Dave Kaplan reports Kenny Williams holding back Rick Hahn

[Lip Man 1]

http://wgnradio.com/2016/08/20/the-beat-fu...roster-shuffle/

 

I went on WGN to talk about this. I come in at 17:35 if anyone cares.

 

Enjoyed listening to it and learned a few things I didn't know. Example that getting Melky was Williams' deal not Hahn's.

 

Mark

 

[kitekrazy]

http://wgnradio.com/2016/08/20/the-beat-fu...roster-shuffle/

 

I went on WGN to talk about this. I come in at 17:35 if anyone cares.

 

Thanks! Listen to it.

 

[tray]

I don't care if KW and Hahn stay, just as long as they hire a different group of people to evaluate talent and make more sound Draft choices and trade suggestions.

 

As far as not being in the playoffs more than twice since they won it all, please.... This has been a much tougher Division than say, the National League Central and who cares if a team makes it but then gets swept four games in a row? LOL. I'd rather not make the playoffs than suffer that kind of humiliation.

Edited August 23, 2016 by miracleon35th

[Kyyle23]

I don't care if KW and Hahn stay, just as long as they hire a different group of people to evaluate talent and make more sound Draft choices and trade suggestions.

 

As far as not being in the playoffs more than twice since they won it all, please.... This has been a much tougher Division than say, the National League Central and who cares if a team makes it but then gets swept four games in a row? LOL. I'd rather not make the playoffs than suffer that kind of humiliation.

 

So you want the president and GM to hire people to make President and GM decisions

 

 

And they just hired Hostetler

[southsider2k5]

I don't care if KW and Hahn stay, just as long as they hire a different group of people to evaluate talent and make more sound Draft choices and trade suggestions.

 

As far as not being in the playoffs more than twice since they won it all, please.... This has been a much tougher Division than say, the National League Central and who cares if a team makes it but then gets swept four games in a row? LOL. I'd rather not make the playoffs than suffer that kind of humiliation.

 

They have done that over the last few years with both the hire of Hostetler and in Latin America with Marco Paddy.

[Lip Man 1]

I don't care if KW and Hahn stay, just as long as they hire a different group of people to evaluate talent and make more sound Draft choices and trade suggestions.

 

As far as not being in the playoffs more than twice since they won it all, please.... This has been a much tougher Division than say, the National League Central and who cares if a team makes it but then gets swept four games in a row? LOL. I'd rather not make the playoffs than suffer that kind of humiliation.

 

I don't agree. Making the playoffs even if you get blown out in the Wild Card game to say nothing of if you advance further along, still means you had a good enough season to actually get there.

 

To me it beats going to the golf course the first week of October because the team fell flat on their faces yet again.

 

Mark

[iamshack]

Well it's interesting now that Melky has been performing well over the long run now but Hahn didn't think it was the financially prudent thing to do. He thought they could get similar production for lesser cost (whether it be money or prospects) and KW thought the Sox were very close and Melky was the last piece they needed. Although I can't find them now, Hahn had some weird comments in the media after Melky was signed. Something like, "I never knew we had the money to do this." Kind of a weird comment from the GM.

Yeah, I remember him saying he told Melky's agent that he didn't know how they would possibly afford to sign him but that they wanted to know if he was interested in coming to the White Sox, just in case...they were odd comments for certain.

 

 

 

Here it is:

 

The White Sox could have stopped with Samardzija and Robertson, but the splashy additions to the pitching staff led to a jump in tickets sales — they sold nearly 1,000 season tickets in the days after the deals — motivated Reinsdorf to expand the team's budget in order to sign the Cabrera. “[Cabrera] was always the guy who made most sense for us at the position,” says Hahn. The White Sox had long coveted Cabrera, but early on in the negotiations, it seemed that the one-time All-Star outfielder was somewhat lukewarm about signing with the Sox. On the runway in San Diego heading back to Chicago, Hahn sent Cabrera’s agent, Peter Greenberg, a message that said, “I don’t know how we would pay for this, but I hope that Melky at least sees how we fit and why we want him.”

Edited August 23, 2016 by iamshack

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yeah, I remember him saying he told Melky's agent that he didn't know how they would possibly afford to sign him but that they wanted to know if he was interested in coming to the White Sox, just in case...they were odd comments for certain.

 

 

 

Here it is:

 

 

Hahn made a comment at the time about something he learned in law school. When you get an answer that you want that you aren't expecting, just turn around and leave the room. Basically, JR told him to sign the deal and instead of clarifying and asking more about it, Hahn said "thanks" and walked away. It's actually kind of funny the way he explained it.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Girl I went to college with on FB is volunteer bartending at some Sox event tonight. She said she has no clue of any of the people/players or even how baseball works. Pretty much all us guys are jealous and then she replies to one of the guys "Thanks haha do you know Ken Williams? Cus he is currently at my bar."

 

<_>

 

 

[caulfield12]

Girl I went to college with on FB is volunteer bartending at some Sox event tonight. She said she has no clue of any of the people/players or even how baseball works. Pretty much all us guys are jealous and then she replies to one of the guys "Thanks haha do you know Ken Williams? Cus he is currently at my bar."

 

<_>

 

That might be the ONLY way to get them into "lockstep" before this off-season.

 

Force them to go out and get liquored up every night together until they come up with a coherent AND cohesive plan which they both agree with...since they are supposedly entering the dreaded YEAR 3, and yet there are no signs anything will change, other than the manager, possibly.

[caulfield12]

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...get-it-together

 

This is reassuring.

 

KW: We'll get it together.

 

So basically, the injuries to Petricka and Putnam were enough to blow up the entire season...that's about as lame as Hawk saying the lack of offdays early burned out Albers and Robertson.

[Chicago White Sox]

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...get-it-together

 

This is reassuring.

 

KW: We'll get it together.

 

So basically, the injuries to Petricka and Putnam were enough to blow up the entire season...that's about as lame as Hawk saying the lack of offdays early burned out Albers and Robertson.

Seriously, f*** this organization. Completely ignore the failures of the offense, the fact that we have don't have a 5th starter, or the compete lack of depth everywhere. Yup, it was only bullpen injuries that let us down this year. Glas to hear they'll be "come out swinging", we're clearly just a piece or two away from being perennial contenders.

[COACH612]

I don't agree. Making the playoffs even if you get blown out in the Wild Card game to say nothing of if you advance further along, still means you had a good enough season to actually get there.

 

To me it beats going to the golf course the first week of October because the team fell flat on their faces yet again.

 

Mark

 

Here is where we will agree to disagree. In my opinion, unless a team wins the whole thing, all you did was play some more games than everyone else who did not make the playoffs. No one cares who lost the World Series.

[shipps]

I am not going to overreact to what KW said. It doesnt really mean anything anymore because they can only show me with actions at this point. Make a team that produces Wins and gets into the playoffs and I will be fine. Its really simple... I dont need the logic behind it... I dont need the fluff for the media... I dont need to be able to say I was right... I dont need any one person in the FO to have control... I dont have to see the Kenny sucks ot that Rick sucks or that we need a new owner.... just fix this damn thing,whoever that may be and do it fast.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Where did he say this?

 

 

It was at the time but it always stuck out to me. Like Hahn was stunned that JR said yes to it. Probably on the radio. It was over 2 years ago.

[Dick Allen]

If Rick Hahn is what many want to make him, no power, always gets kyboshed on any idea. Just does as he's told and spins KW's and JR's bad decisions to the media, he isn't nearly as bright and talented as he is made out to be.

 

That's why I think, while I am sure they do not agree any everything, they do not disagree on everything as well. So however you want to make it, all 3 deserve equal blame. If Hahn really has no say so, or very little he has no backbone and should leave his job immediately.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

No one cares who lost the World Series.

 

The fans of the team that lost the world series. Because they knew during game 1, they had a better chance at winning a championship than 28 other teams.

 

Not the mention the attendance boost teams get when they go deep into the playoffs.

 

I'll taking making the playoffs and everything that goes with it (being in contention and playing meaningful games late in the season, the fun of watching my team play in October while everyone else is at home) vs the past few crap seasons we've had with very little to look forward to any year.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Iwritecode

[caulfield12]

I'm shocked neither of them has battled to take credit for Eaton, Q, Sale or Tim Anderson...those are the only big feathers in the proverbial cap the last five years or so.

 

Abreu was clearly scouted by KW and Paddy directly...on multiple occasions.

 

Rodon, at the time, with Aiken and Kolek selected....seemed to be a no-brainer. I doubt even the Cubs would have picked Schwarber there.

[caulfield12]

The fans of the team that lost the world series. Because they knew during game 1, they had a better chance at winning a championship than 28 other teams.

 

Not the mention the attendance boost teams get when they go deep into the playoffs.

 

I'll taking making the playoffs and everything that goes with it (being in contention and playing meaningful games late in the season, the fun of watching my team play in October while everyone else is at home) vs the past few crap seasons we've had with very little to look forward to any year.

 

Not to mention getting there once and coming up short can often serve as a springboard to even more success the following season...just like teams who win can become complacent and rest on their laurels just as easily.

[Dick Allen]

Not to mention getting there once and coming up short can often serve as a springboard to even more success the following season...just like teams who win can become complacent and rest on their laurels just as easily.

Often? 4 times in the last 50 years has the loser of the WS made it to the WS the next year and won. And except for last year's Royals, the other 3 were so complacent and rested on their laurels after then winning, they made it to the WS the year after that.

[Hatchetman]

the owners of the team would be ecstatic to lose the world series: they'd be making a ton of dough.

[Jake]

The way I see it is that the front office is always highly collaborative. There is usually a single person—typically, but not always, the GM—who leads the front office and makes the final call and when quick decisions are necessary, the leader makes them perhaps without consultation of others. But there are many people who have a lot of input. Your GM will not make many good draft picks or international signings without good scouting advice. Once the advice is there, the GM has to sift through it, make risk calculations, etc. But even then, there are other members of the front office like the assistant GM who will play a role in the weighing of risks and benefits. Lots of teams seem to have a "money man" who will play a large role in deciding whether a move is financially prudent. The GM gets the glory and the blame, but both glory and blame may in many cases be an organizational rather than individual failure.

 

Another thing about collaborative work like this is that some try to work towards consensus. Not always in the sense that the final decision is the one each individual would make if he or she were in charge, but that everyone involved contributed and doesn't outright oppose the final decision.

 

So my question has been whether the big picture decisions for the White Sox are really being decided in much of a different way than before Hahn and Kenny were promoted. Beforehand, Hahn could have pushed against Kenny and/or Reinsdorf at times but it wouldn't have been news to anyone because who cares what Assistant GM thinks. But if the decisionmaking structure is unchanged but the people in it have new titles, does it now matter?

 

Of course, maybe the structure has changed and Hahn has much more of a say than in the past. He certainly is taking on some tasks that Kenny did previously, but it's unknown to us if those are really the major decisions or not.

[Dick Allen]

The way I see it is that the front office is always highly collaborative. There is usually a single person—typically, but not always, the GM—who leads the front office and makes the final call and when quick decisions are necessary, the leader makes them perhaps without consultation of others. But there are many people who have a lot of input. Your GM will not make many good draft picks or international signings without good scouting advice. Once the advice is there, the GM has to sift through it, make risk calculations, etc. But even then, there are other members of the front office like the assistant GM who will play a role in the weighing of risks and benefits. Lots of teams seem to have a "money man" who will play a large role in deciding whether a move is financially prudent. The GM gets the glory and the blame, but both glory and blame may in many cases be an organizational rather than individual failure.

 

Another thing about collaborative work like this is that some try to work towards consensus. Not always in the sense that the final decision is the one each individual would make if he or she were in charge, but that everyone involved contributed and doesn't outright oppose the final decision.

 

So my question has been whether the big picture decisions for the White Sox are really being decided in much of a different way than before Hahn and Kenny were promoted. Beforehand, Hahn could have pushed against Kenny and/or Reinsdorf at times but it wouldn't have been news to anyone because who cares what Assistant GM thinks. But if the decisionmaking structure is unchanged but the people in it have new titles, does it now matter?

 

Of course, maybe the structure has changed and Hahn has much more of a say than in the past. He certainly is taking on some tasks that Kenny did previously, but it's unknown to us if those are really the major decisions or not.

I think he has more of a say. He is the one doing most of the communication with other GMs, agents. How much more remains to be seen. It has been reported how his ideas have been rejected, but are they every idea? I doubt it. I'd venture to guess the Sox have done something the last few years that Hahn really wanted and KW and JR weren't so sure.

[Dick Allen]

the owners of the team would be ecstatic to lose the world series: they'd be making a ton of dough.

I don't think anyone is ecstatic to lose the WS.

[Hatchetman]

I don't think anyone is ecstatic to lose the WS.

 

so if they would be less than ecstatic to lose the WS, what would they be to have the fourth-worst record in baseball from 2013-2016?