Sox BP has been bad

[Iwritecode]

This doesn't even include yesterday's BS.

 

Link

 

 

EDIT: Ok, there wasn't a BS yesterday. Robertson just took the loss.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Iwritecode

[southsider2k5]

It is crazy to read things about how much the bullpen and offense trail the averages, and think that we aren't a 45 win team.

[3GamesToLove]

I thought you meant BP South Side for a second.

[NorthSideSox72]

Blown saves does not tell you anything about how good or bad a bullpen is. It's a pretty useless stat for evaluation. Blown saves can occur late in games for a variety of reasons, and it treats all the same which makes it really noisy.

 

The bullpen is bad, but the blown saves measure doesn't tell us that.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Blown saves does not tell you anything about how good or bad a bullpen is. It's a pretty useless stat for evaluation. Blown saves can occur late in games for a variety of reasons, and it treats all the same which makes it really noisy.

 

The bullpen is bad, but the blown saves measure doesn't tell us that.

 

s*** offense = small leads easily blown.

[Hatchetman]

Sox pen is 28th in innings pitched, 25th in xFIP

[OmarComing25]

Sox pen is 28th in innings pitched, 25th in xFIP

I'm not sure how innings pitched is a relevant metric for how good a bullpen has been. All the 28th ranking shows is that the starters have gone deep into games for the most part.

[Hatchetman]

yet they still can't get the job done.

[kitekrazy]

Blown saves does not tell you anything about how good or bad a bullpen is. It's a pretty useless stat for evaluation. Blown saves can occur late in games for a variety of reasons, and it treats all the same which makes it really noisy.

 

The bullpen is bad, but the blown saves measure doesn't tell us that.

 

My eyes tell me they suck. f*** the stats.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Blown saves does not tell you anything about how good or bad a bullpen is. It's a pretty useless stat for evaluation. Blown saves can occur late in games for a variety of reasons, and it treats all the same which makes it really noisy.

 

The bullpen is bad, but the blown saves measure doesn't tell us that.

It tells me that we have lost a lot games we could have potentially won, but I also don't have the context of the actual conversion %, the amount of situations vs. other teams, etc. What does stick out is that by most advanced stats our bullpen is awful. 25th in xfip, etc. We have a really really porous pen and it is very evident, imo. We are a lot better team with an above average bullpen. We could say that about other areas, but this bullpen is awful.

[The Gooch]

I was real excited about the bullpen the first month too. A couple of injuries, the rapid decline of Matt Albers (along with Robin consistently putting him in important situations), and the trade of Duke and here we are

[Balta1701]

It tells me that we have lost a lot games we could have potentially won, but I also don't have the context of the actual conversion %, the amount of situations vs. other teams, etc. What does stick out is that by most advanced stats our bullpen is awful. 25th in xfip, etc. We have a really really porous pen and it is very evident, imo. We are a lot better team with an above average bullpen. We could say that about other areas, but this bullpen is awful.

But don't miss this part though...what are the White Sox missing from their bullpen? Putnam, Petricka, Duke (or other random LOOGY), maybe you count Webb also. They're missing some depth fine, Putnam can be an 8th inning guy sometime, but they're not missing Wade Davis. They're not missing their closer or their top setup guy from the start of the season.

 

Add in Petricka, Duke, Putnam, and they're perhaps closer to an average bullpen and that's a few wins over the course of the year, but that's not an "above average" bullpen. With unbelievable health, they were in the middle of the league last year in bullpen FIP and xFIP, and that was that crazy year where fangraphs thought the defense was so much worse than every other metric that I probably put them as closer to an average pen last year.

 

You want this to become an "above average" bullpen, they need to get those other guys back and add a Chapman level pitcher and then have no injuries next year. That's how far away they are from the standard you just set.

[Chisoxfn]

But don't miss this part though...what are the White Sox missing from their bullpen? Putnam, Petricka, Duke (or other random LOOGY), maybe you count Webb also. They're missing some depth fine, Putnam can be an 8th inning guy sometime, but they're not missing Wade Davis. They're not missing their closer or their top setup guy from the start of the season.

 

Add in Petricka, Duke, Putnam, and they're perhaps closer to an average bullpen and that's a few wins over the course of the year, but that's not an "above average" bullpen. With unbelievable health, they were in the middle of the league last year in bullpen FIP and xFIP, and that was that crazy year where fangraphs thought the defense was so much worse than every other metric that I probably put them as closer to an average pen last year.

 

You want this to become an "above average" bullpen, they need to get those other guys back and add a Chapman level pitcher and then have no injuries next year. That's how far away they are from the standard you just set.

Oh, I never said they have a good bullpen, I just said our bullpen is crap and probably would have been crap regardless of injuries. That said, pens can be a little fluky, but we run out a lot of garbage and none of the guys that are gone are all that great (Putnam is about the only guy I can maybe point at and even he had his ups and down's and Robin didn't have a ton of trust in him). Will be interesting to see what Burdi does when he comes up and what the Sox end up doing with Fullmer as well. Obviously we are going to see a bit of both of them, although it might not be until after Charlotte's post-season run.

[GreenSox]

A lot of that blown save stuff is due to the O not helping much. If the pen gives up a couple of runs over 4 or 5 innings, the save is blown; well it wouldn't have been blown with some help from the offense.

Statistically, they are a bit below average, which is probably about the reality of the talent level in the pen.

[greg775]

My eyes tell me they suck. f*** the stats.

You know what ... this is one of the best posts ever. I don't care about ANY stats right now. I really don't. I watch games and I'm saying this as fact: The White Sox bullpen is crap. Like krazy said, "They suck."

The eye test does matter re. this subject. Folks, our bullpen blows and it's a huge reason the Sox can't beat a Central Div. team not named Minnie (once in a while). That bullpen needs to be blown up again. It is beyond horrible.

[SI1020]

Blown saves does not tell you anything about how good or bad a bullpen is. It's a pretty useless stat for evaluation. Blown saves can occur late in games for a variety of reasons, and it treats all the same which makes it really noisy.

 

The bullpen is bad, but the blown saves measure doesn't tell us that.

Honestly in this day of age of stat deconstruction I don't know what stat or stats matter anymore. I look forward to the day when wins and losses no longer matter and titles are given based on Pythagorean wins or SRS because nothing real seems to carry weight. The bullpen is bad and blown saves helps us figure it all out. That and watching so many late inning nightmares. Another thing what is this deep love for FIP? You can go back years and find stat geeks who don't like FIP. To me the whole premise behind FIP is absurd. Some really good pitchers are going to come across not so good and others not so good are going to look better. It is a very selective and flawed stat.

[Hatchetman]

To me the whole premise behind FIP is absurd. Some really good pitchers are going to come across not so good and others not so good are going to look better. It is a very selective and flawed stat.

 

use whatever makes you happy

[Lip Man 1]

Honestly in this day of age of stat deconstruction I don't know what stat or stats matter anymore. I look forward to the day when wins and losses no longer matter and titles are given based on Pythagorean wins or SRS because nothing real seems to carry weight. The bullpen is bad and blown saves helps us figure it all out. That and watching so many late inning nightmares.

 

Agreed. Some folks go overboard with this stuff. Numbers can help tell you some things...but seeing with your own eyes can also tell you a lot.

 

This is a bad bullpen, it's bad because of the injuries, it's bad because the guys the Sox bring up from the minor leagues are bad, it's bad because Ventura and / or Cooper have misused it and it's bad because the guys who are supposed relaiable and good really aren't as good as some Sox fans make them out to be.

 

If JR is "going for it" again next year in addition to the gaping holes at catcher, DH, CF and the bench he better bring in another two or three quality guys for the pen.

 

Mark

 

[kitekrazy]

Honestly in this day of age of stat deconstruction I don't know what stat or stats matter anymore. I look forward to the day when wins and losses no longer matter and titles are given based on Pythagorean wins or SRS because nothing real seems to carry weight. The bullpen is bad and blown saves helps us figure it all out. That and watching so many late inning nightmares. Another thing what is this deep love for FIP? You can go back years and find stat geeks who don't like FIP. To me the whole premise behind FIP is absurd. Some really good pitchers are going to come across not so good and others not so good are going to look better. It is a very selective and flawed stat.

 

Post of the week!

[OmarComing25]

Honestly in this day of age of stat deconstruction I don't know what stat or stats matter anymore. I look forward to the day when wins and losses no longer matter and titles are given based on Pythagorean wins or SRS because nothing real seems to carry weight. The bullpen is bad and blown saves helps us figure it all out. That and watching so many late inning nightmares. Another thing what is this deep love for FIP? You can go back years and find stat geeks who don't like FIP. To me the whole premise behind FIP is absurd. Some really good pitchers are going to come across not so good and others not so good are going to look better. It is a very selective and flawed stat.

It has its flaws but it has its uses too. I don't think any "stat geek" would tell you to only look at FIP (or any single stat for that matter), but it's a useful part of the whole picture when evaluating a pitcher. ERA also makes some really good pitchers look bad and others look better than they are. Those flaws aren't unique with FIP.

Edited September 2, 2016 by OmarComing25

[kitekrazy]

Bullpens are the most inconsistent thing in baseball. It can be lights out one season, keep the same guys and it sucks the nest season. Sadly enough with this team stink spreads.

[southsider2k5]

The pen has been gutted. Half of it is hurt or otherwise gone. Jones and Robertson have been forced into more long outings, and have shown wear because of it. As a betting man I would say that one of the big fixes for next year is going to be Zach Burdi in some form, probably as a set up man early, potentially as the closer late. I think most of the pen fixes are already in the pipeline.