his 1st really good year in the minors, but from what I hear he has the stuff to pitch in the majors and might also be an option. Tofu had a very good year and will probably be in the majors at some point next year. Cotts needs at least another half season in the minors to improve his control. Also keep an eye on Malone by the AS break. In his last couple of starts coming back from his injury he was very impressive and he has the potential if he can put it all together. CP Gordon - I think it is very important to resign him. LH Marte - Might be the best lefty reliever in the game. LH Wunsch - Very effective against the lefties. LH Shoey - I am not a huge fan of his, but he will be back. He might get a shot at the 5th spot in the rotation as well. RH Koch - Not by choice. I wish they could trade him and/or didn't sign him to an extension. Hopefully he can find his velocity and have a nice comeback year. RH Ginter - I have always been a big fan of his and think he should be in the majors. RH Wright - I really think he could be a good set up reliever, possible turn into a poor mans Gagne. Bench 1B/DH Daubach - I think you keep him as a back up plan if Gload doesn't work out. He is cheap and pretty solid. 2B/SS/3B Graffy - He will platoon with Alomar and get some spot starts at SS and 3B. If only he was a better defensive player he could be a starter. CF/2B Harris - He is the speed and defensive replacement off the bench. C Rivera - I really think the Sox got a steal in this kid. A pretty highly thought of catcher in the Tiger's system he has put up some pretty impressive numbers in the minors and could be a solid back up plan for Olivo. Gone: Colon, Everett, Konerko, Sullivan, Valentin New: Guzman, Johnson, Gload(from minors), Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Yofu(from minors), Ginter(from minors), Rivera(from minors) Trade: Konerko to Baltimore for Jason Johnson - The O's have the money and the need for some offense and Johnson's name has been on the market for a while. Konerko makes a little more then Johnson so it saves the Sox some money and gives them a decent bottom of the rotation pitcher. It also gets rid of Konerko's one-dimensional slump prone bat. Financial I think this is a team that the Sox could field. It doesn't have the raw talent of this years team, but talent can only take you so far as seen with this years team. This is a team that is good enough to win a weak Central division(the Twins will probably be cutting payroll as well) while cutting some payroll. ps sorry about the length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Here is my team. It is realistic financial wise, but probably wont happen. DH Thomas - Is having a nice comeback year and will probably finish his career in a Sox uniform. I just wish he could get his average back in the .280+ range. C Olivo - I still think this guy is going to be a very good every day catcher. He has the athletism and talent he just needs to put it all together. He might have the best arm in the AL as well. Give him time to develop. 1B Gload - I would like to see Konerko traded, which I will explain later. He might be a career minor leaguer, but his career minor league average in the .330's and 63 extra base hits this year are hard to argue with. From what I have seen of him at the AAA AS game and with the Cubs he has a nice short compact swing and reminds me a lot of a young Olerod. The only thing I don't like is the fact that he only drew 29 walks in 504 AB's this year. 2B Alomar - He isn't the same player that he use to be, but there aren't many other options, especially with both Jimenez and Hummel being traded. I don't trust Harris's bat, Miles has career minor leaguer written all over him, and there aren't many cheap options on the FA market. I think Graffy should get all the starts against lefties with the way that Alomar struggles batting right handed. SS Guzman - His numbers aren't any better then Valentin's, but at 25 he has the potential and talent to be a very good SS in the majors. He will always bring solid D and it is a pretty safe bet that he will lead the league in triples. I think a 4 year 16M deal is possible and would make him about the same price as Valentin. 3B Crede - His solid 2nd half is reason for encouragement. Like I said a long time ago before he was even in AAA, I think he will be a Travis Fryman type of player. A guy who will quitely hit .270-.280/20/80 with solid D at 3rd, maybe even win a GG or 2 and make an AS team or 2. RF Maggs - While I think his days in Chitown might be numbered after his contract is up(thats why so many of this years draft picks were outfields), he is still one of the top RF in the game. CF Rowand - I have always been a big fan of his and I think he deserves another shot. I have a feeling that his injury this offseason affected his play, but since being called up he has looked very good with a short compact swing. He is also very solid defensively in the Erstad mold of hustle making up for a lack of natural speed. Give him 2 months and if he struggles then turn to Reed or Borchard, but I have a feeling he will be a solid .750 OPS guy with solid D in CF. LF Lee - He is finally starting to show his offensive potential. I only wish that he could put it all together with the plate disipline he showed last year. I think the Sox should resign him to 3/4 year deal worth 6/7M per year. His defense has also improved drasticly since his 1st days in LF. SP Buehrle - After a slow start he is back to the Buehrle of old. Unfortunately, like Maggs I think his days are numbered as well. He will be the ace next year. SP Loiaza - I think this year is a career year and that next year he will slide back to the low-mid 4's ERA, but you have to reward him for a such a great year and who knows maybe he has finally realized his potential. SP Garland - Excluding today's start he has really taken some big steps forward. I also love groundball pitchers. Its hard to imagine that he is only 23 and will probably get a little better as he gets older. SP Johnson(from Baltimore) - The Sox will need to find a realitively cheap bottom of the rotation starter and Johnson will be that guy. While I would love to keep Colon or sign a guy like Ponson or Pettite we have to be realistic. He is a pretty solid pitcher and has been on the trade market. SP Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Tofu - I think you give the 5th spot to a youngster and let him develop. I still think Rauch can be a solid middle of the rotation starter and deserves a shot. Diaz has always been a sleeper to me. He has very good stuff and has put up good numbers at every place he has pitched(including this year). He has injury and stamina questions, but I really think he could be a good major league pitcher. Pacheco has really come out of nowhere and had his 1st really good year in the minors, but from what I hear he has the stuff to pitch in the majors and might also be an option. Tofu had a very good year and will probably be in the majors at some point next year. Cotts needs at least another half season in the minors to improve his control. Also keep an eye on Malone by the AS break. In his last couple of starts coming back from his injury he was very impressive and he has the potential if he can put it all together. CP Gordon - I think it is very important to resign him. LH Marte - Might be the best lefty reliever in the game. LH Wunsch - Very effective against the lefties. LH Shoey - I am not a huge fan of his, but he will be back. He might get a shot at the 5th spot in the rotation as well. RH Koch - Not by choice. I wish they could trade him and/or didn't sign him to an extension. Hopefully he can find his velocity and have a nice comeback year. RH Ginter - I have always been a big fan of his and think he should be in the majors. RH Wright - I really think he could be a good set up reliever, possible turn into a poor mans Gagne. Bench 1B/DH Daubach - I think you keep him as a back up plan if Gload doesn't work out. He is cheap and pretty solid. 2B/SS/3B Graffy - He will platoon with Alomar and get some spot starts at SS and 3B. If only he was a better defensive player he could be a starter. CF/2B Harris - He is the speed and defensive replacement off the bench. C Rivera - I really think the Sox got a steal in this kid. A pretty highly thought of catcher in the Tiger's system he has put up some pretty impressive numbers in the minors and could be a solid back up plan for Olivo. Gone: Colon, Everett, Konerko, Sullivan, Valentin New: Guzman, Johnson, Gload(from minors), Rauch/Diaz/Pacheco/Yofu(from minors), Ginter(from minors), Rivera(from minors) Trade: Konerko to Baltimore for Jason Johnson - The O's have the money and the need for some offense and Johnson's name has been on the market for a while. Konerko makes a little more then Johnson so it saves the Sox some money and gives them a decent bottom of the rotation pitcher. It also gets rid of Konerko's one-dimensional slump prone bat. Financial I think this is a team that the Sox could field. It doesn't have the raw talent of this years team, but talent can only take you so far as seen with this years team. This is a team that is good enough to win a weak Central division(the Twins will probably be cutting payroll as well) while cutting some payroll. ps sorry about the length Seems like your in the mood to cut alot of money. If we lose that many high priced players, we will sign an impact player. Guzman really isn't a huge impact player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I am just being reallistic. Reports are that the Sox are going to cut payroll to around the 60M mark. That means that Colon and Everett area all but gone. You have to also remember that some players like Maggs, Lee, Loiaza for example get raises either due to the structure of there contracts, arbitration, or extensions respectively. The team I list will probably cost about 60M. Mark my words the Sox won't be big players on the FA market this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I talked to Daubach at today's game and he sounded REALLY disgusted about not playing.... I was sitting right next to the Lee, Rowand, and Daubach line were they were signing...Daubach was the first one out to sign while Carlos was 10 minutes late...People weren't even asking Daubach to sign..Daubach said that this ain't his kind of town and would love to be back with the other Sox team... He said he can't wait to go back to his 20 homer days and finally get off the bench...He sounded really depressed. I wonder if he went up to Manuel some time and complained or something; because when Manuel put all the subs in Daubach wasn't even in. Manuel should of pinch hit him for Frank at least..He was the only sub on the bench not play (except for the regulars..Alomars)... He said pinch hitting is real tough to handle and something he never has done... Here's to Brian and hopes he can find his swing next year on a different team.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I talked to Daubach at today's game and he sounded REALLY disgusted about not playing.... I was sitting right next to the Lee, Rowand, and Daubach line were they were signing...Daubach was the first one out to sign while Carlos was 10 minutes late...People weren't even asking Daubach to sign..Daubach said that this ain't his kind of town and would love to be back with the other Sox team... He said he can't wait to go back to his 20 homer days and finally get off the bench...He sounded really depressed. I wonder if he went up to Manuel some time and complained or something; because when Manuel put all the subs in Daubach wasn't even in. Manuel should of pinch hit him for Frank at least..He was the only sub on the bench not play (except for the regulars..Alomars)... He said pinch hitting is real tough to handle and something he never has done... Here's to Brian and hopes he can find his swing next year on a different team.. Ya can't help but feel bad for the guy. It didn't help that when he did play, he struggled. I hope he goes back to Boston and prospers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Ya can't help but feel bad for the guy. It didn't help that when he did play, he struggled. I hope he goes back to Boston and prospers. I don't know, I've never met the guy personally and I don't feel sorry for professional athletes making millions of dollars under most circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I mean the guy's a great guy regardless of how much money he makes.. The guy had the numbers to play this year... Konerko was struggling and Dauber hardly ever played.. He had 20 homer seasons and like 70+ rbis for 4 seasons. Manuel should of played this guy and find some PT for this guy. He can play 1st, he plays some corner outfield (i know he's not a gold glove), he can Dh, and even heard he can catch some. Real nice guy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I mean the guy's a great guy regardless of how much money he makes.. The guy had the numbers to play this year... Konerko was struggling and Dauber hardly ever played.. He had 20 homer seasons and like 70+ rbis for 4 seasons. Manuel should of played this guy and find some PT for this guy. He can play 1st, he plays some corner outfield (i know he's not a gold glove), he can Dh, and even heard he can catch some. Real nice guy.. If he could catch, why didn't we get him in there. That would have got his lefty bat in lineup, and he would have got more playtime. I saw LeCroy catch vs the Tigs yest, he isn't exactly what you would think of a catcher. We should have tried it once, atleast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I mean the guy's a great guy regardless of how much money he makes.. The guy had the numbers to play this year... Konerko was struggling and Dauber hardly ever played.. He had 20 homer seasons and like 70+ rbis for 4 seasons. Manuel should of played this guy and find some PT for this guy. He can play 1st, he plays some corner outfield (i know he's not a gold glove), he can Dh, and even heard he can catch some. Real nice guy.. I didn't say he wasn't a nice guy I just said I don't feel sorry for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Priorities in winning: 1-5 rotation: I covered this already. All 5 need to avg in top 20 or top 30. Lineup: MIN 15,24,32,36,41,64,75,83 KCR 11,38,40,45,49,71,74 SOX 8,10,20,31,60,68,73 There's are the rankings of the players who take the most AB's for the 3 teams. 478+ appearances. Avg: MIN: 46.3 KCR: 46.9 SOX: 38.6 Median: MIN: 38.5 KCR:45 SOX:31 Now this is interesting, because it illustrates a point. How much is a top 10 lineup guy really worth? If you replace Maggs with a top 30 guy the median for the lineup remains the same. There's nothing that can be done with Frank. No one is going to trade for him or seek him as a FA. He's here to stay. Koney didn't even make 478 appearances. So both Maggs & Koney should be on the trade block. Carl is a perfect fit for the team. A top 20 player this year, & has ranked respectively over the last 4 yrs: 2 top 20 A finishes, 2 top 30 B finishes. His performance is not over the top to where you can't afford him, but it's good enough to keep him. When consider Lee vs Everett keep this in mind: Rankings: Carl : 20A, 32B, 34B, 19A CLee: 31A, 25A, 45A, 41A Carlos is very close to being a top 20 player. But right now his value is no more than top 30. Both of these guys when you consider durability & performance are top 30 value. If you can sign them for top 30 prices then do so. If you can only afford 1, sign Jurrasic. I think we can afford both: New core: 1-RAlomar 2-New guy 3-Frank 4-Jurrasic 5-CLee 6-new guy 7-new guy 8-new guy 9-SAlomar/Olivo Next lets look at the Alomars: RAlo - 73A, 58A, 4A, 26A SAlo - 49B, 65B ,86B, 55B Roberto Alomar is a top 50 player at best, & Sandy is a top 50 reserve at best. That's where the price should lie to re-sign them. I think that fits in the SOX budget, so I'm penciling them in. That leaves 4 new guys: I'm hoping Renteria in place of Maggs. Renteria - 15A, 32A, 72A, 54A : top 20 value Maggs - 8A ,6A, 11A, 23A : top 10 value - why we can't afford him & never will. Of course trading a top 10 for a top 20 is insane, so I would expect us to get some more. Likewise expect Koney to be pkg'd in the trade. Koney - 39B,16A,24A,31A top: 30 value JDrew - 7B, 19B, 1B, 14B top: 20 value There is at least top 20A potential in JDrew. So the trade is Maggs+Koney for Renteria+JDrew+an arm. 1-RAlomar (top 50) 2-Renteria (top 20) 3-Frank (top 20) 4-Jurrasic (top 20) 5-CLee (top 25) 6-JDrew (top 20) 7-Crede (top 50) 8-new guy (top 30) 9-SAlomar/Olivo (top 50B) What I figure is Jurrasic/Frank/new guy can spell time at DH. Frank/new guy can spell time at 1B. I'd like to get a top 30 guy at least. What's Crede's potential? rankings (03-00) 68A, B15, 97C, 62C. I'm going to put Crede in top 50A. Which means the new guy should be in top 30 at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Juggernaut, whats with the huge space between your posts and your sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Here is how I see it. First off, I think the guys we need back are Everett, Sullivan, Thomas, Gordon, Loaiza. Guys we should lose are Valentin, Koch, Daubach, Alomar, Alomar Jr., and Manuel. The Yankees will likely steal Colon. People I'd like to see the Sox after are Christian Guzman or Miguel Tejada. I'd like to see them try to sign Carlos Beltran, if they want to go for it all next year. But it'll cost them 12 million a year with Scott Boras as his agent... I see our team like this: Rotation Loaiza (still our best, no matter what) Buehrle Garland Pacheco?/Yofu?/Cotts?/Diaz? Schoeneweis (will get his shot at our rotation in 2004. Liked what I saw today.) Bullpen Wunsch Sullivan Marte Gordon (Full time closer?) Sanders (Lefty, could make an impact, some MLB experience) Wright (I'm praying he doesn't make the rotation) Lineup SS Christian Guzman (throw $15 for 2 or 3 years, he's worth it.) LF Carlos Lee 1B Frank Thomas (maybe a new manager would realize how much this helps Thomas) RF Magglio Ordonez CF Carl Everett (in a perfect world, Beltran. But atleast Everett is a competitor) DH Paul Konerko 3B Joe Crede 2B Aaron Miles C Miguel Olivo Bench C Mike Rivera C/IF Jaime Burke IF Tony Graffanino OF Willie Harris OF Aaron Rowand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Alomar, thats pretty realistic but we would have a very hard time winning anything with that rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Re-cap: Rotation: 1-top 20 = (Colon/New) 2-top 20 = Buerhle 3-top 30 = E-LO 4-top 30 = Garland 5-top 30 = new guy (no more F'g experiments) Lineup: 1-RAlomar/Vina (top 50) 2-Renteria (top 20) 3-Frank (top 20) 4-Jurrasic (top 20) 5-CLee (top 25) 6-JDrew (top 20) 7-Crede (top 50) 8-new guy (top 30) 9-SAlomar/Olivo (top 50B) If Vina is cheaper, go with Vina. Bullpen: Marte 1B,4B,42C, ml - top 10B: KW got real lucky here. Ride him as long as you can. Allow him to play Winter ball & AFL to tryout as a 5th starter. Give him a few spot starts in ST. If he succeeds I'd give him the 5th spot. He'd make an ideal 5th because, he could still be very useful in the BP during those times when there is no need for a 5th. Gordon B7,C46,C11. - top 20B The thing about Gordon is his durability. He's not getting any younger so I don't think his price will be as high as some think. You're talking about a guy who's logged B level innings once in 4 yrs since he was out completely in 00. I think we can afford him. Wunsch C4,C44,C50,B12 = top C10 Wunsch should be very cheap. His lack of innings but decent performance makes him a keeper. Koch B86, B15, B57, B16 - top B20 I don't think we'll be able to trade him, but there is at least a pattern of him bouncing back after a bad year. Wright B82, A34, B108 - top B50 I think we owe it to Danny to give him a BP spot. Schow B25, B55, A29, A27 - top A30, B30 Sully B23, B102, B35, B16 - top B30 If we can only afford 1 I go with Schow. He's proven his effectiveness both as a starter & a reliever. I think we can give Schow a chance for the 5th spot in ST. Here's how I would play it. Run the 5th spot like you did last year with E-LO. Take a failed starter with promise & let him battle for the spot vs Schow & possibly Marte. If he fails to win the 5th but pitches decently for the 1st couple of innings in each start, give him a shot at the BP. The bottom line is this: Bullpen: no less than top 10 top 20 top 20 top 50 top 20 top 30 Add Graff, Rowand, & Harris on the bench & we should be able to win it next year < 60MIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 JUGGERNAUT You've posted a lot of stuff.....but I have no idea what any of it means. 20A? 4B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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