Bernstein: Sources say White Sox might be for sale

[BaseballNick]

The same reason why no one complained when Harry Doyle said G*dD*mn on the air.

 

[Lip Man 1]

Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously.

 

I asked Bob Grim the Sox Director of Broadcast Operations that same question a few years ago. Here is what he said:

 

ML: Have you thought about starting a regional type network for example like the St. Louis Cardinals have?

 

BG: “The issue there is that a lot of the area cable operations just don’t want to take on a channel that’s just going to show ballgames especially if they have to charge a premium rate for it.”

 

“And the issue we have with a regional radio network is that a lot of the “mom and pop” stations that used to be around and aired Sox games in the past just don’t exist anymore. They’ve all been bought up by national corporations and they simply program via satellite from Dallas or Chicago or someplace. The stations simply don’t want to have to pay someone even though it’s probably not a lot, to run the board and insert commercials between innings and such.”

 

ML: Well taking it a step further have the Sox ever had any discussions about starting their own TV network a la the Yankees YES Network? I mean Jerry Reinsdorf owns the Sox, he owns the Bulls and he has a good relationship with the Wirtz Family, they both built the United Center. That gives you three major sports and you don’t have to play second fiddle to the Cubs anymore.

 

BG: “I’ve never personally been involved in any discussions like that but I think it probably has been talked about. Even with those three teams that you mentioned Mark, we’d still have an awful lot of time to fill. You’re talking about 24 hours a day, seven days a week.”

 

“Right now to be honest the Sox simply don’t have the amount of video, classic games and stuff that could be used to do something like that. We’re getting closer though, major league baseball now requires all teams to tape every game and send the copy to New York where they archive it for us. So as time goes on we’ll be getting more and more material that we could use if something like this happens but now unlike the Yankees, we just don’t have material from the 20’s or 30’s that we could use say as a documentary to help fill time. When Jerry and his group took over in January 1981, they looked and any material that the Sox may have had was gone. No one knows where it went or who got it.”

 

----------

 

Over the years I've been told by a number of folks both in the Sox organization and outside of it that no one really knows for sure why the Sox don't have a lot of their history. Rich King when he worked at WGN told me they didn't have much on the Sox in their library before 1983. Mike Veeck told me that contrary to rumors, his Dad did not take all that material when he sold the team. I did read a story years ago where when WGN moved into their studios on Bradley Place in 1962 they threw out all those thousands of feet of film they had shot during the 1950's. The story quoted the news director at the time on that...nobody knew it would be wanted or worth anything back then. Jeff Szynal who runs the scoreboard and is basically in charge of Sox historical material told me when he came on-board in 1984 he did a search to see what the Sox had. He found some film reels but they had deteriorated to the point where they couldn't be used, transferred or refurbished.

 

I've been doing my best over the years to try to help the Sox in this regard from out of my library. Last August I sent them 14 CD's with historic audio game action, interviews, radio commercials etc. that I put together over several years. Bob was most appreciative of it.

 

Mark

Edited August 17, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Doc Edwards Shot]

----------

 

Over the years I've been told by a number of folks both in the Sox organization and outside of it that no one really knows for sure why the Sox don't have a lot of their history. Rich King when he worked at WGN told me they didn't have much on the Sox in their library before 1983. Mike Veeck told me that contrary to rumors, his Dad did not take all that material when he sold the team. I did read a story years ago where when WGN moved into their studios on Bradley Place in 1962 they threw out all those thousands of feet of film they had shot during the 1950's. The story quoted the news director at the time on that...nobody knew it would be wanted or worth anything back then. Jeff Szynal who runs the scoreboard and is basically in charge of Sox historical material told me when he came on-board in 1984 he did a search to see what the Sox had. He found some film reels but they had deteriorated to the point where they couldn't be used, transferred or refurbished.

 

I've been doing my best over the years to try to help the Sox in this regard from out of my library. Last August I sent them 14 CD's with historic audio game action, interviews, radio commercials etc. that I put together over several years. Bob was most appreciative of it.

 

Mark

 

I find the story about WGN to be completely believable.

 

Decades ago, there was less emphasis on preserving and archiving historical audio and film. It happened A LOT in the music world where lots of great stuff was thrown away or allowed to deteriorate due to neglect. It just didn't occur to those people at the time that preservation was something that should be done.

 

[Lip Man 1]

I find the story about WGN to be completely believable.

 

Decades ago, there was less emphasis on preserving and archiving historical audio and film. It happened A LOT in the music world where lots of great stuff was thrown away or allowed to deteriorate due to neglect. It just didn't occur to those people at the time that preservation was something that should be done.

 

Plus Doc as someone who worked in the South in TV for 12 years, unless you have a climate controlled warehouse / building to store these in, they will break down. Back then WGN nor anybody that I know of was going to make that kind of investment.

 

Mark

[GreenSox]

I don't think JR's a bad owner in the sense he's too cheap...he's had a mid-range budget most of the time, which is reasonable. He's had some peculiarities, but I don't see that as a problem.

 

What is a problem is that he's stuck by a front office that simply hasn't gotten the job done for many years.

[soxforlife05]

I don't think JR's a bad owner in the sense he's too cheap...he's had a mid-range budget most of the time, which is reasonable. He's had some peculiarities, but I don't see that as a problem.

 

What is a problem is that he's stuck by a front office that simply hasn't gotten the job done for many years.

 

JR is definitely cheap. Isn't Abreu our biggest contract ever? It was only 68 mill. That's A's, Indians, Pirates, and Royals territory. Won't get it done going forward and people are just going to collectively start tuning this team out if it does continue. Front office is delusional.

Edited August 17, 2016 by soxforlife05

[caulfield12]

JR is definitely cheap. Isn't Abreu our biggest contract ever? It was only 68 mill. That's A's, Indians, Pirates, and Royals territory. Won't get it done going forward and people are just going to collectively start tuning this teaming if it does. Front office is delusional.

 

Gordon was $72 million guaranteed, and Ian Kennedy another $70 million.

 

So that's two bigger than Abreu out of the smallest local t.v. market in MLB.

 

[Kyyle23]

Gordon was $72 million guaranteed, and Ian Kennedy another $70 million.

 

So that's two bigger than Abreu out of the smallest local t.v. market in MLB.

 

Sox offered Gordon more supposedly, and Kennedy isn't exactly a glowing example of why the sox should be spending big bucks.

[soxforlife05]

Sox offered Gordon more supposedly, and Kennedy isn't exactly a glowing example of why the sox should be spending big bucks.

 

If the front office wasn't such a massive fail with player development I would agree with you. But it's absolutely necessary if they are going to go for it. I fully expect it to be another half-assed attempt at contending this offseason though.

[ewokpelts]

Why don't the Sox start THEIR own network. Seriously.

They did. TWICE. It's just that one was scrapped too early. Who do you think set up CSN-Chicago? The tribsters were more than happy keeping the FSN/CLTV split on cable, and Bill Wirtz was Bill Wirtz.

 

[ewokpelts]

I asked Bob Grim the Sox Director of Broadcast Operations that same question a few years ago. Here is what he said:

 

ML: Have you thought about starting a regional type network for example like the St. Louis Cardinals have?

 

BG: “The issue there is that a lot of the area cable operations just don’t want to take on a channel that’s just going to show ballgames especially if they have to charge a premium rate for it.”

 

“And the issue we have with a regional radio network is that a lot of the “mom and pop” stations that used to be around and aired Sox games in the past just don’t exist anymore. They’ve all been bought up by national corporations and they simply program via satellite from Dallas or Chicago or someplace. The stations simply don’t want to have to pay someone even though it’s probably not a lot, to run the board and insert commercials between innings and such.”

 

ML: Well taking it a step further have the Sox ever had any discussions about starting their own TV network a la the Yankees YES Network? I mean Jerry Reinsdorf owns the Sox, he owns the Bulls and he has a good relationship with the Wirtz Family, they both built the United Center. That gives you three major sports and you don’t have to play second fiddle to the Cubs anymore.

 

BG: “I’ve never personally been involved in any discussions like that but I think it probably has been talked about. Even with those three teams that you mentioned Mark, we’d still have an awful lot of time to fill. You’re talking about 24 hours a day, seven days a week.”

 

“Right now to be honest the Sox simply don’t have the amount of video, classic games and stuff that could be used to do something like that. We’re getting closer though, major league baseball now requires all teams to tape every game and send the copy to New York where they archive it for us. So as time goes on we’ll be getting more and more material that we could use if something like this happens but now unlike the Yankees, we just don’t have material from the 20’s or 30’s that we could use say as a documentary to help fill time. When Jerry and his group took over in January 1981, they looked and any material that the Sox may have had was gone. No one knows where it went or who got it.”

 

----------

 

Over the years I've been told by a number of folks both in the Sox organization and outside of it that no one really knows for sure why the Sox don't have a lot of their history. Rich King when he worked at WGN told me they didn't have much on the Sox in their library before 1983. Mike Veeck told me that contrary to rumors, his Dad did not take all that material when he sold the team. I did read a story years ago where when WGN moved into their studios on Bradley Place in 1962 they threw out all those thousands of feet of film they had shot during the 1950's. The story quoted the news director at the time on that...nobody knew it would be wanted or worth anything back then. Jeff Szynal who runs the scoreboard and is basically in charge of Sox historical material told me when he came on-board in 1984 he did a search to see what the Sox had. He found some film reels but they had deteriorated to the point where they couldn't be used, transferred or refurbished.

 

I've been doing my best over the years to try to help the Sox in this regard from out of my library. Last August I sent them 14 CD's with historic audio game action, interviews, radio commercials etc. that I put together over several years. Bob was most appreciative of it.

 

Mark

When was this interview? It's horribly outdated. The Sox have a 20-25% stake in CSN Chicago, and Jerry's combine dholdings make him a majority voice in the network. And he put in charge Jim Corno, who he hired to run sportsvision(and later the dolan owned sportschannel and fsn-chicago).

 

Oh, and when the cubs open their own network(with or with out Comcast as a partner), jerry has right of first refusal on the sale of the cubs' stake in CSN-Chicago.

 

He pretty much owns his own network.

 

[caulfield12]

When was this interview? It's horribly outdated. The Sox have a 20-25% stake in CSN Chicago, and Jerry's combine dholdings make him a majority voice in the network. And he put in charge Jim Corno, who he hired to run sportsvision(and later the dolan owned sportschannel and fsn-chicago).

 

Oh, and when the cubs open their own network(with or with out Comcast as a partner), jerry has right of first refusal on the sale of the cubs' stake in CSN-Chicago.

 

He pretty much owns his own network.

 

Essentially it would be 50% Sox/Bulls, 25% Blackhawks and 25% CSN/NBC Universal unless they can sell off that 20% share in an advantageous way.

 

Right now, the prospects for the Sox and Bulls in 2019 don't look so great...hard to say with the Blackhawks, but they will also theoretically be in the rebuilding stage three seasons from now.

[ewokpelts]

The way the story went, JR wanted the stadium downtown and the city would only give him the deal he wanted if he rebuilt across the street. Thats how Jerry got his sweetheart deal.

Jim Thompson and Harold Washington made a deal that ensured that any state funded park(like the one that was built) would not only be in Chicago, but at 35th and Shields. This was brokered in 1987, less than a year after the Addison stadium referendum failed at the polls.

 

The deal was signed on the field.

 

Jerry's contract negotiation skills are what got the sox the sweetheart deal.

[ewokpelts]

They were on board with letting the team move to St Pete 30 years ago. The MLB owners are not going to stand in the way of any other owner being able to make money, unless of course it cuts into theirs.

And the landscape has changed considerably since then. The sox were bought for $20 million in 1981. They MAKE $50 million in local cable rights PER YEAR now. They get another $46 million in national tv rights money.

AND the recent MLB Advanced Media /Disney deal of a BILLION dollars for just a THIRD of MLBam's BamTech nets the sox a cool 33 million. For a 1/30th stake in a third of a media company spun off from another profitable media company.

 

 

The money is there.

[ewokpelts]

Essentially it would be 50% Sox/Bulls, 25% Blackhawks and 25% CSN/NBC Universal unless they can sell off that 20% share in an advantageous way.

 

Right now, the prospects for the Sox and Bulls in 2019 don't look so great...hard to say with the Blackhawks, but they will also theoretically be in the rebuilding stage three seasons from now.

More like 60% Jerry, assuming Comcast had an equal share in 2005. And why do you insist that team performance has anything to do with tv contract? The Astros got 75 million when they were losing 100 games regularly. The Padres got 65 million when they are the padres. And of course the Angels get 125 million despite their s***ty ratings(which the sox are below in 2015, but the angels have historically drawn poorly on tv).

[caulfield12]

And the landscape has changed considerably since then. The sox were bought for $20 million in 1981. They MAKE $50 million in local cable rights PER YEAR now. They get another $46 million in national tv rights money.

AND the recent MLB Advanced Media /Disney deal of a BILLION dollars for just a THIRD of MLBam's BamTech nets the sox a cool 33 million. For a 1/30th stake in a third of a media company spun off from another profitable media company.

 

 

The money is there.

 

Sure, but teams like the Mariners are earning $70 million more before the season even begins.

 

Minimum, the White Sox would have to be in the $150 million range and probably closer to $160-165 million if they choose to spend themselves into contention (as a strategy). Thry'd have to repeat the 14-15 offseason (but actually be right on each player they targeted) in a market with 1/3rd the talent and twice as much competition.

 

The money has always been there, accompanied by the fear of making a mistake on a big contract of over $100 million. Like it or not, that's the going rate for a middle of the order hitter in his prime.

Edited August 20, 2016 by caulfield12

[ewokpelts]

Sure, but teams like the Mariners are earning $70 million more before the season even begins.

 

Minimum, the White Sox would have to be in the $150 million range and probably closer to $160-165 million if they choose to spend themselves into contention (as a strategy). Thry'd have to repeat the 14-15 offseason (but actually be right on each player they targeted) in a market with 1/3rd the talent and twice as much competition.

 

The money has always been there, accompanied by the fear of making a mistake on a big contract of over $100 million. Like it or not, that's the going rate for a middle of the order hitter in his prime.

And the sox don't play in a small market like Seattle. They make more in sponsorships and corporate sales than the moroners. Not to mention the tv deal was brokered in 1998/2004. It was above average then.

[caulfield12]

More like 60% Jerry, assuming Comcast had an equal share in 2005. And why do you insist that team performance has anything to do with tv contract? The Astros got 75 million when they were losing 100 games regularly. The Padres got 65 million when they are the padres. And of course the Angels get 125 million despite their s***ty ratings(which the sox are below in 2015, but the angels have historically drawn poorly on tv).

 

The only difference is the Astros had the best farm system in baseball as thry entered that new deal.

They weren't expected to make the playoffs until 2016, they actually made it one year early.

 

The Angels seemed like they would be a contender every season and had the best young player in the history of baseball...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

As a poster stated earlier, cross Andrew Berlin off the list. Converting his kids,from Sox fans to Cubs fans? That should bring DCFS into the picture.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...824-column.html

[caulfield12]

That's what happens when you have the #1 farm system in baseball.

 

Fans, even civilians like Andrew Berlin, get super-motivated to jump on board. Meanwhile, the Sox ship is foundering on the rocks because JR was unwilling to sell to someone willing to put 5X as much effort into running things. We hear from JR once a year, if lucky. With Berlin, he's super hands on and gives instantaneous feedback to his customers in South Bend. Some of that would change as a big league owner, but not the vision and commitment.

 

It's also yet another reason Cubs' prospects are excelling while we're seemingly treading water at best.

 

Near-sighted.

[Dick Allen]

That's what happens when you have the #1 farm system in baseball.

 

Fans, even civilians like Andrew Berlin, get super-motivated to jump on board. Meanwhile, the Sox ship is foundering on the rocks because JR was unwilling to sell to someone willing to put 5X as much effort into running things. We hear from JR once a year, if lucky. With Berlin, he's super hands on and gives instantaneous feedback to his customers in South Bend. Some of that would change as a big league owner, but not the vision and commitment.

 

It's also yet another reason Cubs' prospects are excelling while we're seemingly treading water at best.

 

Near-sighted.

Jump on the Cubs bangwagon, assuming you are a civilian. I don't think anyone will miss you.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm confused, was Berlin actually a Sox fan growing up or did he become a token one when became a limited partner?

[caulfield12]

Jump on the Cubs bangwagon, assuming you are a civilian. I don't think anyone will miss you.

 

I think you have been watching too many blue movies...besides, you are the one who keeps on praising them for attendance/support compared to Sox and Indians' fans.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by caulfield12

[Y2Jimmy0]

That's what happens when you have the #1 farm system in baseball.

 

Fans, even civilians like Andrew Berlin, get super-motivated to jump on board. Meanwhile, the Sox ship is foundering on the rocks because JR was unwilling to sell to someone willing to put 5X as much effort into running things. We hear from JR once a year, if lucky. With Berlin, he's super hands on and gives instantaneous feedback to his customers in South Bend. Some of that would change as a big league owner, but not the vision and commitment.

 

It's also yet another reason Cubs' prospects are excelling while we're seemingly treading water at best.

 

Near-sighted.

 

 

What?

[LittleHurt05]

I'm confused, was Berlin actually a Sox fan growing up or did he become a token one when became a limited partner?

 

That whole article to me read like a business man choosing investments, nothing to do with real fandom.