Is this a PR Disaster for the Sox?

[dpd9189]

If Hahn is able to get a really nice mix of ML talent and near-ready prospects in return for Sale, where the Sox might take half a step back in 2017 but would be able to move forward in 2018, hopefully JR would let him make that deal. Otherwise, we're going to have 77-83 win teams for the next few years.

 

If the Sox do a total rebuild, they need to trade both Q and Sale. These two guys will bring back the best packages in both quantity and quality of players/prospects. If you look at what is in the Sox organization right now, who are your starters in 2018? Frazier and Melky are UFA's after next year, they have no centerfielder, catcher (I know Zack Collins is a catcher but he might be a better fit at DH) or 2B right now. Abreu is a negative WAR player now and the jury is still out on Tim Anderson. This organization needs to start acquiring/drafting/developing everyday core players which right now they severely lack.

 

Also if the Sox do a total rebuild, the next few years will suck but if they do it right then they can be good for a long time. People often complain on how long it took the Cubs to rebuild, however it only took them 3 seasons. Epstein took over after the 2011 season so 2012 was the first season of their rebuild, 3 years later they were in the NLCS. So rebuilds can be done if a short amount of time if they're done right. Hopefully the Sox follow suit and do this right. If they do, then I'll fully support it. Beats watching a 75 win team year after year.

 

[Hatchetman]

Jon Heyman grades the teams at the trade deadline:

 

26. Chicago White Sox. Their sale was a dud, though there are worse things than keeping Sale and Quintana. As for the others, there was no evidence of a real market for David Robertson, the outfielders or even Todd Frazier. “Only moving Duke was surprising,” one rival said. “I’m not sure the market gets better in the offseason.” On the plus side, they did get Charlie Tilson, a speedy outfielder originally from the elite suburban public New Trier High (it draws from tiny Wilmette and Winnetka) that also produced GM Rick Hahn and many other luminaries (Charlton Heston, Rock Hudson and Ann-Margret). Though, it didn’t help that Tilson had to go on the DL one game into his Chisox career with a season-ending torn hamstring. Grade: D.

 

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/inside-ba...trade-deadline/

[Harry Chappas]

One of the best posts I've seen on this board.

 

That post hits it right on the head.

 

As a 44 year old person living on the south side Chicago, is it the weight of a poorly run city, within a poorly run county and a very poorly run state during a presidential campaign that appears to end in very poorly run country for the next four years that leads me to have disdain for a poorly run baseball franchise which used ot bring joy to my life.

 

The baseball franchise is the only thing I can actually refrain from pissing money away on as the other entities that I can not really control are killing me, literally.

 

I also have never seen such disdain from fans not from the Careless Lee days, white flag or strike. Maybe it is the access to media but this seems worse.

 

My guess it is some combination of all fo this and then the cubs turnign into the Blackhawks in that they are being run by a person with a plan and the ability to execute it.

 

The White Sox appear to be a rudderless ship.

 

 

 

 

[Black_Jack29]

If the Sox do a total rebuild, they need to trade both Q and Sale. These two guys will bring back the best packages in both quantity and quality of players/prospects. If you look at what is in the Sox organization right now, who are your starters in 2018? Frazier and Melky are UFA's after next year, they have no centerfielder, catcher (I know Zack Collins is a catcher but he might be a better fit at DH) or 2B right now. Abreu is a negative WAR player now and the jury is still out on Tim Anderson. This organization needs to start acquiring/drafting/developing everyday core players which right now they severely lack.

 

Also if the Sox do a total rebuild, the next few years will suck but if they do it right then they can be good for a long time. People often complain on how long it took the Cubs to rebuild, however it only took them 3 seasons. Epstein took over after the 2011 season so 2012 was the first season of their rebuild, 3 years later they were in the NLCS. So rebuilds can be done if a short amount of time if they're done right. Hopefully the Sox follow suit and do this right. If they do, then I'll fully support it. Beats watching a 75 win team year after year.

 

I'm not sure that trading both Sale and Q will help this organization more than just trading one of them. I think that the Sox can get 3-4 Top 25 prospects or 2 Top 25 prospects and a really good young ML player for Sale, and then you have Q under team control until 2020. The Sox have a middle-of-the-road payroll that would allow them to get a semi-decent DH and a good defensive catcher to back up Collins via free agency. I'd also like to see them offer Frazier an extension, and I think that a diminished Abreu hitting in front of him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

If you trade both Sale and Q, you're relying on Rodon and Fulmer to be your #1 and #2. I don't see evidence that Rodon is going to be an ace and I haven't seen anybody project Fulmer to be more than a #3. And then you have to find #3 and #4 starters, and hope that Shields is doable as a #5. If the Sox can get somebody like Kopech in return and he turns out to be a stud as projected, then that certainly helps. But that seems risky to me when you already have a proven stud like Q.

 

[dmbjeff]

The problem is Hahn knew all the payroll restrictions when he took the job, and about KW's status as his superior/supervisor/mentor, whatever you want to call it.

 

During these four or five years, we've been unable to grow revenues and expand payroll....at least not since the blip of the 2014-15 off-season when we foolishly tried to spend our way into contention but didn't really come close.

 

I can't imagine many of the die-hard season ticket holders not ripping up or throwing away anything having to do with 2017 right now.

 

 

But the solution is VERY VERY simple. They're going to have to trade Sale OR Quintana this off-season AND be willing to up the payroll into the $140-150 million range in order to acquire some of the pieces they can't trade for.

 

You can see them making one of the trades, but raising payroll in the face of declining revenues, in a FA market with a declining rate of return on investment.....yeah, not so much.

 

HEGONE7 said it well.

 

JR has to have a long conversation with the board of directors and decide if he really trusts Hahn AND/OR KW to stick around for this rebuild/retooling. Realistically, they need to start making checklists (Stone said this on the Score today) of 1-20 or 1-50 of all the areas of minor league development/scouting/evaluation (baserunning, fielding, fundamentals, advancing runners, backing up bases, positioning on throws, bunting), etc., and bringing in more "experts" from the outside (see Hostetler or Paddy) who can replace long-time Sox scouts and coaching staff who quite simply aren't getting the job done.

 

 

At any rate, right now....there's just ZERO hope for 2017. It would have been better had they started the process at the trade deadline, but they still have August and the offseason. Unfortunately, we won't get the advantage of seeing Tilson now because he's injured. We know that Sanchez probably isn't an everyday player. It's just going to be frustrating watching guys like Shuck, Avi Garcia, Morneau and the Navarro soaking up playing time when they're unlikely to be part of the team next year. The same thing happened at the end of 2015, when they almost completely stopped playing Saladino over the last couple of months....because they wanted to give Alexei Ramirez the best opportunity to earn money as a FA???? It just didn't make any sense, and still doesn't.

 

Send Fulmer back to AAA so he can start. Let Ranaudo get some more starts. Play Saladino, and Tilson when he (hopefully) returns from his hamstring injury. Heck, bring up Burdi for awhile and see how he does out of the bullpen in September. Just give the fans SOME TANGIBLE reason to be interested in following this team going forward.

 

 

 

It's pretty sad when I was watching the game yesterday and a fellow Sox fan said...well, at least the Twins have Sano and Kepler and Berrios and Buxton (even if they're in last)....and they'll have a very high draft pick next year...so what do we have to look forward to in terms of young impact position players? Difference makers...? Are there any?

 

It's as if Hahn and KW have no idea as to what they really are. They are more Oakland A's than they are New York Yankees. They simply don't have the payroll to run like the Yankees, which I am fine with, but they don't run the franchise like the A's either, and that's the biggest problem. They have to have young talent coming through the pipeline consistently. They simply don't have that. They have to fix the minor leagues and they need to replenish it the best they can, which means selling off key MLB pieces to do so. The other problem is, do they actually want to do that or will they keep throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks. That has been the plan the past 11 years. They got lucky in 2005 and all the crap they threw together actually worked. Since then it has been a collection of Mackowiaks, Erstads, Avis, Rollins type guys rolling through here. You just can't expect to win when you have no real plan other than hoping. Hoping and praying isn't a business plan.

 

They have to either throw $50 million more into payroll and act like a real big market team or strip it all down and rebuild the right way. The problem is they won't do either. That's what's so mind boggling about all of this. I believe rebuilding is the more prudent decision, also knowing throwing money at the team is not something I ever envision happening.

[LVSoxFan]

Bravo! This hits the nail on the head. I couldn't express my feelings towards the current situation the White Sox are in any better than this.

 

Yup, that summed it all up perfectly.

[caulfield12]

If the Sox do a total rebuild, they need to trade both Q and Sale. These two guys will bring back the best packages in both quantity and quality of players/prospects. If you look at what is in the Sox organization right now, who are your starters in 2018? Frazier and Melky are UFA's after next year, they have no centerfielder, catcher (I know Zack Collins is a catcher but he might be a better fit at DH) or 2B right now. Abreu is a negative WAR player now and the jury is still out on Tim Anderson. This organization needs to start acquiring/drafting/developing everyday core players which right now they severely lack.

 

Also if the Sox do a total rebuild, the next few years will suck but if they do it right then they can be good for a long time. People often complain on how long it took the Cubs to rebuild, however it only took them 3 seasons. Epstein took over after the 2011 season so 2012 was the first season of their rebuild, 3 years later they were in the NLCS. So rebuilds can be done if a short amount of time if they're done right. Hopefully the Sox follow suit and do this right. If they do, then I'll fully support it. Beats watching a 75 win team year after year.

 

Sure, but then you need to be able to trade for Arrieta, Rizzo, Russell and McKinney and get all those players without trading Sale or Quintana in order to pull it off.