The Possibility of the Curve Ball from the Sox...

[OmarComing25]

Which is why trading 1 of Sale or Quintana is optimal at this point. Keep an ace and fill the teams needs for young bats with one them.

With that said, no rush, pitching market is gonna suck for a while. Wait for the overpay, it will come.

I agree. A rebuild doesn't need to be a total teardown. If you can get someone to get desperate and overpay for Sale or Q, then you could potentially speed up the rebuild by a couple seasons and eliminate the need to sell off EVERYBODY (instead of 2020 you could look towards 2018). But that means we absolutely need to nail this trade.

[harfman77]

I agree. A rebuild doesn't need to be a total teardown. If you can get someone to get desperate and overpay for Sale or Q, then you could potentially speed up the rebuild by a couple seasons and eliminate the need to sell off EVERYBODY (instead of 2020 you could look towards 2018). But that means we absolutely need to nail this trade.

 

I think if you are going to rebuild though, anyone that isn't under contract after 2017 needs to be moved if you can find a deal for them. Fill in for them with AAA players for the time being and let the guys that you trade for come in and earn those spots.

[Dam8610]

If they're looking to add, they should be targeting Lucroy.

 

If they're looking to sell, they should be auctioning everyone off to the highest bidder and be Astros bad for a couple seasons and allow themselves to bust caps in the draft and July 2 signings to cultivate a lot of young talent to put together a long sustained run of success.

 

There isn't much gain to be had in doing nothing, but it seems the most likely course for White Sox brass to take.

[Flash Tizzle]

Just keep winning. Sale and Q are going nowhere, IMO. I think the Sox will stand pat, or maybe make a couple smaller moves. And I totally OK with that. Sale and Q's value are not decreasing anytime soon, and the Sox have a chance to be competitive in 2017 with a few small tweaks to the roster (not to mention the chance to stay in the race in 2016). Trade pieces off next July if it doesn't work. Very little roster turnover after this year...next year makes much more sense for a tear down.

Lol we'll never learn will we? People were saying the exact same thing last year! "We have Rodon, Q and Sale, plus Eaton and Abreu as our core. Just need some tweaking.. If it doesn't work then blow it up next season." I read this basic phrase all last year around the deadline.

 

I just don't understand how minor tweaking fixes this mess. Or, with a baron minor league system and weak FA class, how'd we would accomplish it. But I'm sure when we fail again next year we'll just fall for the same false hope come 2018

[ChiSox59]

Lol we'll never learn will we? People were saying the exact same thing last year! "We have Rodon, Q and Sale, plus Eaton and Abreu as our core. Just need some tweaking.. If it doesn't work then blow it up next season." I read this basic phrase all last year around the deadline.

 

I just don't understand how minor tweaking fixes this mess. Or, with a baron minor league system and weak FA class, how'd we would accomplish it. But I'm sure when we fail again next year we'll just fall for the same false hope come 2018

 

Well, Melky, Lawrie and Frazier are all FA after next year, so really 2017 would be the year to blow it up versus this year. If you can't extract any surplus trade value out of the additional year of Sale and/or Q, you hold onto them and go to battle again in 2017 (2016 isn't completely lost either), not just trade them for s***s and giggles.

 

Look, I'm not in charge. I would be fine with the Sox tearing this thing down, because I realize this team has no minor league positional player talent. But you don't force these types of things. The Sox have literally the top 2 trade assets that are theoretically available in all of baseball - if traded, it needs to be no brainer.

[Rowand44]

Lol we'll never learn will we? People were saying the exact same thing last year! "We have Rodon, Q and Sale, plus Eaton and Abreu as our core. Just need some tweaking.. If it doesn't work then blow it up next season." I read this basic phrase all last year around the deadline.

 

I just don't understand how minor tweaking fixes this mess. Or, with a baron minor league system and weak FA class, how'd we would accomplish it. But I'm sure when we fail again next year we'll just fall for the same false hope come 2018

This. I was one of those people last year and nope, not falling into that trap ever again with this organization.

[bmags]

This year has the benefit of 3-4 teams that have graduated a lot of successful talent that has a group of top prospects behind them. Sale?Q are obviously going to be targeted by a great team already, one that puts them over top. The other top farm systems are relying on those guys to get them over the top.

 

WE don't know what next year looks like.

[ChiSox59]

This year has the benefit of 3-4 teams that have graduated a lot of successful talent that has a group of top prospects behind them. Sale?Q are obviously going to be targeted by a great team already, one that puts them over top. The other top farm systems are relying on those guys to get them over the top.

 

WE don't know what next year looks like.

 

This is true - definitely one of the benefits to moving one or both of those guys now.

 

[Balta1701]

This year has the benefit of 3-4 teams that have graduated a lot of successful talent that has a group of top prospects behind them. Sale?Q are obviously going to be targeted by a great team already, one that puts them over top. The other top farm systems are relying on those guys to get them over the top.

 

WE don't know what next year looks like.

We actually kinda do, because we can see how the FA market shapes up. Pre-2017 it is terrible, perhaps the worst FA market in decades. Literally everyone but Cespedes who would deserve big money is under contract. Josh Reddick has a shot at $100 million because if your revenue grew this year there's literally no where to spend it.

 

That means, if your team is thinking that they can make one last run in 2017...you better be prepared to pay a fortune. Since the FA market is that bad, you can also expect the trade market to be an incredible seller's market because everyone will be buying from any team willing to part with their guys.

 

In the 2018 offseason that's going to turn around. It will be the biggest free agent period we'll ever see. The Yankees will have cleared $100 million from their payroll compared to this season by then. Counting guys who got opt-out clauses like last year, it's going to be an absolute bonanza. Bryce Harper will set the market with whatever he gets from the Yankees, but then it will seem like everyone is out on the market. Cespedes will be the best FA on the market in 2017 and he wouldn't be in the top 10 in 2018. It'll wind up somewhat like last offseason, but perhaps worse - there will be a number of guys available to fill slots as free agents that teams just don't want to spend money on. If you're trying to rebuild that year by selling players, you're going to run into a buyer's market. Teams that want to rebuild at that time, who have hit a wall - they're going to find they're SOL if they try to sell that offseason because why give up prospects when you can just give up money?

[OmarComing25]

We actually kinda do, because we can see how the FA market shapes up. Pre-2017 it is terrible, perhaps the worst FA market in decades. Literally everyone but Cespedes who would deserve big money is under contract. Josh Reddick has a shot at $100 million because if your revenue grew this year there's literally no where to spend it.

 

That means, if your team is thinking that they can make one last run in 2017...you better be prepared to pay a fortune. Since the FA market is that bad, you can also expect the trade market to be an incredible seller's market because everyone will be buying from any team willing to part with their guys.

 

In the 2018 offseason that's going to turn around. It will be the biggest free agent period we'll ever see. The Yankees will have cleared $100 million from their payroll compared to this season by then. Counting guys who got opt-out clauses like last year, it's going to be an absolute bonanza. Bryce Harper will set the market with whatever he gets from the Yankees, but then it will seem like everyone is out on the market. Cespedes will be the best FA on the market in 2017 and he wouldn't be in the top 10 in 2018. It'll wind up somewhat like last offseason, but perhaps worse - there will be a number of guys available to fill slots as free agents that teams just don't want to spend money on. If you're trying to rebuild that year by selling players, you're going to run into a buyer's market. Teams that want to rebuild at that time, who have hit a wall - they're going to find they're SOL if they try to sell that offseason because why give up prospects when you can just give up money?

That's the offseason after the 2018 season, not before it, makes a big difference. The offseason after next year will still be terrible for buying free agents. The bonanza is still three offseasons away, and who knows who will be locked up/declined by then.

[Balta1701]

That's the offseason after the 2018 season, not before it, makes a big difference. The offseason after next year will still be terrible for buying free agents. The bonanza is still three offseasons away, and who knows who will be locked up/declined by then.

You're right - that makes it even harder to see how the White Sox will turn this mess around, but it does offer them some hope if they were to hold out next year, finish .500 again, and then decide to move guys.

[Flash Tizzle]

We actually kinda do, because we can see how the FA market shapes up. Pre-2017 it is terrible, perhaps the worst FA market in decades. Literally everyone but Cespedes who would deserve big money is under contract. Josh Reddick has a shot at $100 million because if your revenue grew this year there's literally no where to spend it.

 

That means, if your team is thinking that they can make one last run in 2017...you better be prepared to pay a fortune. Since the FA market is that bad, you can also expect the trade market to be an incredible seller's market because everyone will be buying from any team willing to part with their guys.

That's still no guaranteed that Sale or Quintana will bring you anything more significant in return. Why wait when everything right now, today, is practically tailor made for us to receive a haul for Q or Sale. That perceived sellers market pre-2017 only widens the options for teams, who may not feel the need to unload top talent. Remember, before the season many have World Series hopes and play the "on paper" W-L game. While that may widen the number of suitors, everyone is assembling their rosters based on projections and talent rich teams like the Dodgers for instance are not going to assume Kershaw will be injured again. Boston and Texas will not have the urgency in the offseason because they'll make trades for lesser talent whose projections they're comfortable with. Hell, even now we're fortunate to have lesser pitchers like Rich Hill with lingering issues or else he's be snatched up

 

I really believe we'll regret having not taken advantage of this moment in time. If they're not traded now, they won't be traded in the offseason. If someone cannot take advantage of a perfect opportunity now, then they're either too scared or too stubborn to do it and half a year won't change their mind. They'll be a bunch of excuses (as there always are) and ultimately we'll be right where we are right now.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Flash Tizzle

[harfman77]

Well, Melky, Lawrie and Frazier are all FA after next year, so really 2017 would be the year to blow it up versus this year. If you can't extract any surplus trade value out of the additional year of Sale and/or Q, you hold onto them and go to battle again in 2017 (2016 isn't completely lost either), not just trade them for s***s and giggles.

 

Look, I'm not in charge. I would be fine with the Sox tearing this thing down, because I realize this team has no minor league positional player talent. But you don't force these types of things. The Sox have literally the top 2 trade assets that are theoretically available in all of baseball - if traded, it needs to be no brainer.

 

 

Why let Melky, Frazier, Robertson, and Lawrie walk away for nothing when you can move them now and get something that can provide future value to the franchise.

[bmags]

That's still no guaranteed that Sale or Quintana will bring you anything more significant in return. Why wait when everything right now, today, is practically tailor made for us to receive a haul for Q or Sale. That perceived sellers market pre-2017 only widens the options for teams, who may not feel the need to unload top talent. Remember, before the season many have World Series hopes and play the "on paper" W-L game. While that may widen the number of suitors, everyone is assembling their rosters based on projections and talent rich teams like the Dodgers for instance are not going to assume Kershaw will be injured again. Boston and Texas will not have the urgency in the offseason because they'll make trades for lesser talent whose projections they're comfortable with. Hell, even now we're fortunate to have lesser pitchers like Rich Hill with lingering issues or else he's be snatched up

 

I really believe we'll regret having not taken advantage of this moment in time. If they're not traded now, they won't be traded in the offseason. If someone cannot take advantage of a perfect opportunity now, then they're either too scared or too stubborn to do it and half a year won't change their mind. They'll be a bunch of excuses (as there always are) and ultimately we'll be right where we are right now.

 

I agree.

[Flash Tizzle]

Why let Melky, Frazier, Robertson, and Lawrie walk away for nothing when you can move them now and get something that can provide future value to the franchise.

May as well trade them now so another team could have them contribute for 1.5 years and then receive a draft pick if they leave.

[OmarComing25]

That's still no guaranteed that Sale or Quintana will bring you anything more significant in return. Why wait when everything right now, today, is practically tailor made for us to receive a haul for Q or Sale. That perceived sellers market pre-2017 only widens the options for teams, who may not feel the need to unload top talent. Remember, before the season many have World Series hopes and play the "on paper" W-L game. While that may widen the number of suitors, everyone is assembling their rosters based on projections and talent rich teams like the Dodgers for instance are not going to assume Kershaw will be injured again. Boston and Texas will not have the urgency in the offseason because they'll make trades for lesser talent whose projections they're comfortable with. Hell, even now we're fortunate to have lesser pitchers like Rich Hill with lingering issues or else he's be snatched up

 

I really believe we'll regret having not taken advantage of this moment in time. If they're not traded now, they won't be traded in the offseason. If someone cannot take advantage of a perfect opportunity now, then they're either too scared or too stubborn to do it and half a year won't change their mind. They'll be a bunch of excuses (as there always are) and ultimately we'll be right where we are right now.

The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week.

Edited July 27, 2016 by OmarComing25

[TheTruth05]

The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week.

 

Yup, it's pretty much Boston or bust and it should be since they have the positional impact players the Sox need. Be overwhelmed or hang onto them, but we've seen Dombroski, I think he will budge.

[Bob Sacamano]

Yup, it's pretty much Boston or bust and it should be since they have the positional impact players the Sox need. Be overwhelmed or hang onto them, but we've seen Dombroski, I think he will budge.

 

Me too. Especially for Ortiz's final season.

[harfman77]

May as well trade them now so another team could have them contribute for 1.5 years and then receive a draft pick if they leave.

 

There is no guarantee that there will be a such thing as draft pick compensation 1.5 years from now. And if there is, who knows what you will have to offer a player to qualify for it. Do you really want to risk offering Melky a $20M deal to try and get draft pick compensation?

 

Let them bring back some value to the Sox now who can bring in prospects that can help them in the next two years rather than waiting in the thin chance at getting a draft pick back in return for them going elsewhere.

[Thad Bosley]

The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week.

Profar, Mazara, Tate and whomever else Texas chose to throw in for Quintana wouldn't get it done for you?

[Panerista]

Profar, Mazara, Tate and whomever else Texas chose to throw in for Quintana wouldn't get it done for you?

He's not paying attention. That's a lot of major league talent.

[OmarComing25]

Profar, Mazara, Tate and whomever else Texas chose to throw in for Quintana wouldn't get it done for you?

I don't think Texas would do that right now with all the injuries they've had, it's not like they're lighting it up offensively lately. No way they trade a starting OF plus another major part of their major-league roster in the middle of a playoff push. And again I don't see why Profar makes any sense at all, he has less control remaining than Quintana. Tate has already gone on the DL this year and has mediocre numbers all around in low-A, he's not even a top 100 prospect anymore (looking at BA's midseason list).

Edited July 27, 2016 by OmarComing25

[ChiSox59]

Why let Melky, Frazier, Robertson, and Lawrie walk away for nothing when you can move them now and get something that can provide future value to the franchise.

 

Because they aren't going to bring much back in return. Lawrie is hurt. Frazier is doing his best Adam Dunn impersonation, minus the walks. Melky might get you something interesting, but doubt a top 100 guy if sox aren't eating some money. Moving those guys aren't moving the needle much in a positive direction prospect-wise, and would destroy any chance the Sox have of staying in the hunt in 2016, and would be punting 2017. You can always trade those guys next July as well - when Sale and Q will be just as valuable.

 

But as I've said many times now, if you move Sale (won't happen), may as well trade everyone of value outside of Eaton, Abreu, Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson and Jones.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ChiSox59

[ChiSox59]

The thing is, I'm not really interested in any package Texas could put together, and the Dodgers don't really have the position player prospects that we need (despite how great Urias and De Leon are). The only team I'm really interested in dealing with if I'm trading Sale is Boston and since some writers think they'd be unwilling to include both Moncada and Benintendi in a potential deal then it might make sense to hold on to him until the offseason, when they might be more willing or other teams could jump in. If the right deal isn't there don't do it just to do it. But I'm sure you'll act like they could have had Boston's entire farm system if Sale or Quintana is not traded this week.

 

This. Great post.

[Thad Bosley]

I don't think Texas would do that right now with all the injuries they've had, it's not like they're lighting it up offensively lately. No way they trade a starting OF plus another major part of their major-league roster in the middle of a playoff push. And again I don't see why Profar makes any sense at all, he has less control remaining than Quintana. Tate has already gone on the DL this year and has mediocre numbers all around in low-A.

Profar-for-Quintana, straight up, I'm with ya. Profar with all of his talent for the next three years IN ADDITION to the aforementioned prospects, sign me up any day of the week. Profar is an elite talent.