How much hope should we have for Anderson?

[Hatchetman]

Since 1980

 

Name BB% WAR

Garret Anderson 4.70% 24

Mark Grudzielan 4.80% 23.2

Frank White 4.90% 23.1

A.J. Pierzynski 3.90% 23.1

Erick Aybar 4.80% 18.8

Alexei Ramirez 4.80% 16.8

Carlos Baerga 4.90% 15.7

Rey Sanchez 4.40% 14.6

Sand Alomar Jr. 4.40% 13.2

Ozzie Guillen 3.40% 13.1

Starlin Castro 4.90% 11.3

Corey Patterson 4.60% 10.8

Alcides Escobar 4.10% 10.1

 

[caulfield12]

Since 1980

 

Name BB% WAR

Garret Anderson 4.70% 24

Mark Grudzielan 4.80% 23.2

Frank White 4.90% 23.1

A.J. Pierzynski 3.90% 23.1

Erick Aybar 4.80% 18.8

Alexei Ramirez 4.80% 16.8

Carlos Baerga 4.90% 15.7

Rey Sanchez 4.40% 14.6

Sand Alomar Jr. 4.40% 13.2

Ozzie Guillen 3.40% 13.1

Starlin Castro 4.90% 11.3

Corey Patterson 4.60% 10.8

Alcides Escobar 4.10% 10.1

 

Most of those guys also have much higher contact rates....after Anderson.

 

Ironic that Alexei's on that same list, with Ozzie. Lots of ex Cubs and Sox. Almost all AL Central players. Weird.

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Since 1980

 

Name BB% WAR

Garret Anderson 4.70% 24

Mark Grudzielan 4.80% 23.2

Frank White 4.90% 23.1

A.J. Pierzynski 3.90% 23.1

Erick Aybar 4.80% 18.8

Alexei Ramirez 4.80% 16.8

Carlos Baerga 4.90% 15.7

Rey Sanchez 4.40% 14.6

Sand Alomar Jr. 4.40% 13.2

Ozzie Guillen 3.40% 13.1

Starlin Castro 4.90% 11.3

Corey Patterson 4.60% 10.8

Alcides Escobar 4.10% 10.1

 

 

Interesting..thank you. Some better names than I would have thought, but still doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture. If Anderson goes onto have the career of Erick Aybar there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He should be proud of that kind of career and no one would have the right to complain...BUT when that's your organizations best hitting prospect its a huge problem.

 

*And not saying that Aybar is Anderson's ceiling either before anyone gets their panties further in a bunch. Just saying that its a likely career path IF major changes aren't made to his hitting approach.

[greg775]

The guy has hardly been around, yet you people want to crucify him. Players do grow over the years, you know. Even if he does not, he can still be a decent hitter even if the sabermetrics crowd never approves of him. Should the Sox ever move out of Chicago, it will because of so-called fans like you guys who just want to trash your players no matter how good they are.

Nobody's crucifying him. He's had 200 at bats and it's fair to comment on those. My guess is since he won't take a walk, he'll be an OK ballplayer, nothing special, never an all-star or anything. Just another guy at about .245 ceiling, 65 ribbies, maybe more if he gets his home run total past 15 a year.

I'd say he'll normally hit .245 tops; .220 bottom, 15 HRS, 65 RBI type player.

[bmags]

Interesting..thank you. Some better names than I would have thought, but still doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture. If Anderson goes onto have the career of Erick Aybar there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He should be proud of that kind of career and no one would have the right to complain...BUT when that's your organizations best hitting prospect its a huge problem.

 

*And not saying that Aybar is Anderson's ceiling either before anyone gets their panties further in a bunch. Just saying that its a likely career path IF major changes aren't made to his hitting approach.

 

That's a different argument. But worth noting that Mark Grudzellliank and Shawn Duncan were Andersons common reference points. Frankly of the above, it's anderson's athleticism/speed potential for SB and defense that makes him more promising. But considering the SS who just came up in the game, Anderson will be a solid starter for many years for us (IMO when he settles in) but not close to top 5 which Alexei probably was during that SS downtime.

[kitekrazy]

If we are being honest then maybe we should give him more than 2 months to be realistic about the situation. The league will adjust, and hopefully he will adjust like he did in the minors

 

Sox fans are impatient the kids from the farm. They figure the team is so bad they gotta be better than the current roster.

 

[greg775]

Sox fans are impatient the kids from the farm. They figure the team is so bad they gotta be better than the current roster.

We waited forever for Viciedo to learn to draw a walk. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

[tray]

What we like about Anderson coming up to the plate is that he poses danger to the opposing pitcher, and that pressure can play dividends beyond his at bat.

He has home run power and if he hits one in the gap, it is fun to watch him fly. This is an exciting ballplayer to watch, just like Eaton is. I like watching how fast he gets from first to third on a triple.

 

[greg775]

What we like about Anderson coming up to the plate is that he poses danger to the opposing pitcher, and that pressure can play dividends beyond his at bat.

He has home run power and if he hits one in the gap, it is fun to watch him fly. This is an exciting ballplayer to watch, just like Eaton is. I like watching how fast he gets from first to third on a triple.

True stuff. Post more please.

[hi8is]

I'll take Gordon Beckham for $1,000 Alex

[Boopa1219]

I remain high on Tim Anderson, he is only going to get better if with experience, which is defined by Hawk as, knowledge you get when you didnt want it (or something stupid like that).

[harfman77]

Fulmer now Anderson...

 

Another thread that shows people can't handle a rebuild. Rookies do struggle. Did you know JB Shuck led AL rookies in several categories a few years ago?

 

Both are guys that shouldn't be in the majors yet. Anderson really needed to work on his ability to work the count and draw some more walks. Fulmer was not great for half the season then the Sox rushed him up after he found a little success. If the Sox FO would have recognized they were out of it, Fulmer should have never come up. Anderson was more understandable as they were still relatively in contention when they brought him up. The Sox are notorious for rushing players through the minors, which in my mind contributes a lot to the struggles they have with developing position players. The Sox are always eager to get their players to fail so that they can learn how to deal with adversity, the issue is that they never give them enough time at a level when they are being successful to let them experience success.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Again, not the same. If Anderson showed the ability to walk at a 10% rate in the high minors like Bogearts did then this would indeed be a stupid overreaction thread. But as it stands Bogearts' worst walk% as a pro was still better than Anderson's best.

 

So for those in the no worry crowd...can someone show me some players who maintained long careers with a walk % below 6 and didn't rely on power? Maybe it's more than I think, that's an honest question.

 

There's some guy named Ichiro Suzuki who is about to get his 3000th hit and is going to sail into the HOF 5.5 years after he retires. Career walk rate? 5.9%.

[Chisoxfn]

The team's #1 hitting prospect and got off to a hot start to cause excitement...but now the warts are really starting to show.

 

I'm sure I'll get some backlash from posters about how young he is and its too early, but there is obviously a really serious issue in his batting approach that isn't just going to go away. I mean, we are talking about a guy who had a sub 5% walk rate in nearly 700 AB's across AA and AAA. So this isn't him adjusting to major league pitching, this is how he plays the game of baseball.

 

Now, thankfully he's a SS who possess an elite speed tool so he doesn't have to be a .300 hitter to be useful, but I'm curious to see where expectations are at this point after getting a look at him.

 

Personally I see him as our everyday SS down the line, but not a reliable top of the order bat like Robin is trying to make him into now. I'll say something like .250/.290/.400 with 30 steals and an above average defender at short....good player to have on the team, but as literally our only hitting prospect (before the '16 draft) worth anything I think it's a key reminder of how sad of shape we really are in

Please note just one thing. We all knew he was raw and it was going to be an aggressive call up and we know he has a lot to learn. It takes time for guys to develop and become major league players and there is a level of patience required. The organization better be patient and allow Anderson to grow. He has a lot of tools and he should be part of this future. Does he have warts, certainly, but he also has a ton of tools and skill.

[Chisoxfn]

He's probably a 7-9 hitter on a really good team. Posts similar to this one and others about Rodon and Fulmer though continue to tell me that this fan base isn't ready for a rebuild. People think that everyone is Chris Sale. This place will be rough during a rebuild

I agree. People need to understand, very rarely do guys just come up and rake or be a total stud. It takes time to develop pieces and we as fans need to understand that and the organization certainly needs to understand it. Thus far, this organization, with some exceptions (see Avi / Beckham) has not been known for their patience with young position players.

[iamshack]

He's probably a 7-9 hitter on a really good team. Posts similar to this one and others about Rodon and Fulmer though continue to tell me that this fan base isn't ready for a rebuild. People think that everyone is Chris Sale. This place will be rough during a rebuild

I think the bolded is a myth.

 

The issue isn't that these guys themselves come up and struggle a bit. The issue is that these guys are placed in a position where a team designed to be competitive needs them to succeed in order to actually be competitive. This creates an atmosphere where the organization, the team, the player and the fans are placing so much reliance on the prospect to immediately contribute that it sort of ruins the entire mood for everyone.

 

If we were to rebuild, I think there would be an acceptance for struggles and growing pains because of reduced expectations that simply doesn't exist when you are trying to compete year in and year out.

[Chisoxfn]

I think the bolded is a myth.

 

The issue isn't that these guys themselves come up and struggle a bit. The issue is that these guys are placed in a position where a team designed to be competitive needs them to succeed in order to actually be competitive. This creates an atmosphere where the organization, the team, the player and the fans are placing so much reliance on the prospect to immediately contribute that it sort of ruins the entire mood for everyone.

 

If we were to rebuild, I think there would be an acceptance for struggles and growing pains because of reduced expectations that simply doesn't exist when you are trying to compete year in and year out.

I agree with what you outlined here, but people are bashing Anderson and we clearly aren't competing this year (at least not anymore). Similar with Fulmer. The rest of this year we should maximize guys who we think have longer term future and allow them to develop (and that includes Saladino who should really get a lot more at bats).

[Dick Allen]

I think the bolded is a myth.

 

The issue isn't that these guys themselves come up and struggle a bit. The issue is that these guys are placed in a position where a team designed to be competitive needs them to succeed in order to actually be competitive. This creates an atmosphere where the organization, the team, the player and the fans are placing so much reliance on the prospect to immediately contribute that it sort of ruins the entire mood for everyone.

 

If we were to rebuild, I think there would be an acceptance for struggles and growing pains because of reduced expectations that simply doesn't exist when you are trying to compete year in and year out.

What is the difference now when they really don't have much of a shot?

 

Are you saying the Anderson and Fulmer questioning wouldn't be happening if the traded Sale and/or Quintana at the deadline and instead of losing 2-1 the other day, they lost 9 or 10 to 1?

 

We are at the point where the White Sox intention at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. They are playing out the string. If you can't take an 0-4 from Anderson or Fulmer giving up a HR, you aren't going to accept a season or 2 or 3 or 20 of it where the entire roster is players in the same boat.

 

 

The team waved the white flag in 2013 and for the 2014 season. The roster, the record, the play, were still held against any and all management.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Dick Allen

[FT35]

Couple things...

 

1. In regards to the fan base not being ready for a rebuild...I agree...if we had to endure a rebuild with the guys currently in our system, we would all invest in brown paper bags for the next decade--until 2 or our mostly blown 10 top 3 draft picks hit pay dirt--and subsequently get moved for other prospects or aging vets. However...the types of prospects we would get for Sale/Q WOULD be worth watching and hoping for! I think I'd be ready to root for the best prospect in the nation to pan out for us, rather than watch the likes of Jimmy Rollins and Mat Latos try to rediscover their lost form from 7 years ago. Neither model is fool proof to failure--but one is MUCH more interesting to watch.

 

2. Dick Allen...I might be alone on here but I love your posts! You're grounded in your thoughts and I enjoy reading what you have to say. Now to poke the bear a little...you mentioned the GM's comment about being mirrored in mediocrity and how he was going to change that--"because he said he would." Couldn't help but to chuckle at your confidence in him to fix this : ) Now jokes aside...knowing what we know about RH, how do you predict he's going to change it? Free agent signings? Will he trade Sale/Q? New manager? 2016 waiver adds? He literally could go anywhere with this...just curious to hear your take based on what we know. The reason I ask is because I think your thoughts will be closer to reality than anyone else's predictions on this site.

[iamshack]

What is the difference now when they really don't have much of a shot?

 

Are you saying the Anderson and Fulmer questioning wouldn't be happening if the traded Sale and/or Quintana at the deadline and instead of losing 2-1 the other day, they lost 9 or 10 to 1?

 

We are at the point where the White Sox intention at the beginning of the season is irrelevant. They are playing out the string. If you can't take an 0-4 from Anderson or Fulmer giving up a HR, you aren't going to accept a season or 2 or 3 or 20 of it where the entire roster is players in the same boat.

 

 

The team waved the white flag in 2013 and for the 2014 season. The roster, the record, the play, were still held against any and all management.

First of all, Fulmer would not be forced into this bizarre role if we weren't bringing him up because of some misplaced designs on competing.

 

If we were rebuilding, he would either be starting in Birmingham/Charlotte or in Chicago.

 

The same could be said for Anderson, although I suspect he also could be asked to bat in a different place in the order, or to actually work on becoming a better MLB hitter, instead of what his instructions seem to be now. I mean why is this kid batting 1st or 2nd still?

 

Yes, I know none of us seem to think we are no longer competing, but I am not sure the club is acting like we are not competing.

Edited August 5, 2016 by iamshack

[Dick Allen]

Couple things...

 

1. In regards to the fan base not being ready for a rebuild...I agree...if we had to endure a rebuild with the guys currently in our system, we would all invest in brown paper bags for the next decade--until 2 or our mostly blown 10 top 3 draft picks hit pay dirt--and subsequently get moved for other prospects or aging vets. However...the types of prospects we would get for Sale/Q WOULD be worth watching and hoping for! I think I'd be ready to root for the best prospect in the nation to pan out for us, rather than watch the likes of Jimmy Rollins and Mat Latos try to rediscover their lost form from 7 years ago. Neither model is fool proof to failure--but one is MUCH more interesting to watch.

 

2. Dick Allen...I might be alone on here but I love your posts! You're grounded in your thoughts and I enjoy reading what you have to say. Now to poke the bear a little...you mentioned the GM's comment about being mirrored in mediocrity and how he was going to change that--"because he said he would." Couldn't help but to chuckle at your confidence in him to fix this : ) Now jokes aside...knowing what we know about RH, how do you predict he's going to change it? Free agent signings? Will he trade Sale/Q? New manager? 2016 waiver adds? He literally could go anywhere with this...just curious to hear your take based on what we know. The reason I ask is because I think your thoughts will be closer to reality than anyone else's predictions on this site.

I don't know if anyone should have confidence in Hahn, I am just pointing out that they aren't going to try to make it work with the same players again. It will be a very different mix. Whether they still will be mired in mediocrity, I don't know. I choose to hope not, but I can understand if people think it won't work. But many of the same people who say KW, JR and Hahn have no clue, want these guys to get rid of all of their good players and choose prospects to replace them. I have no idea why someone would think that's a good idea with no confidence in the management team.

 

The fact is, if you are going to totally rebuild and you are trading pillars of a core, you have to have the utmost confidence in the people tearing it down. If not, you are only going to make a bad situation worse, and worse for a long time.

[ChiSox59]

So far he seems to hit exactly as one would expect from his minor league #s suggest. Upon casual observation his defense looks good enough to play SS. However, Stony was on B&B the other day and said the Sox should work him in CF as he didn't know if he could play SS. I dunno what Stony is seeing but he knows the game better than I do. His bat doesn't play in CF IMO.

 

Really? I think he has looked pretty good at SS - better than I envisioned for sure.

[Hatchetman]

well a few years ago, Stony said Abreu was "far better" than Rizzo, so I don't know what to think.

[SI1020]

Nobody's crucifying him. He's had 200 at bats and it's fair to comment on those. My guess is since he won't take a walk, he'll be an OK ballplayer, nothing special, never an all-star or anything. Just another guy at about .245 ceiling, 65 ribbies, maybe more if he gets his home run total past 15 a year.

I'd say he'll normally hit .245 tops; .220 bottom, 15 HRS, 65 RBI type player.

I agree with this post except I think he can hit better than that. I also don't think he will realize his potential (I think he can hit in the .260 or so range) if he doesn't move those walk totals up a tad. He needs to do that plain and simple and to me that is just reality. Edited August 5, 2016 by SI1020

[SI1020]

We waited forever for Viciedo to learn to draw a walk. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

Just like we're waiting a long time for Avi to reach his alleged potential.