Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Same sense of urgency in place one year ago: long playoff drought and impatient fan base. Yet you saw the retooling efforts they expended last offseason. Again, do you really expect anything different from a payroll perspective from the owner? And what's your view if he won't raise the payroll? Then what?

Do you honestly believe the White Sox fan base was as impatient and frustrated one year ago as they are today? I strongly disagree with that assessment.

[Thad Bosley]

Do you honestly believe the White Sox fan base was as impatient and frustrated one year ago as they are today? I strongly disagree with that assessment.

LOL - are you serious?! Were you around for seasons 2013, 2014, & 2015? Those were three, long and brutal seasons for the fan base to endure. The Sox were last in TV ratings and 27th in attendance in all of baseball last year. If that doesn't translate to frustration to you, I don't know what will. Wow.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

LOL - are you serious?! Were you around for seasons 2013, 2014, & 2015? Those were three, long and brutal seasons for the fan base to endure. The Sox were last in TV ratings and 27th in attendance in all of baseball last year. If that doesn't translate to frustration to you, I don't know what will. Wow.

Yes I'm serious. How many people on this site alone have stated that they have never been so frustrated and upset with White Sox baseball? There is absolutely more angst amongst the fan base now than there was a year ago at this time.

[caulfield12]

 

 

The frustration level is MUCH higher this year, because of:

 

23-10 start, then complete collapse

James Shields

apparent disconnect between KW and JR, no moves around trade deadline

Chris Sale fiasco

Guaranteed Rate fiasco

LaRoche fiasco

 

It's all getting to be just TOO MUCH. Even the biggest defenders of the front office and/or Ventura are realizing SOMETHING has to change, if only for change's sake. They've turned over almost an entire roster and half of another and are still making the same types of mistakes that you saw in 2013 or 2014. They've changed hitting coaches, but the talent is just insufficient to have anything more than a bottom quartile offense for a team that plays 81 homes games in a hitter's park.

 

[Thad Bosley]

Yes I'm serious. How many people on this site alone have stated that they have never been so frustrated and upset with White Sox baseball? There is absolutely more angst amongst the fan base now than there was a year ago at this time.

Go back and look at the threads from a year ago. Angst at the same level then as it is now. Nothing has changed on that front.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Go back and look at the threads from a year ago. Angst at the same level then as it is now. Nothing has changed on that front.

WRONG

[Thad Bosley]

WRONG

Lol - ok, I give up. You win. You're right - it was all peaches and cream with the fan base this time last year. This was the year when the straw broke the Sox fan base's back. Oh, for the calm and content of this time last year!

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The frustration level is MUCH higher this year, because of:

 

23-10 start, then complete collapse

James Shields

apparent disconnect between KW and JR, no moves around trade deadline

Chris Sale fiasco

Guaranteed Rate fiasco

LaRoche fiasco

 

It's all getting to be just TOO MUCH. Even the biggest defenders of the front office and/or Ventura are realizing SOMETHING has to change, if only for change's sake. They've turned over almost an entire roster and half of another and are still making the same types of mistakes that you saw in 2013 or 2014. They've changed hitting coaches, but the talent is just insufficient to have anything more than a bottom quartile offense for a team that plays 81 homes games in a hitter's park.

Exactly. The "possibility" of a Sale or Q trade at the deadline and then nothing happening really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I think you left out one other big thing - the success of the north side club. The success of the Cubs and the notion that the Sox should mirror their plan (combined with the continued playoff draught), has led to 90% of Sox fans demanding a rebuild.

 

Side note, It's a very small sample size and he's still very young but Yoan Moncada (the much desired centerpiece of a Sale trade) has struck out in 10 of his first 17 big league ABs, including his last 7 consecutive ABs. Welcome to the big leagues kid. Just another reminder that not all "can't miss" MLB ready prospects are capable of immediately producing on the big stage.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Lol - ok, I give up. You win. You're right - it was all peaches and cream with the fan base this time last year. This was the year when the straw broke the Sox fan base's back. Oh, for the calm and content of this time last year!

On this I am absolutely right. Good luck finding someone to agree with you on this.

[Thad Bosley]

On this I am absolutely right. Good luck finding someone to agree with you on this.

You are totally right. It's almost night and day the difference in frustration being expressed here lately with what was done so at the same time last year. Nobody seemed to mind the cumulative effect of the '13, '14, & '15 seasons with the seven year playoff drought last year. But 2016 changed everything. We've gone from a content fan base to a completely frustrated one just because of this year's ineptitude. I apologize - I clearly did not remember the mood of the fans from just one year ago.

[captain54]

By the very fact that there's an argument over which seasons end the fans were the most pissed off and frustrating, should be proof enough that somethings gotta give with this organization..and I don't mean let's f*****g re-load and repair the Titanic

[Chicago White Sox]

Exactly. The "possibility" of a Sale or Q trade at the deadline and then nothing happening really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I think you left out one other big thing - the success of the north side club. The success of the Cubs and the notion that the Sox should mirror their plan (combined with the continued playoff draught), has led to 90% of Sox fans demanding a rebuild.

 

Side note, It's a very small sample size and he's still very young but Yoan Moncada (the much desired centerpiece of a Sale trade) has struck out in 10 of his first 17 big league ABs, including his last 7 consecutive ABs. Welcome to the big leagues kid. Just another reminder that not all "can't miss" MLB ready prospects are capable of immediately producing on the big stage.

If we're rebuilding who cares if a prospect is capable of immediately producing on the big stage? We'd have plenty of time for them to take their lumps. And citing a batter's first 17 plate appearances as proof of anything is beyond ridiculous. I'd happily take Moncada & Benintendi as the centerpieces in a Sale trade. Unfortunately, I doubt the Red Sox would be willing to do that now.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

You are totally right. It's almost night and day the difference in frustration being expressed here lately with what was done so at the same time last year. Nobody seemed to mind the cumulative effect of the '13, '14, & '15 seasons with the seven year playoff drought last year. But 2016 changed everything. We've gone from a content fan base to a completely frustrated one just because of this year's ineptitude. I apologize - I clearly did not remember the mood of the fans from just one year ago.

Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did).

[Thad Bosley]

Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did).

I keep telling you that you're right. It's clearly night and day the way the fans felt after the '13, '14, & '15 seasons with only a seven year playoff drought, and how they feel now after the '13, '14, '15 AND the '16 season, AND a playoff drought now grown to eight years. It's amazing how different it feels now versus last year.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

If we're rebuilding who cares if a prospect is capable of immediately producing on the big stage? We'd have plenty of time for them to take their lumps. And citing a batter's first 17 plate appearances as proof of anything is beyond ridiculous. I'd happily take Moncada & Benintendi as the centerpieces in a Sale trade. Unfortunately, I doubt the Red Sox would be willing to do that now.

If they aren't willing to do it now they weren't willing to do it 6 weeks ago. Nothing has changed. We'll see how it plays out. Just remember for every Kris Bryants there are 2 Byron Buxtons. Unfair or not, the Sox fan base would absolutely expect to see immediate results from a top 10 prospect that is "MLB ready" involved in a Sale trade.

[Chicago White Sox]

Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did).

I'll agree with you here. The anger started to heat up in the offseason when we failed to land a single impact free agent in a buyer's market. It then cooled quite a bit during the 23-10 start, but quickly regained steam as the team collapsed and we saw our half-ass offseason for what it was. However, I think it was the lack of moves at the deadline that really broke the camel's back. Absolutely ridiculous we only made one move while other protective sellers were able to clean up.

[Chicago White Sox]

If they aren't willing to do it now they weren't willing to do it 6 weeks ago. Nothing has changed. We'll see how it plays out. Just remember for every Kris Bryants there are 2 Byron Buxtons. Unfair or not, the Sox fan base would absolutely expect to see immediate results from a top 10 prospect that is "MLB ready" involved in a Sale trade.

Again, who cares what the fanbase thinks? The front office is paid to design and execute a strategy that delivers sustainable success. Short-sighted and/or hypocritical fans should have no impact on their decision-making.

[caulfield12]

And, for what it's worth, Buxton is finally starting to show major glimpses of the player everyone expected him to become...it's just that it didn't happen right away.

 

Of course, the Twins are going to end up with quite another problem altogether, which is continuing to pay escalating salaries to the likes of Dozier (not to mention Mauer's huge deal) while breaking in more and more young players into what is a veteran-dominant starting staff.

 

By the time all those youngsters are really ready, Dozier will be gone and Mauer will be declining even more. Timing is all off unless those young starting pitchers arrive in a hurry.

[captain54]

Unfair or not, the Sox fan base would absolutely expect to see immediate results from a top 10 prospect that is "MLB ready" involved in a Sale trade.

 

To be perfectly blunt, that's BS

 

I believe your typical Sox fan would be much more willing to watch a touted prospect take their lumps, than watch a Shields and Robertson wet the bed, or watch an endless parade of middling veterans "underachieving"

Edited September 8, 2016 by captain54

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

To be perfectly blunt, that's BS

 

I believe your typical Sox fan would be much more willing to watch a touted prospect take their lumps, than watch a Shields and Robertson wet the bed, or watch an endless parade of middling veterans "underachieving"

That's not what we are talking about here. We're talking about watching a Lucas Giolito struggle every fifth day in place of Chris Sale. Judging from the reaction of many on here in watching the likes of Carlos Rodon and Carson Fulmer take their lumps, I don't think the fans will have much patience in watching the highly touted prospect involved in a Sale trade taking their lumps. Most are going to want immediate results (i.e. Prospects producing at a high level in the big leagues within a year or two).

Edited September 8, 2016 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[southsider2k5]

Who said the fan base was content last year? Dramatic much? I said the fan base is increasingly more impatient and frustrated now than they were a year ago (that doesn't mean the fan base was content last year) while you said they were equally frustrated and impatient last year. You're wrong. In absence of an official poll, I will let others chime in on this subject (well Caulfield already did).

 

Totally this. Apparently there aren't various levels of discontent. It is either "peaches and cream" or military coup. And it is way worse this year. Way more bitter... way more angry.

[caulfield12]

There's only two solutions to that...another 2014-15 offseason (except better talent evaluation), which might not even be possible even if they had the money to spend because of the dearth of talent on the market, and trading at least one of Sale, Q, Eaton to leverage an asset for multiple pieces back.

 

Any other course and fans will be aggravated for yet another year.

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

There's only two solutions to that...another 2014-15 offseason (except better talent evaluation), which might not even be possible even if they had the money to spend because of the dearth of talent on the market, and trading at least one of Sale, Q, Eaton to leverage an asset for multiple pieces back.

 

Any other course and fans will be aggravated for yet another year.

 

lol, like next year will be any different.

[caulfield12]

lol, like next year will be any different.

 

Has anyone seen any plausible suggestions yet to get the White Sox out of this miasma?

 

Something has to happen...a final tipping or inflection point. Things can't continue like this much longer.

 

 

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

Totally this. Apparently there aren't various levels of discontent. It is either "peaches and cream" or military coup. And it is way worse this year. Way more bitter... way more angry.

The small market Kansas City Royals have won more postseason games in just the past two years than the large market Chicago White Sox have in the past 56. That would, amongst many other things, explain what you seem to interpret as a "bitter" and "angry" attitude of a fan base that has been failed by decades of inept ownership going all the way back to 1960, not to mention the complete disaster that has been the past four seasons.