Bernstein: Sources say White Sox might be for sale

[Dick Allen]

I believe so, I think that the TV money they can get in those markets that have zero summer live sports inventory is going to dwarf what they would get as the second team in Chicago, especially if CSN goes in all 162 Cubs games and relegates the SOX to CSN+ or local TV.

 

Why would the White Sox be the team that moves and not one of the 15 or so teams that don't have as much revenue or perceived value? Besides, one thing in all those articles the Tribune had about White Sox ownership a few years ago mentioned, was if the team was sold, JR wanted it be sold to locals.

 

I would put odds that there is a 99% chance the White Sox are not sold before JR dies, a 75% chance his heirs keep the team, and a 0% chance they move in the next 25 years.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

The A's aren't. The White Sox also have a lease.

 

Why would the league let the White Sox move and take away a landing spot for one of the other teams that has less revenue and worth significantly less as a franchise?

 

Things are much different than the mid 90's when the Sox were looking at moving. With all of the expansion, plus the OAK and TB issues, the Sox wouldn't be allowed to move. I mean they could try, and they might win in court ala the Raiders (though the MLB monopoly powers might trump that), but what would happen is that MLB wouldn't approve a sale to any ownership group who wanted to move. That solves the problem before it evens starts.

[harfman77]

At worst, the White Sox are a middle of the pack team in value and revenue, even with their dry spell on the field. That isn't a team that gets moved. They will not be moved. It's ridiculous to even think there's a chance. Charlotte and Raliegh combined have less than half the population of Chicago proper. 2 teams there would be a joke.

 

Hes saying play in both cities, or be at a midpoint between the two, which would give you access to a fanbase in both cities, not have teams in both.

 

Charlotte and Raleigh also have a lot of money to kick in with corporate sponsorship's (money that largely goes to the Cubs in Chicago) and have Fox Sports Carolina's and Time Warner Sports that would compete for the TV rights.

 

The fact that the Sox had their bags packed once before certainly means that they could move. It really depends on what the next ownership group is going to value.

[southsider2k5]

I believe so, I think that the TV money they can get in those markets that have zero summer live sports inventory is going to dwarf what they would get as the second team in Chicago, especially if CSN goes in all 162 Cubs games and relegates the SOX to CSN+ or local TV.

 

The Sox already have a $50 million annual TV deal, even before it is renegotiated in 2019. That could push into the $100 million annual range for sure. I don't see anyone outside of Chicago beating that.

[Quin]

Not necessarily true. The poster said early stages. Not sure how much you know about early dementia but I have been working with patients for close to 20 years. Someone who has early dementia can be perfectly lucid in some areas but will have other parts of their daily routine that they struggle with. For example, it is very common for a dementia patient to sit down and work a crossword puzzle or discuss their childhood yet have no clue what they ate for lunch an hour ago. If Jr was able to do a 30 minute feature he most likely would be in a very early stage if he does have the start of dementia.

 

Three weeks ago my dad saw JR at a deli that JR frequents in Arizona. Said he seemed fine.

[southsider2k5]

I guess that Mexico City and Motreal are frequently speculated as expansion locations, so they could be in play, but I don't see it.

 

I can't see Mexico being a go with the Peso as the primary currency down there. That puts a team down there at a competitive disadvantage to get revenue in Pesos, but pay out in dollars. It has been an issue at times in Canada when the C$ is weak.

[harfman77]

Things are much different than the mid 90's when the Sox were looking at moving. With all of the expansion, plus the OAK and TB issues, the Sox wouldn't be allowed to move. I mean they could try, and they might win in court ala the Raiders (though the MLB monopoly powers might trump that), but what would happen is that MLB wouldn't approve a sale to any ownership group who wanted to move. That solves the problem before it evens starts.

 

The owners would never do that, because they would never want that done to them. Taking away the ability to relocate would severely impair the leverage of ownership in future stadium negotiations and in turn would make the team substantially less valuable in a sale. Owners will never impair other owners from the ability to make money.

[southsider2k5]

The owners would never do that, because they would never want that done to them. Taking away the ability to relocate would severely impair the leverage of ownership in future stadium negotiations and in turn would make the team substantially less valuable in a sale. Owners will never impair other owners from the ability to make money.

 

I 100% believe that MLB ownership would select an ownership group with Chicago ties versus one wanting to leave Chicago. I think big picture, the league as a whole makes more money with a second team in Chicago, and the OAK/TB moves to one of those markets versus the Sox front running one of those truly struggling franchises and potentially leaving it to stay where it currently is. That is why they wouldn't approve an ownership group who wanted to move the team.

[Dick Allen]

I 100% believe that MLB ownership would select an ownership group with Chicago ties versus one wanting to leave Chicago. I think big picture, the league as a whole makes more money with a second team in Chicago, and the OAK/TB moves to one of those markets versus the Sox front running one of those truly struggling franchises and potentially leaving it to stay where it currently is. That is why they wouldn't approve an ownership group who wanted to move the team.

It's actually one reason JR got the Sox in the first place. Veeck initially wanted to sell to Marvin Davis who wanted to move the team to Denver. Then went with DeBartolo who said the team would stay although many did not believe it. The league wanted local ownership, and still do.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

Thanks to revenue sharing, Sox would never leave Chicago unless the league could make more money.

 

Most places getting tossed around won't make more money than being the second team in Chicago.

[Dick Allen]

Thanks to revenue sharing, Sox would never leave Chicago unless the league could make more money.

 

Most places getting tossed around won't make more money than being the second team in Chicago.

Maybe an initial burst, but after that, you are right. Look at the expansion teams since the Sox were going to move. The ALL have less revenue than the Sox.

 

Tampa, Miami, Phoenix, and Denver.

[bmags]

The owners would never do that, because they would never want that done to them. Taking away the ability to relocate would severely impair the leverage of ownership in future stadium negotiations and in turn would make the team substantially less valuable in a sale. Owners will never impair other owners from the ability to make money.

 

I disagree. Just like how MLB players will allow tighter restrictions on incoming draftees vs major league players, owners would easily allow for tougher restrictions on new owners that they wouldn't allow on themselves. They may not handicap an owner once he is an owner, but they certainly will to a potential one.

[captain54]

Thanks to revenue sharing, Sox would never leave Chicago unless the league could make more money.

 

Most places getting tossed around won't make more money than being the second team in Chicago.

 

There is a huge amount of untapped potential for the Sox in Chicago… I'm sure MLB is taking note…

 

The geographical environs and infrastructure in the south, southwest, southeast, and western burbs and significantly changed over the years.. making it more advantageous for a build-up of the Sox fan base. more than ever before.

 

 

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I guess that Mexico City and Motreal are frequently speculated as expansion locations, so they could be in play, but I don't see it.

Montreal is easily the best city suited for a MLB team, way above any of the locations you listed. And none of them make a lick of sense relative to Chicago. Please list the largest TV deals and tell me how many aren't in top 10 markets.

[RichieZisk]

I believe so, I think that the TV money they can get in those markets that have zero summer live sports inventory is going to dwarf what they would get as the second team in Chicago, especially if CSN goes in all 162 Cubs games and relegates the SOX to CSN+ or local TV.

 

JR owns 40% of CSN so that is not happening. If anything the Cubs will sell their share in CSN (maybe to Blackhawks?) and create a completely new channel especially if they win a WS between now and 2019. Providers will be cautious due to issues with LA Dodgers but the Cubs will still make a ton of money.

 

It could just be me but it seems that a lot of the people who are proponents of the Sox moving do not live in Chicago and/or do not go to any games. I don't know anyone local who would even consider the Sox moving any sort of a good thing except of course the fans in the far west and north burbs who would love a close ballpark which is never going to happen.

Edited August 16, 2016 by RichieZisk

[Hatchetman]

Total theoretical here, but how much, if at all, does the value of the franchise increase if Theo Epstein is put in charge of White Sox baseball operations?

[Kyyle23]

Total theoretical here, but how much, if at all, does the value of the franchise increase if Theo Epstein is put in charge of White Sox baseball operations?

 

5.237

[bmags]

his contract amount.

[Thad Bosley]

The Chicago White Sox aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They are 12th in MLB in TV revenue, and only $3M separates them from being in the top ten in all of baseball in that all-important revenue stream. You couple that with the massive revenue-friendly sweetheart lease deal they enjoy, and they won't get a more profitable deal in any another city.

 

This also dispels the myth that the team somehow operates in a "limited resources" environment. The facts as just referenced support quite the contrary.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-t...l-30-mlb-teams/

Edited August 17, 2016 by Thad Bosley

[Chicago White Sox]

The Chicago White Sox aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They are 12th in MLB in TV revenue, and only $3M separates them from being in the top ten in all of baseball in that all-important revenue stream. You couple that with the massive revenue-friendly sweetheart lease deal they enjoy, and they won't get a more profitable deal in any another city.

 

This also dispels the myth that the team somehow operates in a "limited resources" environment. The facts as just referenced support quite the contrary.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-t...l-30-mlb-teams/

Hmmm, large market teams have the most revenue from TV contracts. Who would have ever thought that??

 

But moving to Salt Lake City sounds pretty awesome with that huge regional TV deal they could provide!

[caulfield12]

The Chicago White Sox aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They are 12th in MLB in TV revenue, and only $3M separates them from being in the top ten in all of baseball in that all-important revenue stream. You couple that with the massive revenue-friendly sweetheart lease deal they enjoy, and they won't get a more profitable deal in any another city.

 

This also dispels the myth that the team somehow operates in a "limited resources" environment. The facts as just referenced support quite the contrary.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-t...l-30-mlb-teams/

 

Haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but I feel that Seattle is the "best case scenario" for the media rights deal in Chicago...which would put them somewhere in the vicinity of $118 million per season.

 

The Royals have their deal coming up at roughly the same time as the Sox and Cubs and they're targeting the $75-85 million range, although that could certainly fall back if they struggle with their planned-for rebuild (and players like Gordon, Kennedy or Perez are injured/struggle). In that case, they'd likely be closer to $65-70 million per season.

 

And that's with the Royals having by far the best local television ratings over the last couple of years of any market, with that honor going back and forth with the Cardinals.

 

 

So essentially,the question about relocation becomes one of what market in North American would provide:

 

1) $100+ million per season from the local RSN

2) A publicly financed stadium/facility and impossibly friendly lease agreement

3) Control over parking

 

Hard to imagine Montreal having that type of t.v. money in play. What do the Blue Jays get, btw?

[Lip Man 1]

JR owns 40% of CSN so that is not happening. If anything the Cubs will sell their share in CSN (maybe to Blackhawks?) and create a completely new channel especially if they win a WS between now and 2019. Providers will be cautious due to issues with LA Dodgers but the Cubs will still make a ton of money.

 

It could just be me but it seems that a lot of the people who are proponents of the Sox moving do not live in Chicago and/or do not go to any games. I don't know anyone local who would even consider the Sox moving any sort of a good thing except of course the fans in the far west and north burbs who would love a close ballpark which is never going to happen.

 

Craig Kenney of the Cubs Board of Directors has already publicly stated the Cubs are starting their own TV Network.

 

Mark

[greg775]

Craig Kenney of the Cubs Board of Directors has already publicly stated the Cubs are starting their own TV Network.

 

Mark

Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously.

[Dick Allen]

Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously.

What will be interesting is what the Cubs use to fill time on their station, especially during the offseason. I suppose the Shuffleboard World Championship could be a big draw.

 

The Cubs, I am sure, would love a partner. But it obviously won't be the Bulls. I really doubt Rocky will blow off JR either. Maybe the Bears would be willing to throw some content on their station, but how much?

[Balta1701]

Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously.

The same reason why no one complained when Harry Doyle said G*dD*mn on the air.