Jon Heyman: Sox have little interest in moving Sale or Quintana

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

That's the opinion of a former executive, not from anyone within the White Sox organization. But thanks for proving my point with some much needed snark!

Isn't this whole discussion hypothetical anyway? How do you know the Sox wouldn't consider a proposal built around a young high profile arm? My initial comment was in response to the article posted by Caulfield and the idea of what they "should" get in a trade for Sale, which was suggested as "huge-upside, young, controllable pitching." That's how I jumped to that conclusion.

[Lillian]

Sure, two potent bats in the middle of the order would make a huge difference. Now, how are they going to get them?

 

Of course, that is the challenge. However, isn't it easier to fill 1, or 2 holes than to try to fill a half a dozen?

 

Maybe quality would reduce the need for quantity. If that middle of the order bat were potent enough, one more bat might be enough.

Nevertheless, your question is still the big one; "how are they going to get them?" (or him).

[Hatchetman]

no no. you said two. not one. unless its babe ruth reincarnated.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I'd love to target Kevin Kiermaier. He's elite defensively and has a solid left handed bat too.

[Lillian]

no no. you said two. not one. unless its babe ruth reincarnated.

 

Well, to be completely accurate, what I said was: "Add a potent LH hitting, middle of the order bat, and one more significant offensive contributor..."

I also said that Anderson may be able to stick in the top 2/3 of the order, which would mean that they would still be one bat short of an adequate top 2/3 of the order.

 

Nevertheless, your question is still not only valid, but the most important one; Where are they going to find that one big bat? I have no idea, do you?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Well, to be completely accurate, what I said was: "Add a potent LH hitting, middle of the order bat, and one more significant offensive contributor..."

I also said that Anderson may be able to stick in the top 2/3 of the order, which would mean that they would still be one bat short of an adequate top 2/3 of the order.

 

Nevertheless, your question is still not only valid, but the most important one; Where are they going to find that one big bat? I have no idea, do you?

I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well.

[Thad Bosley]

I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well.

Sox are currently 12th in the league in offense. Cleveland and Detroit stand at #3 & 4 respectively. How does the addition of these two second tier players even remotely put us in the same ballpark as those two teams? How do those two and Volquez close a 15 game gap with the Indians, and a 9 game gap with the Tigers? Are you just banking on those two teams tanking next season and, for the first time in a very long time, patchwork additions by the Sox catapulting them to the top of the heap?

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well.

 

 

I doubt the Sox will be forfeiting a 1st round pick to sign anyone let alone Fowler or Desmond. They are selling.

[Bob Sacamano]

I doubt the Sox will be forfeiting a 1st round pick to sign anyone let alone Fowler or Desmond. They are selling.

 

We don't know that 100% yet.

[SCCWS]

Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia should be red flags in regards to anyone thinking these guys are better at identifying minor league talent.

 

or in James Shields case maybe that person got promoted to scouting ML talent.

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Sox are currently 12th in the league in offense. Cleveland and Detroit stand at #3 & 4 respectively. How does the addition of these two second tier players even remotely put us in the same ballpark as those two teams? How do those two and Volquez close a 15 game gap with the Indians, and a 9 game gap with the Tigers? Are you just banking on those two teams tanking next season and, for the first time in a very long time, patchwork additions by the Sox catapulting them to the top of the heap?

There's no doubt that Cleveland is a force to be reckoned with but they will still have some difficult decisions to make this offseason - resign Napoli and Davis? extend Santana or let him walk after next season? will Brantley make a full recovery from season ending surgery? can youngsters Tyler Naquin and Jose Ramirez continue performing at this high of a level? will Yan Gomes learn to hit again? They will most certainly enter next season as the division favorite but they are far from invincible. Consider this: the White Sox have a better, albeit slight, non-divisional record than the Indians. That just goes to show how poorly the White Sox have played within the division and how well the Indians have played within it but is this solely due to superior talent? If so, then why do the White Sox have a better record outside the division (43-37 vs. 45-41)? I still contend that filling the well-known gaping holes in this 25-man roster with average to above average talent (second-tier FA if you will) combined with changes within the organization (i.e. coaching, advanced scouting, etc) results in a team with the ability to contend for the playoffs next year. They don't need a top 5 offense to contend, league average will suffice, as long as they have a top 5 pitching staff and defense, which they are more than capable of.

 

One final thought: Our fifth starter this season has a combined W-L record of 3-15 and an ERA of 7.77. So yes, the two starting pitchers that I have suggested as #5 starter candidates Edinson Volquez (10-10, 5.02 ERA) and Doug Fister (12-11, 4.14 ERA) would be MASSIVE upgrades from what they have gotten out of that spot this season. By massive, I mean 6 or 7 wins better just by replacing that one spot in the rotation with an average pitcher while keeping all else equal.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

There's no doubt that Cleveland is a force to be reckoned with but they will still have some difficult decisions to make this offseason - resign Napoli and Davis? extend Santana or let him walk after next season? will Brantley make a full recovery from season ending surgery? can youngsters Tyler Naquin and Jose Ramirez continue performing at this high of a level? will Yan Gomes learn to hit again? They will most certainly enter next season as the division favorite but they are far from invincible. Consider this: the White Sox have a better, albeit slight, non-divisional record than the Indians. That just goes to show how poorly the White Sox have played within the division and how well the Indians have played within it but is this solely due to superior talent? If so, then why do the White Sox have a better record outside the division (43-37 vs. 45-41)? I still contend that filling the well-known gaping holes in this 25-man roster with average to above average talent (second-tier FA if you will) combined with changes within the organization (i.e. coaching, advanced scouting, etc) results in a team with the ability to contend for the playoffs next year. They don't need a top 5 offense to contend, league average will suffice, as long as they have a top 5 pitching staff and defense, which they are more than capable of.

 

One final thought: Our fifth starter this season has a combined W-L record of 3-15 and an ERA of 7.77. So yes, the two starting pitchers that I have suggested as #5 starter candidates Edinson Volquez (10-10, 5.02 ERA) and Doug Fister (12-11, 4.14 ERA) would be MASSIVE upgrades from what they have gotten out of that spot this season. By massive, I mean 6 or 7 wins better just by replacing that one spot in the rotation with an average pitcher while keeping all else equal.

 

In a general sense, one thing I see looking at this team is some really low hanging fruit that can improve the team VERY quickly. The performances that we got out of John Danks/ James Shields/ Raunando is something that can be improved upon greatly, without a significant move.

 

The offense is another spot that is just begging for big improvement all of the diamond.

 

The question would be how do you utilize resources to get those players, and that is what people get paid the big dollars for. But I would content that there are some spots were a lot of improvement can be found.

[captain54]

Don't forget future middle of the rotation starter Nestor Molina! Check out these Kenny quotes from 2011. In his eyes they already tried "rebuilding" back in 2011-2012:

 

http://www.espn.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id...s-nestor-molina

 

I think this is the same type of "rebuilding" that can be expected this offseason, which is why I predict their first move is to trade David Robertson.

 

2011 was a Classic Kenny Williams "go for it" year if there ever was one…. signing Crain and Adam Dunn, and extending AJ and Konerko…

 

So if this is the type of "rebuilding" you are predicting for 2017, then we are truly f###ed

 

As far as your Robertson prediction.. I hope JR is hungry, because if what you predict is true, he's gonna be chomping down on some salary….

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2011 was a Classic Kenny Williams "go for it" year if there ever was one…. signing Crain and Adam Dunn, and extending AJ and Konerko…

 

So if this is the type of "rebuilding" you are predicting for 2017, then we are truly f###ed

 

As far as your Robertson prediction.. I hope JR is hungry, because if what you predict is true, he's gonna be chomping down on some salary….

I wouldn't be surprised to see them use the potential Roberston savings towards a FA acquisition(s) and for the 2017 "rebuild" to look fairly similar to the 2011 "rebuild". I still think it's more realistic they "retool" rather than "full rebuild". At the end of the day, I would be more surprised if they traded Sale than if they signed Moreland, Volquez, Wieters, and Fowler. Just my opinion.

[Y2Jimmy0]

We don't know that 100% yet.

 

 

I can almost guarantee they won't be spending on a QO free agent. At least I hope not. It would be very short-sighted. They are in no position to give away 1st round draft picks

[Bob Sacamano]

I can almost guarantee they won't be spending on a QO free agent. At least I hope not. It would be very short-sighted. They are in no position to give away 1st round draft picks

 

That's not what I said. I'm not disagreeing with that point. We don't know that they are going to rebuild yet is what I was saying.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well.

Mitch has a wRC+ of 100 this year and a career average of 101. He is not an impact offensive talent.

[bmags]

Did we solve the future yet?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Mitch has a wRC+ of 100 this year and a career average of 101. He is not an impact offensive talent.

Is he a LH power bat and better than Avi's career wRC+ of 89? If so, then he is an upgrade and an adequate no. 6 hitter behind Fowler, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, and Melky.

[Hatchetman]

Why is he any better than Morneau has been?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Why is he any better than Morneau has been?

Morneau is at 96 this year and he's only played in 44 games. Players not named Morneau have received the lion's share of at-bats at DH this year for the White Sox. Besides Morneau isn't signed beyond this year and I'd prefer the guy that is 4 years younger.

[SCCWS]

In a general sense, one thing I see looking at this team is some really low hanging fruit that can improve the team VERY quickly. The performances that we got out of John Danks/ James Shields/ Raunando is something that can be improved upon greatly, without a significant move.

 

The offense is another spot that is just begging for big improvement all of the diamond.

 

The question would be how do you utilize resources to get those players, and that is what people get paid the big dollars for. But I would content that there are some spots were a lot of improvement can be found.

 

But that was the same problem last year w Dank's performance and they addressed it w back-ups in Turner and Latos. So it is certainly fixable but not going after scrap heap types. It may take trading an asset ( Melky?) to get a legit 4/5 starter. But that opens another hole.

 

[Hatchetman]

It's been the same damn thing year after year..."our guys are so bad it will be easy to find better." But it never is.

[southsider2k5]

But that was the same problem last year w Dank's performance and they addressed it w back-ups in Turner and Latos. So it is certainly fixable but not going after scrap heap types. It may take trading an asset ( Melky?) to get a legit 4/5 starter. But that opens another hole.

 

Look, this whole mob mentality about grabbing guys who are down is silly. Just because it doesn't always work, doesn't mean it never works. Miguel Gonzalez is proof of this. The Tigers got JD Martinez this way. Jose Bautista was passed around more times than a cheap hooker. It doesn't mean it is 100%, or fool proof, but you don't just quit a line of potential talent.

[caulfield12]

There's no doubt that Cleveland is a force to be reckoned with but they will still have some difficult decisions to make this offseason - resign Napoli and Davis? extend Santana or let him walk after next season? will Brantley make a full recovery from season ending surgery? can youngsters Tyler Naquin and Jose Ramirez continue performing at this high of a level? will Yan Gomes learn to hit again? They will most certainly enter next season as the division favorite but they are far from invincible. Consider this: the White Sox have a better, albeit slight, non-divisional record than the Indians. That just goes to show how poorly the White Sox have played within the division and how well the Indians have played within it but is this solely due to superior talent? If so, then why do the White Sox have a better record outside the division (43-37 vs. 45-41)? I still contend that filling the well-known gaping holes in this 25-man roster with average to above average talent (second-tier FA if you will) combined with changes within the organization (i.e. coaching, advanced scouting, etc) results in a team with the ability to contend for the playoffs next year. They don't need a top 5 offense to contend, league average will suffice, as long as they have a top 5 pitching staff and defense, which they are more than capable of.

 

One final thought: Our fifth starter this season has a combined W-L record of 3-15 and an ERA of 7.77. So yes, the two starting pitchers that I have suggested as #5 starter candidates Edinson Volquez (10-10, 5.02 ERA) and Doug Fister (12-11, 4.14 ERA) would be MASSIVE upgrades from what they have gotten out of that spot this season. By massive, I mean 6 or 7 wins better just by replacing that one spot in the rotation with an average pitcher while keeping all else equal.

 

Davis isn't that important...they also have Chisenhall and Almonte and another outfield prospect in the high minors. They keep Santana, as their payroll was close to $90 million and they're also freed from Swisher/Bourn/Johnson to a large extent.

 

Naquin and the underrated Guyer have actually been two of their better players, and there's nothing to stop them from going after Wieters or Ramos.

 

Lindor continues to be one of the most underrated players in baseball, they've got all that pitching and Miller now as well to complement the back end. As you mentioned, there are a number of veterans guys out there who can put up Napoli's 109 line.

 

 

We can do this with every team. Detroit will have a healthier Zimmerman and Daniel Norris for the full season. Boyd's had a full season of experience to get his feet wet. JD Martinez missed half the year and Upton has been the player they seemingly overpaid the last month, going on one of his typical home run binges. This has also been without Chisenhall, who has had a breakout year.

 

 

A large part of that AL Central record is the White Sox against Minnesota early in the year....strip that away and it looks more typical, and the Twins are a much more competitive team offensively the last 6-8 weeks. They've been horrific with risp and that type of stat tends to even out year to year.

 

 

The Royals would be tied or one game back in the wild card hunt if not for Soria doing his own version of Matt Albers and Lorenzo Cain being out of the line-up. They've absorbed 4-5 terrible losses in the last ten days....but still have an outside shot without Hochevar, Cain, Moustakas, etc. Gordon missed half the year and has underperformed when healthy, Davis was hurt for a month when they went 7-19, Perez has been banged up and Chris Young/Medlen compare with the back end of the Sox rotation.

 

Next year they will be all in again and will be forced to go for it unless they plan on selling off half their roster early...not to mention they have more financial resources now, they've developed Cuthbert and Strahm and they're definitely going to be aggressive about fixing their pitching issues.

 

 

 

All things considered, the White Sox are not in an enviable position. Two teams more desperate to be all in with Detroit and KC, the Indians and the Twins have been better than the Sox the last two months and are getting steadier contributions from Buxton, Dozier, Kepler and Sano. Berrios comes around and they start becoming dangerous.