Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

[bmags]

He said it without saying it. I am 100% certain. Mentioned pivot poins. Said there was one in 2007 and after 2012 and they got those wrong. Said if they did not rebuild after this year, with their contract situations, would have to after next. It I S going to happen.

 

Brooks was there as well as said the g rate deal is worth a lot more than media reports. The public only sees a portion of th agreement. Said there is going to be an event next year with a bunch of bands g rate is subsidizing ticket prices

 

Just reposting this for those who see it referenced but missed it.

[NCsoxfan]

Finally finally it sounds like the Sox front office realizes you CANNOT try to contend by trading pieces from a weak farm system and signing free agents. Of course, reading that and agreeing seems obvious, but it practice they have actually believed that's a valid strategy.

 

I am very content with a full rebuild, and only leaving guys like Anderson, Rodon, Burdi, Hansen, Collins. Might suck and it might not work, but we're at that point.

[SCCWS]

Finally finally it sounds like the Sox front office realizes you CANNOT try to contend by trading pieces from a weak farm system and signing free agents. Of course, reading that and agreeing seems obvious, but it practice they have actually believed that's a valid strategy.

 

I am very content with a full rebuild, and only leaving guys like Anderson, Rodon, Burdi, Hansen, Collins. Might suck and it might not work, but we're at that point.

 

I would assume that a full rebuild would also mean changing the way they run their business. Scouts and minor league personnel should also see turnover as well. That should be the first indication they are serious. Before you start acquiring young talent you need people in place to work with them.

 

[bmags]

FWIW, which ain't much, I see us as a "rebuild" more in vein of Tigers last year or Yankees this year. I really think one or two choice trades of near MLB talent get us there.

 

The problem is being patient when we are still 1-2 years away and letting it happen, not just going hog wild as soon as you smell it coming together.

[Dick Allen]

I assume they're all aware how the North side has become the only team in Chicago over the past 1.5 years that even most of the older STH want to start this thing ASAP.

No one really mentioned the Cubs. There was just the griping about veterans being brought in and not getting the job done. Some people were upset, but those that asked questions were civil. Even the guy crying about not being able to sell his $5 tickets.

[Dick Allen]

FWIW, which ain't much, I see us as a "rebuild" more in vein of Tigers last year or Yankees this year. I really think one or two choice trades of near MLB talent get us there.

 

The problem is being patient when we are still 1-2 years away and letting it happen, not just going hog wild as soon as you smell it coming together.

He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning.

 

It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down.

[SCCWS]

He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning.

 

It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down.

 

 

Lawrie had a couple of bad years defensively playing 3rd. I think because he is hurt and had a mediocre year they are forced to bring him back at 2nd.

[bmags]

Lawrie had a couple of bad years defensively playing 3rd. I think because he is hurt and had a mediocre year they are forced to bring him back at 2nd.

 

To me, you hold lawrie and hope he has a lightning in bottle first half.

[ChiSox59]

He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning.

 

It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down.

 

This, and rightfully so, but how can you really rebuild without trading those guys? Trade the supporting cast of Melky, Frazier, Lawrie, Robertson and Gonzalez? Sure, but that isn't going to bring in a boatload of talent. And if you're going to trade those guys away, you're going to suck, and waste yet another year of Sale and Q's control.

 

Since the core of this team is still together next year, I was all for one more band-aid approach year, but I get that starting it this winter is probably for the best. But that has to include moving Sale, Q, or both. May as well move Eaton and Abreu too. Jose's value I am sure has skyrocketed the last 2 months. Dude is back to being an absolute beast.

[Chicago White Sox]

He mentioned Melky, Robertson, Frazier, and Lawrie's contracts expiring soon. I would imagine they may be the first lined up out the door. Although if they do trade Frazier, I would hang on to Lawrie. He isn't going to bring much back, and has had nice stretches this year. You could put him at 3B, and hope he plays well enough to flip at the deadline if they aren't winning.

 

It would really be radical to trade Sale and Q. I would imagine that is not the plan unless they get an offer they can't turn down.

And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more.

[Dick Allen]

And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more.

Getting something is better than nothing. I imagine Melky and Frazier and Robertson have some value around the league.

 

 

Once they trade Sale and or Q for prospects that don't turn into MVP candidates, everyone who is so gung ho to get rid of every player, will change their tune. They can always trade Sale or Q in a year or 2. No sense in trading him just to get rid of him.

 

If trading an ace for prospects is a guarantee to make teams better, I have no idea why teams pay them so much money.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Hatchetman]

Robertson no value with his price tag.

[Dick Allen]

Robertson no value with his price tag.

I disagree. We will find out most likely.

[ChiSox59]

I disagree. We will find out most likely.

 

Me too. Probably not worth a top 50 prospect, but I bet he can get someone towards the back end of the top 100. Otherwise they won't trade him.

[southsider2k5]

Me too. Probably not worth a top 50 prospect, but I bet he can get someone towards the back end of the top 100. Otherwise they won't trade him.

 

Which is right about where Avi Garcia ranked when we got him. Make of that what you will.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

And what's that going to accomplish? Trading a bunch of guys coming off average to below average seasons with only a year left of control? How does that make us better exactly? That's just a half-ass rebuild and we'll end up losing Sale in three year with no chance of being competitive. You're so anti rebuild that you're not even making sense any more.

It is possible to do a near-full rebuild by not trading Sale and Q but it would involve trading just about everyone else - Eaton, Abreu, Melky, Gonzalez, Frazier, Robertson, Lawrie. Should be able to get some really nice pieces for those guys. Sure it won't be the haul that Sale and Q would bring back but I would still expect 4 or 5 top 100 prospects that are near MLB ready (Eaton should bring back 2 by himself). Would be great to get another young high profile arm to round out that rotation. A rotation consisting of Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, and Glasnow would be fun to watch even if the offense stinks while guys like Collins, Anderson, Tilson, Sanchez, Navarez, Engel and whoever else comes over via trade take their lumps. Certainly that would be one way to clear major salary ahead of the 2018-2019 FA class. Would likely clear enough payroll to be below $75MM heading into 2018-2019 free agency.

Edited September 7, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Chicago White Sox]

Getting something is better than nothing. I imagine Melky and Frazier and Robertson have some value around the league.

 

 

Once they trade Sale and or Q for prospects that don't turn into MVP candidates, everyone who is so gung ho to get rid of every player, will change their tune. They can always trade Sale or Q in a year or 2. No sense in trading him just to get rid of him.

 

If trading an ace for prospects is a guarantee to make teams better, I have no idea why teams pay them so much money.

But that's not a rebuild, that's just more retooling. And how does it help us maximize the three year window we have with Chris under control? You're punting at least the 2017 season by trading guys like Frazier, Melky, & Robertson and now have three big holes to fill before the 2018 season. If all goes well, which is unlikely for reasons listed numerous times, you have two seasons to compete before you lose Chris Sale for nothing. Does that really sound like a good plan to you?

 

Again, this retooling nonsense has to end. Like Hahn said in the STH event, we aren't going to get better until we take a step back. More retooling is just delaying the inevitable. There are obvious risks when it comes to rebuilding, but they are far less than more half-ass retooling. Our track record over the past 10 seasons speaks for itself.

[captain54]

Does the Shields trade win the award for worst trade of the 2016 season? Having trouble thinking of worse trades...

 

More WSCR insanity…

 

yesterday they had Football Know-It-All Hub ('I've never actually played or coached sports in any capacity) Arkush, for some inexplicable reason, taking calls from White Sox callers and commenting on the Shields trade…

 

Hub said that fans should keep their mouths shut because everyone was on board when Shields was signed…

 

when the hostile tweets and texts started pouring in, Hub got all bent out of shape and annoyed and ticked off

 

very entertaining..

[Dick Allen]

But that's not a rebuild, that's just more retooling. And how does it help us maximize the three year window we have with Chris under control? You're punting at least the 2017 season by trading guys like Frazier, Melky, & Robertson and now have three big holes to fill before the 2018 season. If all goes well, which is unlikely for reasons listed numerous times, you have two seasons to compete before you lose Chris Sale for nothing. Does that really sound like a good plan to you?

 

Again, this retooling nonsense has to end. Like Hahn said in the STH event, we aren't going to get better until we take a step back. More retooling is just delaying the inevitable. There are obvious risks when it comes to rebuilding, but they are far less than more half-ass retooling. Our track record over the past 10 seasons speaks for itself.

No it's not. Trading veterans for minor leaguers is rebuilding. Why would it only be considered rebuilding if they traded Sale and/or Q? They aren't going to trade everyone away.

[Chicago White Sox]

It is possible to do a near-full rebuild by not trading Sale and Q but it would involve trading just about everyone else - Eaton, Abreu, Melky, Gonzalez, Frazier, Robertson, Lawrie. Should be able to get some really nice pieces for those guys. Sure it won't be the haul that Sale and Q would bring back but I would still expect 4 or 5 top 100 prospects that are near MLB ready (Eaton should bring back 2 by himself). Would be great to get another young high profile arm to round out that rotation. A rotation consisting of Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer, and Glasnow would be fun to watch even if the offense stinks while guys like Collins, Anderson, Tilson, Sanchez, Navarez, Engel and whoever else comes over via trade take their lumps. Certainly that would be one way to clear major salary ahead of the 2018-2019 FA class. Would likely clear enough payroll to be below $75MM heading into 2017-2018 free agency.

So you want to trade everything but Sale & Quintana for a one year shot in 2019? Because Sale will be gone after that season. Why not just trade Sale? Is that one year window really worth what your forgoing in value today for Chris?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

But that's not a rebuild, that's just more retooling. And how does it help us maximize the three year window we have with Chris under control? You're punting at least the 2017 season by trading guys like Frazier, Melky, & Robertson and now have three big holes to fill before the 2018 season. If all goes well, which is unlikely for reasons listed numerous times, you have two seasons to compete before you lose Chris Sale for nothing. Does that really sound like a good plan to you?

 

Again, this retooling nonsense has to end. Like Hahn said in the STH event, we aren't going to get better until we take a step back. More retooling is just delaying the inevitable. There are obvious risks when it comes to rebuilding, but they are far less than more half-ass retooling. Our track record over the past 10 seasons speaks for itself.

Rebuilding doesn't necessarily require trading everyone of value from your current major league roster. If they unload everyone but Sale and Q, they sure as heck could afford extending Sale and Q if they wanted or they could go out and sign Manny Machado and Andrew McCutchen for true "all-in" seasons 2019 and beyond. I know that would be out of character for this franchise to sign high profile FA's but realize that there are more ways to rebuild than just tear the whole thing down to the ground until nothing is left. It is possible they would consider breaking character ahead of the new TV deal and possible sale of the franchise by landing a big star or two, I wouldn't rule it out completely especially if the rest of the payroll is already suppressed.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

So you want to trade everything but Sale & Quintana for a one year shot in 2019? Because Sale will be gone after that season. Why not just trade Sale? Is that one year window really worth what your forgoing in value today for Chris?

If Chris keeps pitching like he has his entire career, he will have PLENTY of trade value come 2019 before he hits the open market.

[Chicago White Sox]

No it's not. Trading veterans for minor leaguers is rebuilding. Why would it only be considered rebuilding if they traded Sale and/or Q? They aren't going to trade everyone away.

Rebuilding means trading from your core, so guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Rodon, Anderson, & Jones. Trading a bunch of guys a year from free agency and coming off poor seasons is definitely not rebuilding.

 

Instead of arguing semantics, explain how such a strategy (deal the complimentary pieces) gets us closer to the playoffs or helps us achieve sustainable success.

[Hatchetman]

OK. There are two strategies that SORT OF make some sense:

1. Trade Sale and/or Quintana and the complementary parts for all the prospects you can (total rebuild)

2. Keep everyone essentially in place and try to catch lightning in a bottle again ("go for it")

 

The one move that definitely does NOT make sense would be to trade all your complementary pieces but not Sale and/or Quintana (not even sure what this strategy would be called). That would get you exactly nowhere.

[ChiSox59]

Rebuilding means trading from your core, so guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Eaton, Rodon, Anderson, & Jones. Trading a bunch of guys a year from free agency and coming off poor seasons is definitely not rebuilding.

 

Instead of arguing semantics, explain how such a strategy (deal the complimentary pieces) gets us closer to the playoffs or helps us achieve sustainable success.

 

You don't trade Rodon and Anderson in a rebuild. Those are the types of guys you want to acquire, not trade away.

 

The rest...sure. Though I'd still have really tough time trading Eaton and Abreu. I'd want packages just a tad under what I'd want for Q for those two.