Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

[Balta1701]

It's less than ideal but if we are going to hold all of our assets I don't see another way. Do not have farm to acquire big upgrades in this market. Should be clear after 2 years in a row, planting "average" players into below average holes is not equaling much if any return.

I will go in on my gamble as them moving Fulmer this offseason. They've treated him exactly the way they treated all the other guys they moved in previous years and he's basically the only trade chip they have that would interest anyone other than this year's draftees. That "2nd trade" Rick Hahn referred to that will show everyone what they're doing? That's my guess.

[Chicago White Sox]

I will go in on my gamble as them moving Fulmer this offseason. They've treated him exactly the way they treated all the other guys they moved in previous years and he's basically the only trade chip they have that would interest anyone other than this year's draftees. That "2nd trade" Rick Hahn referred to that will show everyone what they're doing? That's my guess.

Then you better pray to God that Shields can pitch like a #4 and not one of the worst starters in baseball history.

[Balta1701]

Then you better pray to God that Shields can pitch like a #4 and not one of the worst starters in baseball history.

I think they'll come up with another veteran pitcher somewhere. They genuinely do have some money to spend - they're about at $100 million ish committed depending on who they actually offer arb to. There's money available to do a Fulmer for NL Slugger close to free agency swap and still go out and do several Rick Hahn Special type signings.

[Dunt]

The relatively fast movers from the 2016 draft class kinda make this whole offseason situation interesting. Offense is definitely first and foremost the thing to fix with the biggest needs being DH, CF, and C. You drastically need an infusion of OBP and SLG to this team. Do you try signing a guy like Edwin Encarnacion, a known asset that brings both, or do you maybe rush Collins up to start DHing next season? I'd rather them sign Encarnacion and let Collins work his way up slowly and maybe come up after the break next season as a catcher. The bullpen should be fine and you should definitely see an improvement if you put Burdi out there to replace Albers. Still think it's worth going after someone like Ra

[Thad Bosley]

The problem is, I have no idea what is possible with Sale or Quintana. They wanted Jackie Bradley Jr. as part of the package. Could they get him in the offseason? But, if I was to trade one of those guys or both, at least part of the return is established major league players. Melky, Frazier, and Lawrie playing for a contract usually works to the teams advantage during the season. They need a starting catcher. Another OF who can hit, maybe a 1B that can at least make Abreu DH once in while. Another reliever or 2. Maybe another back end starter to throw into the mix. And the position players they get, have to be able to hit. It's a lot, but IMO if they are really going to go for it, they have to really go for it. Not hoping someone comes through. They have to be prepared for someone to get hurt or to suck unexpectedly. But trading everybody and getting prospects can set you up to be bad for a really long time. It's not like these other rebuilt teams had several good players they just turned into a bunch of can't miss prospects. Most of them just got really bad and had no choice.

All of the bolded has been true for a few seasons now. The plans executed to address those needs continue to fail. Maybe just maybe this management team of Williams and Hahn might be better at a rebuild than they are at figuring out a successful "All In" plan.

[GreenSox]

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/al/chicag...-sale-quintana/

 

Alright, if that's the way you want to go Jerry, no more p****footing. No half measures. You either spend like a boss or tear it down at this point

JR along with his front office are completely delusional. You can't contend just because you want to.

This team's record is accurate. You can't improve 10-15 games with more FAs and more poorly conceived Hahn trades for "proven" short term veterans.

The FO approach to team building is obsolete.

Build a core, Hahn. That, you're good at; trading for veterans, not so much.

Edited September 1, 2016 by GreenSox

[soxforlife05]

My interest in spending big begins and ends with Encarnacion.

 

He is Boston's #1 target to replace Ortiz

[Big Hurtin]

It makes sense that he wants to win, since the definition of want is to lack.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

All of the bolded has been true for a few seasons now. The plans executed to address those needs continue to fail. Maybe just maybe this management team of Williams and Hahn might be better at a rebuild than they are at figuring out a successful "All In" plan.

There is nothing to suggest that. I think they should go. But when you screw up but still have Sale and Q you are OK, and still have a chance. If you screw up when you trade those guys, you have nuclear bombed your organization.

[Bob Sacamano]

He is Boston's #1 target to replace Ortiz

 

Have the Sox actually said this? Ortiz said he wants him to replace him but that's because they're good buds.

[soxforlife05]

I hate to throw in the towel for next year already but I think we all know deep down they are going to do the same type of roster moves that were made last year.

[The Ginger Kid]

4 straight years of sub .500 to championship? That would be....impressive

[Bananarchy]

I hate to throw in the towel for next year already but I think we all know deep down they are going to do the same type of roster moves that were made last year.

Part of me doesn't really want to bother with next season...but I will. Right now i'm just so football mode.

[Dick Allen]

4 straight years of sub .500 to championship? That would be....impressive

When the Twins won the WS in 1987 they were below .500 in 6 of the 7 previous seasons. The only time they weren't they were 81-81.

 

The game is different, but when JR bought the team, they didn't have much, and they became pretty good pretty quickly, and that was before 10 teams made the playoffs. He may be eyeing something like that, although I don't totally buy Heymans report. The Sox don't want everyone to know if they are tearing it down until it is obvious.

[jenksycat]

I hate to throw in the towel for next year already but I think we all know deep down they are going to do the same type of roster moves that were made last year.

 

I think we're going to have this type of season until Sale & Q are both gone in a few years and they're forced to try a new strategy other than "throw a bunch of s*** at the wall and hope it sticks with our 2 Cy Young candidates"

[Big Hurtin]

The White Sox are barrelling down the tracks to "if a tree falls in the woods..." territory.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 straight years of sub .500 to championship? That would be....impressive

Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. There's a lot of parity in the AL right now. Just look at the wild card standings. Coming into this season, who thought the Rangers were a legitimate WS contender? 1 of 31 "experts" picked them to win the ALCS. Now they have the best record in the league and are the favorite to win the ALCS.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/page/seaso...ons-2016-season

[Dick Allen]

If your front office can't build a contending team around Sale and Q and their salaries, how can you think for a minute they could build one with the proceeds from their sales?

Edited September 1, 2016 by Dick Allen

[captain54]

And in addition to their rebuild, they also have a fan base that afforded them a high level of attendance during their rebuild which allowed them to spend something like half a billion dollars in new contracts to supplement that rebuild. We don't have that luxury.

 

Why not? The White Sox are a big market team with potential to draw. The numbers were there after 2005. They are in a major TV market and with the explosion of growth of the SW burbs, a much wider potential fan base than the Cubs

 

Also, as has been stated .. The comparisons to the KC and Pitts teams of the past are irrelevant. Small market teams..their droughts were in a different financial era of baseball

 

[caulfield12]

Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. There's a lot of parity in the AL right now. Just look at the wild card standings. Coming into this season, who thought the Rangers were a legitimate WS contender? 1 of 31 "experts" picked them to win the ALCS. Now they have the best record in the league and are the favorite to win the ALCS.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/page/seaso...ons-2016-season

 

Managers matter, too. And GM's.

 

 

Look at SD. The owner there forced an all-in season on Preller, was smart enough to realize the error in his ways and they're going in a clear direction now.

 

JR wants all-in but there's been no willingness to pay (and by definition you're almost always overpaying in free agency) the amount it would cost to put out a legit/competitive offense. Coupled with the shape of the farm system, especially in terms of their ability to trade non-2016 draftees, it's obvious they won't get back what they need because it's hard to imagine the Rockies lining up to trade CarGo for Fulmer, and just as difficult to imagine us adding more $15-$20 million contracts for NL players.

 

Realistically, the only way to win is finding those rare motivated free agents like Fowler and Desmond (late 20s/early 30s), and that's not going to be sustainable because they're typically on one year deals while rebuilding value. Same situation we have with Morneau now, and would have faced if Jackson had a really good season offensively and had stayed healthy.

Edited September 1, 2016 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Managers matter, too. And GM's.

 

 

Look at SD. The owner there forced an all-in season on Preller, was smart enough to realize the error in his ways and they're going in a clear direction now.

 

JR wants all-in but there's been no willingness to pay (and by definition you're almost always overpaying in free agency) the amount it would cost to put out a legit/competitive offense. Coupled with the shape of the farm system, especially in terms of their ability to trade non-2016 draftees, it's obvious they won't get back what they need because it's hard to imagine the Rockies lining up to trade CarGo for Fulmer, and just as difficult to imagine us adding more $15-$20 million contracts for NL players.

 

Realistically, the only way to win is finding those rare motivated free agents like Fowler and Desmond (late 20s/early 30s), and that's not going to be sustainable because they're typically on one year deals while rebuilding value. Same situation we have with Morneau now, and would have faced if Jackson had a really good season offensively and had stayed healthy.

I don't think Fulmer's value dropped that much this year, I would have sure said the Rockies would say yes on that.

[oldsox]

Of course his value dropped this year. Not that it makes any difference.

[SCCWS]

I think we all know what the reality is. They like what they're doing now and they're going to do it again.

 

Sounds like they feel .500 next year is realistic and they are close to getting there...............................

 

[caulfield12]

I don't think Fulmer's value dropped that much this year, I would have sure said the Rockies would say yes on that.

 

If the 2015 draft was redone today, would Fulmer have still gone to the Sox at #8?

 

Pretty doubtful.

 

And I would be a lot less concerned about his struggles if there was a clear mechanical fix OR his velocity wasn't sitting in the 91-93 MPH range, even as a one or two inning reliever in mop-up duty. (Even with that point, Jacob Turner can throw 98 out of the pen, but that doesn't necessarily make him a surefire candidate for our bullpen in 2017.)

 

He might not have fallen into Dillon Tate territory, but it remains to be seen what actual value Fulmer has...and we'll probably never find out, since it would call into question Hahn's judgment again (since Laumann won't be blamed by the media).

[SCCWS]

Have the Sox actually said this? Ortiz said he wants him to replace him but that's because they're good buds.

 

Moncada just got called up. It will be interesting to see if he can play 3rd. If not he is a very real DH possiblity. So is Hanley Ramirez and they still have the Panda as another player returning. They may have enough internal options to cover DH