White Sox vs. the Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics

[flavum]

More likely- Sale 20 wins or Shields 20 losses?

 

I know!

[greg775]

Once again, one of these blowout losses. It's not hyperbole to say we NEVER (okay very very rarely) win a blowout game. But we have these stinkers, often at home, quite often. You have to really love the Cell atmosphere or MLB to buy season tickets the last 3 seasons to this gawd-awful ballclub.

We get two hits off some no name pitcher and Shields gets rocked again. ... Thanks White Sox for being so embarrassing once again some of us want the offseason to get here ASAP.

I hope the fans booed these bums.

[greg775]

It would be nice to see the pen shut them down. Usually the mental midgetness kicks in and they think it's OK to give up runs. So they do and don't get s*** from the manager for doing so.

Hey, many Sox fans on this board wanted a professional, quiet manager to run the club instead of the effective, yet outspoken Ozzie. People in some respects are getting what they asked for.

[GreenSox]

yes, I prefer a manager with Ventura's personality than Guillen's.

Personality isn't the reason for Ventura's limitations as a manager, or was Guillen's personality the real problem with him as manager.

And Ventura isn't the main reason why this organization, top to bottom, is bottom of the barrel.

Edited August 20, 2016 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Hey, many Sox fans on this board wanted a professional, quiet manager to run the club instead of the effective, yet outspoken Ozzie. People in some respects are getting what they asked for.

 

Not nearly as effective in 2007, 2009 or 2011 especially...that said, at least every other year the team was entertaining at least.

 

Maybe if he hadn't been drunk half the time, we really would have seen what he could do were he 100% serious like his first 2-3 years as a manager.

 

As time went by, it became more about him and his family and less about the team.

[Lip Man 1]

James Shields is John Danks; version 2.0

 

A pitcher with an albatross contract who is headed downhill fast.

 

The difference is Danks couldn't help that he got hurt. The Sox knew Shields was losing it fast...yet Kenny Hahn got him anyway.

 

Don't stop now boys!

 

Mark

[GhostofDickeyKerr]

You can always tell when it is a weekend home game, they play like s***. Such a boring old product just like it's owner.

 

Ageist. I'm officially offended.

[Lip Man 1]

Not nearly as effective in 2007, 2009 or 2011 especially...that said, at least every other year the team was entertaining at least.

 

Maybe if he hadn't been drunk half the time, we really would have seen what he could do were he 100% serious like his first 2-3 years as a manager.

 

As time went by, it became more about him and his family and less about the team.

 

Ozzie started to believe his press clippings and got greedy. He quit on the team, wanted out so he could go to Miami and urinated that job down the toilet in one season.

 

Mark

 

[Lip Man 1]

How about we hope Shields gets FIXED

 

At 35? Not Happening. I hear Aerosmith in the background singing "Dream On..."

 

Mark

 

[Jose Abreu]

Why we didn't trade Shields in a huge seller's market when he had some value after a good run is beyond me

[Lip Man 1]

Why we didn't trade Shields in a huge seller's market when he had some value after a good run is beyond me

 

Because the Sox "we're going for it!" LOL. Just like the previous season with Shark.

 

Mark

 

 

 

[kitekrazy]

Because the Sox "we're going for it!" LOL. Just like the previous season with Shark.

 

Mark

 

No, because there is a shortage of gullible GMs.

 

[Dizzy Sox]

Why we didn't trade Shields in a huge seller's market when he had some value after a good run is beyond me

 

I'd like to think we didn't trade Shields during his run of halfway decent starts because, despite of no lack of trying, no one else was stupid enough to take him on. That would at least imply the Sox understood what a mistake they had made by bringing him to the organization and were trying to rectify it.

 

I have zero confidence that's how it played out.

[GreenSox]

Why we didn't trade Shields in a huge seller's market when he had some value after a good run is beyond me

First, I seriously doubt that anyone wanted Shields.

Even if they did, Hahn, a particularly poor talent evaluator, likely thought that Shields really was fixed (a cursory review of his peripherals showed that he wasn't). Plus, Williams and Hahn aren't ones to understand their own failures, so I doubt that they were convinced that the Sox weren't contenders.

 

They certainly should have moved D Rob and Melky. But that would have required some firm footing in the real world...a world in which Hahn and Williams do not reside.

Edited August 20, 2016 by GreenSox

[Lip Man 1]

Just wondering. Does anybody know the last pitcher to lose 20 games in a season and when?

 

Not saying Shields will even get the chance. The Sox will shut him down when he hits 19 losses saying that he's "injured" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more...) and save him the embarrassment (and of course save the front office the embarrassment too...)

 

Mark

[kitekrazy]

Just wondering. Does anybody know the last pitcher to lose 20 games in a season and when?

 

Not saying Shields will even get the chance. The Sox will shut him down when he hits 19 losses saying that he's "injured" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more...) and save him the embarrassment (and of course save the front office the embarrassment too...)

 

Mark

 

As for a Sox pitcher wouldn't it be Wilbur Wood?

 

Mike Maroth for the 2003 Tigers.

 

[Boopa1219]

Just wondering. Does anybody know the last pitcher to lose 20 games in a season and when?

 

Not saying Shields will even get the chance. The Sox will shut him down when he hits 19 losses saying that he's "injured" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more...) and save him the embarrassment (and of course save the front office the embarrassment too...)

 

Mark

 

There have been a total of 499, 20 game losers.

 

The last 20 game loser was Mike Maroth in 2003, he pitched for the Tigers and went 9-21:

5.73 ERA, 1 CG, 193.1 IP, 87 Ks, 50 BBs, 1.453 WHIP, 5.32 FIP, 34 HRA and 0.2 WAR.

 

The best 20 game loser of all time is 1910 Ed Walsh, who pitched for the Sox of course and went 18-20:

1.27 ERA, 33 CG, 7 SO, 369.2 IP, 258 Ks, 61 BBs, 0.820 WHIP, 1.63 FIP, 5 HRA, and 10.9 WAR

Edited August 20, 2016 by Joshua Strong

[soxforlife05]

yes, I prefer a manager with Ventura's personality than Guillen's.

Personality isn't the reason for Ventura's limitations as a manager, or was Guillen's personality the real problem with him as manager.

And Ventura isn't the main reason why this organization, top to bottom, is bottom of the barrel.

 

I'd rather have the team designate a wooden statue as the manager. I'm sure JR would love it because of how much money he will save. Robin is not a leader of men.

Edited August 20, 2016 by soxforlife05

[greg775]

As time went by, it became more about him and his family and less about the team.

How do you know? Maybe he knew players on the lousy teams sucked. At least Ozzie pushed the players and called the team out when it sucked.

 

Ozzie started to believe his press clippings and got greedy. He quit on the team, wanted out so he could go to Miami and urinated that job down the toilet in one season.

 

Mark

Who cares if he quit on that last team with a week to go? That team sucked beyond belief. It's ridiculous to keep repeating the cliche reason to hate Ozzie: that he quit on the team. This is big boy sports. Yeah Ozzie quit on the team. He also made the front office breathe a sigh of relief that they didn't have to fire him; he did it himself. Ozzie Guillen will go down in history as our best manager ever. Case closed. We won the WS with him. And we won it in four games for gawd sakes.

Edited August 20, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/history/managers.jsp

 

Al Lopez and Fielder Jones say hello.

 

That said, Guillen is definitely Top 3-4.

[whitesoxfan99]

I'd like to think we didn't trade Shields during his run of halfway decent starts because, despite of no lack of trying, no one else was stupid enough to take him on. That would at least imply the Sox understood what a mistake they had made by bringing him to the organization and were trying to rectify it.

 

I have zero confidence that's how it played out.

 

Yeah, his run of halfway decent starts was also based entirely around him getting lucky so there aren't many organizations that would have bought into that and the ones that would (like the Diamondbacks) aren't in the postseason chase. With that said, I'm skeptical the Sox were smart enough to realize they should try to move him.

[kitekrazy]

How do you know? Maybe he knew players on the lousy teams sucked. At least Ozzie pushed the players and called the team out when it sucked.

 

 

Who cares if he quit on that last team with a week to go? That team sucked beyond belief. It's ridiculous to keep repeating the cliche reason to hate Ozzie: that he quit on the team. This is big boy sports. Yeah Ozzie quit on the team. He also made the front office breathe a sigh of relief that they didn't have to fire him; he did it himself. Ozzie Guillen will go down in history as our best manager ever. Case closed. We won the WS with him. And we won it in four games for gawd sakes.

 

I still believe he knew the organization was on a downward spiral and philosophies clashed.

 

[greg775]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/history/managers.jsp

 

Al Lopez and Fielder Jones say hello.

 

That said, Guillen is definitely Top 3-4.

Cmon Caulfield. Proof is in the number of rings. Ozzie has a WS ring. We fans probably will never celebrate another WS title in our lifetimes. It's that difficult to complete the deal when you are a small market team.

Edited August 20, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Cmon Caulfield. Proof is in the number of rings. Ozzie has a WS ring. We fans probably will never celebrate another WS title in our lifetimes. It's that difficult to complete the deal when you are a small market team.

 

You can make a poll.

 

Guillen will get 5-10% of the vote.

 

Al Lopez will win. You keep forgetting that there was only one playoff team from the AL each year, and it was invariably the Yankees at that time.

 

He (Lopez) was much more consistent...almost all of his teams were good to near great. Guillen had 2007, 2009 and 2011 on his record, and the ignominious way in which he parted way with JR, one of his biggest cheerleaders.

 

Ask Lip to rate them 1-5.

 

He's also the only manager who spent the majority of his career managing the Sox in the HoF. Lip might even go with LaRussa or Tanner being better based on their accomplishments after leaving Chicago.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/10-things-i-d...t-chuck-tanner/

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by caulfield12

[Saufley]

James Shields is John Danks; version 2.0

 

A pitcher with an albatross contract who is headed downhill fast.

 

The difference is Danks couldn't help that he got hurt. The Sox knew Shields was losing it fast...yet Kenny Hahn got him anyway.

 

Don't stop now boys!

 

Mark

 

What an awful pickup. IF the Sox do a total rebuild it better not be this FO group that does it.