Bernstein: Sources say White Sox might be for sale

[captain54]

They would still pay a capital gains tax on the inheritence.

 

.if the estate is placed in trust, the capital gain is from the time the trust grantor dies, to the time the trustee sells off the estate...so the capital gain would be minimal if the trustees sell off shortly after the trust grantors passing

Edited August 14, 2016 by captain54

[Panerista]

There is no way in hell the Cubs are more popular than the Yankees. I think that Chinese water has a bit too much lead in it.

Cubs are definitely not as popular, but their span of influence nationally is as strong as the Yankees thanks to all those years on WGN. Down here, the most popular baseball teams are the two local ones followed by the Cubs by a long shot over the Yankees.

[bmags]

The best thing about this thread is a sale like this would take forever and public news about it would be minimal so it will live forever. Cespedes thread x 100

[Panerista]

The best thing about this thread is a sale like this would take forever and public news about it would be minimal so it will live forever. Cespedes thread x 100

Nailed it. It would take months and potentially an interim owner and all this other crap.

[LVSoxFan]

I don't see JR selling the Sox while he's still alive--he's obviously making money, hence the decade of fail. Just like the Bears, when nothing changes and you wonder why the operation defies all common sense, it's because somebody's making money off the status quo.

 

I read somewhere this summer that JR gets a big tax break if the Sox don't hit a certain attendance number, so that explains why there's no urgency with regard to our pathetic attendance numbers. The Bears sell out regardless so it's no wonder the McCaskeys have offered up fail after fail for years--they have no financial incentive to win and obviously it's not important to them.

 

Clearly the Ricketts weren't fooling around, as they spent the cash and made the moves to turn around the Cubs and turn around they did.

 

Rocky Wirtz also did the same thing.

 

And now you have the two most promising franchises in the city, one with three Stanley Cups and the other set up to be contenders for years.

 

Here we have nothing but failed experiment after failed experiment to go with all the horrible trades/acquisitions that were supposed to be game-changers, skippered by a previously no-experience manager and a president who, as the years stretch into more than a decade, seems more and more like he just got lucky in 2005.

 

What worries me is that the more we suck and the more attendance continues to fall, the only way somebody could be enticed into buying this team is if they got to take them somewhere else.

[Panerista]

What worries me is that the more we suck and the more attendance continues to fall, the only way somebody could be enticed into buying this team is if they got to take them somewhere else.

As a fan, this seems like a legitimate concern, but in reality it won't happen. The Sox have a sweetheart stadium deal in a strong local market with a good TV contract. There's really not a market that would work better for the White Sox, IMHO.

[Lip Man 1]

I read somewhere this summer that JR gets a big tax break if the Sox don't hit a certain attendance number, so that explains why there's no urgency with regard to our pathetic attendance numbers. The Bears sell out regardless so it's no wonder the McCaskeys have offered up fail after fail for years--they have no financial incentive to win and obviously it's not important to them./quote]

 

It's not a tax break but if attendance doesn't reach a certain level (1.8 million or 1.9 million if I remember right) JR doesn't have to pay the ISSA as much money.

 

And again, I think JR and the entire front office wants to win, these are very, VERY competitive people....but they (especially JR) want to win THEIR way, under limitations they have self imposed over the years...from payroll to dealing with certain agents to a philosophy on the minor leagues and managers. And the folks making the decisions simply aren't very good at their jobs.

 

Mark

Edited August 15, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[bmags]

As a fan, this seems like a legitimate concern, but in reality it won't happen. The Sox have a sweetheart stadium deal in a strong local market with a good TV contract. There's really not a market that would work better for the White Sox, IMHO.

 

I also don't feel like the MLB would be so forgiving of a 120 year old franchise to move cities. Theres no geographic footprint they need to hit. As of now it would basically just be a new owners preference for city. And mlb should work to block that. If they want a new city at this point they should just expand.

[Panerista]

I also don't feel like the MLB would be so forgiving of a 120 year old franchise to move cities. Theres no geographic footprint they need to hit. As of now it would basically just be a new owners preference for city. And mlb should work to block that. If they want a new city at this point they should just expand.

Especially when you consider both Chicago franchises can do well when both organizations are winning.

[LittleHurt05]

All I can think about when I read this thread:

 

Homer: "Aww, the Denver Broncos?!"

Marge: "I think owning the Denver Broncos is pretty good."

Homer: "Yeah, yeah."

Marge: "Well, explain to me why it isn't."

Homer: "(sighs) You just don't understand football, Marge."

 

[southsider2k5]

As a fan, this seems like a legitimate concern, but in reality it won't happen. The Sox have a sweetheart stadium deal in a strong local market with a good TV contract. There's really not a market that would work better for the White Sox, IMHO.

 

Fangraphs did research on this not too long ago. It looks like the Sox are 13th of 30 at $51 million a year in TV money.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox are not moving and the idea is absolutely ridiculous. Not only are there franchises with far worse situations (A's & Rays immediately come to mind), but MLB wants to expand in the not too distant future. If someone can name three to four cities out there that are better than a split Chicago, I'd love to hear them. Despite our low ratings today, the potential of the Chicago market is incredible and a new owner would have to be crazy to pass it up to go somewhere like Portland or Vegas.

[bmags]

The Sox are not moving and the idea is absolutely ridiculous. Not only are there franchises with far worse situations (A's & Rays immediately come to mind), but MLB wants to expand in the not too distant future. If someone can name three to four cities out there that are better than a split Chicago, I'd love to hear them. Despite our low ratings today, the potential of the Chicago market is incredible and a new owner would have to be crazy to pass it up to go somewhere like Portland or Vegas.

 

 

I think I have just the guy for you

[chitownsportsfan]

Unfortunately, if you're someone who wants a sale and one ASAP, I think this is on the knob. This stuff isn't happening over night or anything like it. That being said, there a few different people who would play a big role in a potential sale.

 

Dennis Gilbert - Been in and around the White Sox org for a long time. Rick Hahn joined the organization essentially to replace Gilbert when Gilbert shifted out of baseball ops to a leadership role assisting ownership. He's prolific and successful in many different business and industries. Runs an insurance practice and provides leadership for multiple other baseball groups dealing with scouts, agents, etc. He is figured to be representing Reinsdorf and the Sox in finding and grouping the new ownership group. A master negotiator who Reinsdorf trusts.

 

Andrew Berlin - Far and away looked at as the favorite to lead up the ownership group that buys the team. Billionaire owner of a packaging company. He is the owner of the South Bend Cubs and has some involvement in the Cubs new ownership as well. Born, raised and lives in Chicago. Is a Sox fan. Background in Law. This guy is flush with cash and is young as far as sports owners go (56 years old).

 

Sox ownership - When it sells, they will sell it in its entirety. Reinsdorf and Co. agreed upon this years ago. You can find it on the internet if you google hard enough.

 

Rocky Wirtz - Very little smoke on him but considering where the heresay is coming from, I think the Sox would want him to be involved so there would be a local ownership group to compete with the one that would be headed up by Berlin. At the least, Wirtz will be watching for the potential Sale.

 

How would a decision to sell be handled does JR as the majority partner decide or is there a board process to get a sale approved?

[Dick Allen]

How would a decision to sell be handled does JR as the majority partner decide or is there a board process to get a sale approved?

It's JR's call 100%. No other shareholder has any rights, and if he died, the executor of his will gets the call. No one else.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

It's JR's call 100%. No other shareholder has any rights, and if he died, the executor of his will gets the call. No one else.

 

In a formal sense, or an informal sense? I mean, are you saying that if JR decides to sell the team, all of the board and minority owners would get no say at all, and it wouldn't come before the board for a vote?

[Dick Allen]

In a formal sense, or an informal sense? I mean, are you saying that if JR decides to sell the team, all of the board and minority owners would get no say at all, and it wouldn't come before the board for a vote?

Yes.

 

In fact, the White Sox Board of Directors keeps getting smaller. When a board members dies or sells off, they do not get replaced. JR could sell the team tomorrow to anyone and his partners would have no say. All of his partners could want to sell tomorrow and JR can still say no.

 

 

There was a time before they won the WS where several thought selling and setting up their estates for when they die was the play. After they won, most of them shifted and thought their heirs would love being part of owning a team and all that comes with it.

 

 

I think his son Michael is the executor. I am thinking if it was his wife, it would be a guaranteed sell. Michael was the one who was quoted it depended on the day whether he would sell or not, making it seem like his call. I do know somebody who knows him, and at least as of a few years ago, despite whatever has been said in the media, Michael would love a crack at his dad's role with the White Sox, and although much would probably be run the same, there would be differences. Maybe that has changed with his Bulls job, but I doubt it.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Dick - can you elaborate on these:

"There was a time before they won the WS where several thought selling and setting up their estates for when they die was the play. After they won, most of them shifted and thought their heirs would love being part of owning a team and all that comes with it."

 

Is this referring to other partners or JR's family?

[Dick Allen]

Dick - can you elaborate on these:

"There was a time before they won the WS where several thought selling and setting up their estates for when they die was the play. After they won, most of them shifted and thought their heirs would love being part of owning a team and all that comes with it."

 

Is this referring to other partners or JR's family?

Other partners. Several wanted out. A few are getting way up there in age, but I think the title changed their minds. There was a quote by one in the article I read about it saying the ownership structure of many of the other teams was making it hard to compete and that was 2003 or 2004, then they won it all. They can get out and sell their shares, but it is not nearly what they would get if the team was sold.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Other partners. Several wanted out. A few are getting way up there in age, but I think the title changed their minds. There was a quote by one in the article I read about it saying the ownership structure of many of the other teams was making it hard to compete and that was 2003 or 2004, then they won it all. They can get out and sell their shares, but it is not nearly what they would get if the team was sold.

 

So when they are dying their shares are just going to a trust, but there is no active representative of the original partners interest at their meetings. Is that right?

[Lip Man 1]

In a formal sense, or an informal sense? I mean, are you saying that if JR decides to sell the team, all of the board and minority owners would get no say at all, and it wouldn't come before the board for a vote?

 

That is my understanding. It's JR's call... it's written into his contract. The other board members the other minority owners have zero say in the matter.

 

Mark

[Dick Allen]

So when they are dying their shares are just going to a trust, but there is no active representative of the original partners interest at their meetings. Is that right?

The shares go to their heirs, and they do with them what they want. If they sell them JR has the right of first refusal.

[The Ginger Kid]

The shares go to their heirs, and they do with them what they want. If they sell them JR has the right of first refusal.

 

This is true. I'm friends with the son of a minority owner and he confirms.

 

[bmags]

The shares go to their heirs, and they do with them what they want. If they sell them JR has the right of first refusal.

 

Thanks this is what I was looking for.

[Thad Bosley]

I read somewhere this summer that JR gets a big tax break if the Sox don't hit a certain attendance number, so that explains why there's no urgency with regard to our pathetic attendance numbers. The Bears sell out regardless so it's no wonder the McCaskeys have offered up fail after fail for years--they have no financial incentive to win and obviously it's not important to them./quote]

 

It's not a tax break but if attendance doesn't reach a certain level (1.8 million or 1.9 million if I remember right) JR doesn't have to pay the ISSA as much money.

 

And again, I think JR and the entire front office wants to win, these are very, VERY competitive people....but they (especially JR) want to win THEIR way, under limitations they have self imposed over the years...from payroll to dealing with certain agents to a philosophy on the minor leagues and managers. And the folks making the decisions simply aren't very good at their jobs.

 

Mark

Two huge disconnects with this observation:

 

a.) Name one other owner and front office that doesn't want to win and who are not a collective bunch of "very, VERY competitive people"

 

...and...

 

b.) How is "THEIR" way been working out for them? Seen any trips to the postseason lately? At what point do they self assess "THEIR" approach and realize it is a LOSING one, and then change course to try and win in a different way. More of "THEIR" approach will continue to result in more of what we've seen for quite a few years now.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Thad Bosley