Dioner Navarro traded to Blue Jays

[Dick Allen]

I said from the one scouting report I read, which is this one:

 

http://www.bluejaysfromaway.com/lansing-le...outing-reports/

 

Don't really see why the attitude is necessary. If you've seen something different, post it. We're all going on speculation. That "try again" stuff is just childish.

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2016/5/11/11...undown-may-9-10

 

Here from this year it says his fastball sits low 90s and can tick up to mid. Same type of source as the one you brought up. Of course this guy isn't a real good prospect, it is for one month of a back up catcher having a horrible season, but I have to ask you a couple things. Why were you so concerned he is rule 5 eligible? If he is decent enough a team would take him there, it makes this trade look even better. And the Sox should have plenty of room on their 40. It also appears your Blue Jays source who has never seen him hit 90 may have not seen him pitch anytime recently.

 

Chances are the guy suck and we never here about him again.

[Blackout Friday]

Hi8is and I accept your apology. Thank you

Great. I enjoy a good debate, but no need for low blows or condescention.

 

Would like to move on.

[Blackout Friday]

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2016/5/11/11...undown-may-9-10

 

Here from this year it says his fastball sits low 90s and can tick up to mid. Same type of source as the one you brought up. Of course this guy isn't a real good prospect, it is for one month of a back up catcher having a horrible season, but I have to ask you a couple things. Why were you so concerned he is rule 5 eligible? If he is decent enough a team would take him there, it makes this trade look even better. And the Sox should have plenty of room on their 40. It also appears your Blue Jays source who has never seen him hit 90 may have not seen him pitch anytime recently.

 

Chances are the guy suck and we never here about him again.

He was an amateur scout who is now a cross checker. So it's possible he hasn't seen him in person for a bit

 

But I trust his opinion nonetheless.

[bmags]

Why are we so concerned about the return here? I'd have happily DFAd Navarro. Worst case scenario would be sending down narvaes

[Dick Allen]

Why are we so concerned about the return here? I'd have happily DFAd Navarro. Worst case scenario would be sending down narvaes

I agree. But it's a guy who will show up next spring who we probably never will remember, or maybe he turns into one of those lefties that makes it to the big leagues, has one decent season or stretch and parlays that into a 5 or 6 year career being a gas can for about 8 teams.

[Blackout Friday]

Why are we so concerned about the return here? I'd have happily DFAd Navarro. Worst case scenario would be sending down narvaes

The best part of it is we got some minor league filler and opened a spot on the 40-man

 

 

[Hatchetman]

I'm just glad he's gone. Toronto wasn't going to give anything of value for him, obviously. Who cares?

[Blackout Friday]

I'm just glad he's gone. Toronto wasn't going to give anything of value for him, obviously. Who cares?

Watching the Toronto broadcast last night, it was like the return of the messiah.

 

[bmags]

Maybe he will be but he was actively undermining Rodons dev kmo

[Nokona]

I love f***ing my wife too bro

[caulfield12]

You can throw 93-95 while being bad too? Either way, he's having great success this year whether he throws 86-89 or 93-95. Hahn at least got a guy with minor upside for the worst player in baseball.

 

With how many pitchers are throwing 95+ right now, 92-94 is almost more dangerous than in the upper 80's used to be because there are so many good arms now...

 

As far as that velocity goes, just depends on movement and location. Matt Thornton fell from 96-98 into the mid to low 90s and that was the death of him. Well, that and the bomb Thome hit off him second half 2010...along with the All-Star game that year.

 

We've all seen Nate Jones get lit up a lot in that same 96-98 range...due to that hitch in his motion and how he makes it easier to identify pitch type than others who are much more deceptive.

[Dick Allen]

10 k/9 innings 0.94 WHIP, 42 hits allowed in 58 2/3 innings. Yeah, Nate Jones gets lit up a lot, and it is all due to that hitch in his motion, he just isn't deceptive enough.

 

.197/.251/.319 splits against Nate Jones. Yes a .570 OPS.

 

One pitcher in the AL has face as many hitters as Jones and has a lower BAA. One.

 

He sucks.

 

 

LOL

 

To save time, I will post Caulfields response

 

OK, fine. Make him the closer. He will probably go 60 for 60 in save opportunities because he is so great. Robin Ventura, Gordon Beckham, Ubaldo Jimenez...

Edited August 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[hi8is]

Hi8is and I accept your apology. Thank you

This thread should be retitled to: Unnecessary Stupidity.

[hi8is]

Navarro sucked(sucks) and is no longer on the roster. That's a plus by itself. The return, that we shouldn't have even expected, throws with his left hand and has some decent numbers. No one's claiming he's Sandy Koufax but he's more interesting than a 28 year old org player. I'll call it a win for the Sox.

IMO, It's also a good thing that we get to see more of Narvaez. Hopefully we sign Ramos in the offseason with Narvaez serving as backup. Or if they go the rebuild route, they pair him with a young trade acquisition.

[caulfield12]

10 k/9 innings 0.94 WHIP, 42 hits allowed in 58 2/3 innings. Yeah, Nate Jones gets lit up a lot, and it is all due to that hitch in his motion, he just isn't deceptive enough.

 

.197/.251/.319 splits against Nate Jones. Yes a .570 OPS.

 

One pitcher in the AL has face as many hitters as Jones and has a lower BAA. One.

 

He sucks.

 

 

LOL

 

To save time, I will post Caulfields response

 

OK, fine. Make him the closer. He will probably go 60 for 60 in save opportunities because he is so great. Robin Ventura, Gordon Beckham, Ubaldo Jimenez...

 

 

Statistically, Jones Burdi and Jennings are the three best relievers (assuming Robertson's gone).

 

I'm sure SoxTalkers are champing at the bit for Nate Jones to be made closer. How many blown saves does he have? You seem to have left that somewhat important piece out.

 

Well, it probably doesn't matter much because the White Sox have won almost all of his blown saves. Oops, that's Robertson. They've really been terrible in all the games Jones and Albers have blown.

 

Might want to rethink that position. Next thing you'll be arguing that Jennings is the best left handed reliever in baseball despite all evidence to the contrary.

[Dick Allen]

Statistically, Jones Burdi and Jennings are the three best relievers (assuming Robertson's gone).

 

I'm sure SoxTalkers are champing at the bit for Nate Jones to be made closer. How many blown saves does he have? You seem to have left that somewhat important piece out.

 

Well, it probably doesn't matter much because the White Sox have won almost all of his blown saves. Oops, that's Robertson. They've really been terrible in all the games Jones and Albers have blown.

 

Might want to rethink that position. Next thing you'll be arguing that Jennings is the best left handed reliever in baseball despite all evidence to the contrary.

Blown saves and save percentage for a set up guy is probably the most ridiculous stat to ever look at and come to a conclusion.

 

The fact is Jones does not get lit up a lot like you claimed. He apparently is pretty deceptive since major league hitters strike out a lot vs. his offerings, and they don't square much up. Wrong again Caulfield. Try another sport. You don't understand anything about this one. And if anything, you are getting more ridiculous by the day.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[GreenSox]

Jones is good. the top pens have several Jones'.

[caulfield12]

Blown saves and save percentage for a set up guy is probably the most ridiculous stat to ever look at and come to a conclusion.

 

The fact is Jones does not get lit up a lot like you claimed. He apparently is pretty deceptive since major league hitters strike out a lot vs. his offerings, and they don't square much up. Wrong again Caulfield. Try another sport. You don't understand anything about this one.

 

I'll make sure to save this because Nate Jones won't last one full season as a closer with the White Sox.

 

It really doesn't make sense to have three closers (in your idea) in Robertson, Jones and Burdi on a sub .500 team and not trade at least one of them for a position player or payroll relief or both.

Edited August 27, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

I'll make sure to save this because Nate Jones won't last one full season as a closer with the White Sox.

OK. You should realize though that I never said make Jones the closer, although I do think he would be fine there.

 

5th in all of baseball with 25 holds.

 

Oops more facts.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Jose Abreu]

Blown saves and save percentage for a set up guy is probably the most ridiculous stat to ever look at and come to a conclusion.

Honestly... why people cite this stat for non-closers is ridiculous

[elrockinMT]

Nate Jones is fine as the Sox set up man leading to the closer, whoever that may be. We will see and have already been seeing possible bullpen arms for next year

[Lip Man 1]

Statistically, Jones Burdi and Jennings are the three best relievers (assuming Robertson's gone).

 

I'm sure SoxTalkers are champing at the bit for Nate Jones to be made closer. How many blown saves does he have? You seem to have left that somewhat important piece out.

 

Well, it probably doesn't matter much because the White Sox have won almost all of his blown saves. Oops, that's Robertson. They've really been terrible in all the games Jones and Albers have blown.

 

Might want to rethink that position. Next thing you'll be arguing that Jennings is the best left handed reliever in baseball despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

For the record since stats were brought out, Jones has also blown eight saves and been at least partially responsible for five of the 10 losses the Sox have when they took a lead into the 7th inning or later.

 

I think it would be a major mistake for the Sox to think he can close....he's had enough difficult stretches just as the 8th inning guy.

 

If the Sox could get a deeper / better bullpen, I think he'd be fine as a 6th / 7th inning guy...occasionally use him in the 8th inning if you have a big enough lead.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

[Lip Man 1]

Nate Jones is fine as the Sox set up man leading to the closer, whoever that may be. We will see and have already been seeing possible bullpen arms for next year

 

Hopefully you don't mean stiffs like Purke, Turner, Albers, Ynoa and their ilk because I don't want them to be within 500 miles of the Sox roster next season.

 

Mark

Edited August 27, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Dick Allen]

For the record since stats were brought out, Jones has also blown eight saves and been at least partially responsible for five of the 10 losses the Sox have when they took a lead into the 7th inning or later.

 

I think it would be a major mistake for the Sox to think he can close....he's had enough difficult stretches just as the 8th inning guy.

 

If the Sox could get a deeper / better bullpen, I think he'd be fine as a 6th / 7th inning guy...occasionally use him in the 8th inning if you have a big enough lead.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

4 of his blown saves he gave up 0 earned runs. 3 of those 0 runs. One he gave up 1 unearthed. 3 others he gave up 1 run. Hard to expect a 0.00 ERA. Just my opinion

Edited August 27, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

4 of his blown saves he gave up 0 earned runs. 3 of those 0 runs. One he gave up 1 unearthed. 3 others he gave up 1 run. Hard to expect a 0.00 ERA. Just my opinion

 

This is exactly why the save stat is the worst possible stat to judge a set up man by. The vast majority of the time the closer comes in with a clean slate.

 

If Nate Jones comes into a game with the bases loaded and nobody out, gives up a sac fly, and two straight strike outs, he gets a blown save... not the guy whose run scored, even though Nate Jones had a perfect inning. The blown save is just a stupid stat as it relates to anyone but a closer.