New Ballpark Name

[Doc Edwards Shot]

Doc:

 

Maybe another way of putting it with what I posted earlier is this. (And I know this is a generalization). Most Sox fans don not believe this organization is capable of sustained success. They have lost confidence in them and they have lost credibility for a number of reasons.

 

Some say that makes Sox fans bad, I say it makes them realistic and skeptical with good reason. Change those dynamics and I'm sure things will be fine...continue on the path they are on now and it's going to get worse.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

You're right about the chronic disbelief from the Sox fanbase that this organization is mostly a flash in the pan from year to year. Per your fact that the Sox are the only one of the old-time 16 teams to have never made the playoffs in consecutive years through all of these decades, who wouldn't be skeptical? It makes legitimate sense to wait longer before jumping on the bandwagon.

 

Unfortunately, the Sox franchise doesn't have the longtime credibility or track record to warrant such unconditional faith. So if you look at it that way, perhaps what I said about winning isn't entirely correct. One season of winning here or there isn't enough, there must be some consistent winning over a period to seriously affect attendance in a positive way.

[Lip Man 1]

You're right about the chronic disbelief from the Sox fanbase that this organization is mostly a flash in the pan from year to year. Per your fact that the Sox are the only one of the old-time 16 teams to have never made the playoffs in consecutive years through all of these decades, who wouldn't be skeptical? It makes legitimate sense to wait longer before jumping on the bandwagon.

 

Unfortunately, the Sox franchise doesn't have the longtime credibility or track record to warrant such unconditional faith. So if you look at it that way, perhaps what I said about winning isn't entirely correct. One season of winning here or there isn't enough, there must be some consistent winning over a period to seriously affect attendance in a positive way.

 

Doc:

 

I agree with your last statement completely. Excellent summary.

 

At this point it is a long shot they can even post consecutive winning seasons anymore let alone dream about consecutive playoff appearances.

 

Mark

Edited August 26, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Dick Allen]

Doc:

 

I agree with your last statement completely. Excellent summary.

 

At this point it is a long shot they can even post consecutive winning seasons anymore let alone dream about consecutive playoff appearances.

 

Mark

 

Yep. Very doubtful they ever have consecutive winning seasons again.

 

[hi8is]

Comiskey Park by Guaranteed Rate

[Ducksnort]

Yep. Very doubtful they ever have consecutive winning seasons again.

I would rather have Hahn and Kenny say they want to have a sustained period of consecutive winning seasons with the intent on bringing home a WS trophy during at least one of them, rather than them say their only goal is to bring a championship to Chicago. I, and I think a lot of other fans would agree, want a team that built for longevity, not short-lived dominance (such as April 2016).

[Hatchetman]

, is the impact that has on the bottom line of the franchise, as compared to other franchises who don't have as high of a transient fan factor as the White Sox do.

 

Show me your rigorous analysis that leads you to believe this is a fact.

[captain54]

Ugh. I know you are a lost cause here, but for the sake of clarity. What fans want to do is up to the fans. They can do whatever they want to do. What I have posted about over and over and over again, is the impact that has on the bottom line of the franchise, as compared to other franchises who don't have as high of a transient fan factor as the White Sox do. I can't help if it you and a couple of others want to turn that around, internalize it, and make it a personal thing. The fan base is the fan base. The numbers are all there in black and white. Those are facts that can't be disputed. That absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future. Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong.

 

I won't even bother with the irrelevancy of your fan litmus test.

 

You've continually referred to the fans as whiny and complaining…. Pretend that's not what you're insinuating with your comments… but that would be wrong…I'm sorry... that's disrespectful… and uncalled for…

 

Thanks for the lesson though on the how franchises work, the impact of the bottom line, the fan bases and so forth….awesome

 

Maybe someday you'll learn that the respect you dish out, is the respect you've earned...

Edited August 26, 2016 by captain54

[captain54]

Show me your rigorous analysis that leads you to believe this is a fact.

 

I believe the rigorous analysis was "Those are facts that can't be disputed. . Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong."

 

 

[southsider2k5]

You've continually referred to the fans as whiny and complaining…. Pretend that's not what you're insinuating with your comments… but that would be wrong…I'm sorry... that's disrespectful… and uncalled for…

 

Thanks for the lesson though on the how franchises work, the impact of the bottom line, the fan bases and so forth….awesome

 

Maybe someday you'll learn that the respect you dish out, is the respect you've earned...

 

The irony of course being when I hit google, the only person I could find referring to fans as whiny, was you.

[southsider2k5]

Show me your rigorous analysis that leads you to believe this is a fact.

 

Show me yours that it isn't.

[hi8is]

The irony of course being when I hit google, the only person I could find referring to fans as whiny, was you.

poop.

[hi8is]

Show me yours that it isn't.

blah.

[caulfield12]

 

 

What possible indicator do we have...objectively...that Hahn/Williams would be able to make this team a contender with another $25 million per season to spend? It seems logical enough, but there's not much evidence to support it.

 

The best White Sox team in the last 15 years ago had one of, if not the smallest payrolls of any of those teams. If White Sox fans were Cubs-like sheeple attending games oblivious to the dismal results, there would be even less likelihood of changes being made.

 

Look what that pressure did this year in April and early May. Forced Danks off the roster, Rollins out and Anderson up, Latos...of course, it resulted in one of the worst moves of the season in the James Shields acquisition. None of that would have happened had the Sox started their more typical in recent years 10-23 than the opposite.

 

 

 

And even if we had extra money this past offseason, it would have ended up in the pockets of Alex Gordon and not Cespedes or Upton, so we wouldn't be any better off...the situation would objectively be worse because Hahn and KW would keep losing even bigger money bets. The attendance actually lowers their ability to make dumb decisions.

 

And they've shown little sign of wanting to invest more than they are allocated to international free agents under 21...Cuban, Korean, Japanese players, minor league instruction and development, scouting, etc. those are the best ways to improve the final product on the field, not just changing a couple of faces in Paddy and Hostetler.

[Thad Bosley]

Ugh. I know you are a lost cause here, but for the sake of clarity. What fans want to do is up to the fans. They can do whatever they want to do. What I have posted about over and over and over again, is the impact that has on the bottom line of the franchise, as compared to other franchises who don't have as high of a transient fan factor as the White Sox do. I can't help if it you and a couple of others want to turn that around, internalize it, and make it a personal thing. The fan base is the fan base. The numbers are all there in black and white. Those are facts that can't be disputed. That absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future. Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong.

 

I won't even bother with the irrelevancy of your fan litmus test.

Again, and I don't know why this is so hard to understand, but the sweetheart lease deal insulates ownership from poor attendance. You combine those terms with a TV deal that is only $3M away from being in the top ten of baseball, and all of the other revenue streams, and this ball club is more than equipped to be competitive.

[Thad Bosley]

After being insulted and misrepresented many times, yes I made that observation. And as another one who loves to jump in with those kinds of actions, I am not surprised that you again jumped in to try to take another cheap shot.

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification. You insulted another poster but only because you just reached a breaking point, not that you ever insult other posters. Ok, good. For a moment there I thought a double standard might be in play, but clearly it's not.

[captain54]

What possible indicator do we have...objectively...that Hahn/Williams would be able to make this team a contender with another $25 million per season to spend? It seems logical enough, but there's not much evidence to support it.

 

The best White Sox team in the last 15 years ago had one of, if not the smallest payrolls of any of those teams. If White Sox fans were Cubs-like sheeple attending games oblivious to the dismal results, there would be even less likelihood of changes being made.

 

the Indians have worse attendance numbers than the Sox. They have spent $20M or so less than the Sox. They have the 2nd best record in the AL and lead the Central

 

Then we have this:

 

The fan base is the fan base. It absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future.

 

Which maybe inadvertently suggests that the worse your attendance is, and the more transient your fan base is, the better chance the franchise has for success

[captain54]

poop.

 

Caca

 

I can swear better than you!! I win!

 

[hi8is]

Caca

 

I can swear better than you!! I win!

Oh fudge.

[caulfield12]

Shouldn't it be mierda?

[jasonxctf]

Interesting... Us bank paid approx $8.8 million a year for 25 years on their new stadium naming rights with the Vikings.

 

In general do football stadiums get more for naming rights then baseball? Basketball?

[Kyyle23]

Interesting... Us bank paid approx $8.8 million a year for 25 years on their new stadium naming rights with the Vikings.

 

In general do football stadiums get more for naming rights then baseball? Basketball?

 

Probably, because they can get more use out of their fields with other sports and events. Especially indoor stadiums like the Vikings new stadium

[southsider2k5]

Again, and I don't know why this is so hard to understand, but the sweetheart lease deal insulates ownership from poor attendance. You combine those terms with a TV deal that is only $3M away from being in the top ten of baseball, and all of the other revenue streams, and this ball club is more than equipped to be competitive.

 

Except they aren't that high in total revenue.

[southsider2k5]

670 The Score ‏@670TheScore 2h2 hours ago Report: White Sox's new stadium naming rights deal with Guaranteed Rate will net them about $2M annually

 

 

 

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/09/01/rep...ut-2m-annually/

 

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

White Sox get no new money from naming rights deal with Guaranteed Rate

 

The new naming rights deal for the publicly owned stadium where the White Sox play baseball is worth $25.1 million but will deliver no additional money to the team, documents associated with the agreement show.

 

The White Sox will receive only the remaining value of the original contract entered into with U.S. Cellular in 2003, which amounts to $20.4 million. The remaining $4.7 million will go to the state agency that serves as landlord of the ballpark, the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority.

 

The contract that will change the facility's name to Guaranteed Rate Field runs through 2029. If the agreement is extended for a year, the authority would receive $6.4 million in all. The agency can use that money in any way it sees fit, according to general counsel Anthony J. O'Neill, who suggested it may be used to help retire debt.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm sorry, but what happened to this deal being worth $6M+ a year? Am I missing something here?