2017 Lineup

[thxfrthmmrs]

From a fWAR perspective, if we want to be a playoff team, we need at least 36 WAR's (~18 offense, 14 starting pitching and 4 bullpen, according to 2015 and 2016 numbers), . Here's how the potential returning players for 2017 could fare:

 

Offense:

C - Navaez/whoever the starter is 0.5 WAR

1B - TBD

2B - Saladino - 1.5 WAR

3B - Frazier - 2.5 WAR (if BABIP theory is true)

SS - Anderson - 3 WAR (projecting growth in year 2)

LF - Melky - 1.2 WAR

CF - TBD

RF - Eaton - 4.5 WAR

DH - Abreu - 2.5 WAR (time to move him DH)

 

Bench - 0.3 WAR

 

Total minus TBD - 16 WAR

 

Ideally we'd move Abreu to DH to hide his shortcomings defensively, however, I do not think the Sox would end up doing that, so whoever they bring in as DH and Abreu would combine to total of 2.5 WAR. We'd need a 2 WAR CF (Ideally 3-4 WAR, if the other players do not meet their projections) to make the lineup at least playoff caliber. So someone like Blackmon, Cespedes, or Inciarte (would make the OF defense much better) would be ideal.

 

Starting Pitchers

1. Sale - 5 WAR (easily 6+)

2. Quintana - 5 WAR

3. Rodon - 3.5 WAR (is 2017 his breakout year?)

4. Shields 0 WAR (could be much worse, please release him)

5. Gonzalez - 1.5 WAR

 

Total 14 WAR

 

Our 1-2 is top notch. Rodon is teasing us in second half again and could put it together next year. Gonzalez is better than expected and should hold his own as number 5. Shields killed us this year, we must release him (though I don't see it happening). If we could get a reliable #4 (~2-3 WAR), this is comfortably a playoff quality rotation. But I'm doubtful we could do anything to improve, and I do not think Fulmer/Burdi will be the answer in 2017.

 

Bullpen

 

2016 =3.2 WAR, could finish ~3.5. Need more pieces in 2017

 

But WAR does not factor in how many blown opportunities we had as a team. In a perfect world, we need a more consistent closer (however I think Robertson sticks around, and I do not want to see Jones closing). We definitely need another quality lefty, and another solid contributor. Pencilling in at the moment as Robertson, Jones, LHP FA signing, Jennings, Ynoa, FA Signing or Juan Minaya (I think he has potential)

 

In summary, we have the pieces, should be close to a 30 WAR team, but would need the following to be a contender in 2017:

 

- Another core player, preferably a high end CF

- A quality DH

- A quality lefty out of the pen

- Shields to not wet the bed every time he starts .

 

If Hanh/KW wants to go all in, we need to move Abreu to DH, both the eye test and advance stats tell us he hurts on the field more than he helps. We also need to move Robertson off the closer role and get ourselves a more consistent and reliable closer. To me these two are long shot but are must moves, otherwise we will hang around the WC for much of the year and end up missing by a few games.

Edited September 14, 2016 by 2005thxfrthmmrs

[caulfield12]

From a fWAR perspective, if we want to be a playoff team, we need at least 36 WAR's (~18 offense, 14 starting pitching and 4 bullpen, according to 2015 and 2016 numbers), . Here's how the potential returning players for 2017 could fare:

 

Offense:

C - Navaez/whoever the starter is 0.5 WAR

1B - TBD

2B - Saladino - 1.5 WAR

3B - Frazier - 2.5 WAR (if BABIP theory is true)

SS - Anderson - 3 WAR (projecting growth in year 2)

LF - Melky - 1.2 WAR

CF - TBD

RF - Eaton - 4.5 WAR

DH - Abreu - 2.5 WAR (time to move him DH)

 

Bench - 0.3 WAR

 

Total minus TBD - 16 WAR

 

Ideally we'd move Abreu to DH to hide his shortcomings defensively, however, I do not think the Sox would end up doing that, so whoever they bring in as DH and Abreu would combine to total of 2.5 WAR. We'd need a 2 WAR CF (Ideally 3-4 WAR, if the other players do not meet their projections) to make the lineup at least playoff caliber. So someone like Blackmon, Cespedes, or Inciarte (would make the OF defense much better) would be ideal.

 

Starting Pitchers

1. Sale - 5 WAR (easily 6+)

2. Quintana - 5 WAR

3. Rodon - 3.5 WAR (is 2017 his breakout year?)

4. Shields 0 WAR (could be much worse, please release him)

5. Gonzalez - 1.5 WAR

 

Total 14 WAR

 

Our 1-2 is top notch. Rodon is teasing us in second half again and could put it together next year. Gonzalez is better than expected and should hold his own as number 5. Shields killed us this year, we must release him (though I don't see it happening). If we could get a reliable #4 (~2-3 WAR), this is comfortably a playoff quality rotation. But I'm doubtful we could do anything to improve, and I do not think Fulmer/Burdi will be the answer in 2017.

 

Bullpen

 

2016 =3.2 WAR, could finish ~3.5. Need more pieces in 2017

 

But WAR does not factor in how many blown opportunities we had as a team. In a perfect world, we need a more consistent closer (however I think Robertson sticks around, and I do not want to see Jones closing). We definitely need another quality lefty, and another solid contributor. Pencilling in at the moment as Robertson, Jones, LHP FA signing, Jennings, Ynoa, FA Signing or Juan Minaya (I think he has potential)

 

In summary, we have the pieces, should be close to a 30 WAR team, but would need the following to be a contender in 2017:

 

- Another core player, preferably a high end CF

- A quality DH

- A quality lefty out of the pen

- Shields to not wet the bed every time he starts .

 

If Hanh/KW wants to go all in, we need to move Abreu to DH, both the eye test and advance stats tell us he hurts on the field more than he helps. We also need to move Robertson off the closer role and get ourselves a more consistent and reliable closer. To me these two are long shot but are must moves, otherwise we will hang around the WC for much of the year and end up missing by a few games.

 

A lot of people here are projecting Saladino at 2.5+, we'll just have to wait and see on that.

 

I don't think you'll see them going after Kenley J. or Chapman because they'll trade Robertson and move Burdi or Jones into that role to save money or possibly keep all three (definitely won't add another from outside)...of course, as mentioned above, any entire team can fray with one loose end in the bullpen. That 7th inning bridge guy destroyed the Sox (Albers Putnam Petricka), and did the same to the Royals (Hochevar injured, Soria ineffective).

 

How they fix Shields is beyond anyone at this point...and how long they can go with him sinking the ship early before they turn to Fulmer, if he hasn't already been traded.

 

Blackmon and Inciarte are 3-4 war players, so it's going to cost more than we can afford in prospects. Cespedes will either stay or get a cost prohibitive 3-4 year deal. Tilson will be the name we hear far too often. It's unfortunate, because both he and Avi will still be in the conversation and that will be depressing to suffer through all offseason.

 

We'll also hear how acquiring Gordon and Upton wouldn't have gotten the team near the playoffs either. So best to do nothing and hope for the best, right?

Edited September 14, 2016 by caulfield12

[oldsox]

A lot of people here are projecting Saladino at 2.5+, we'll just have to wait and see on that.

 

I don't think you'll see them going after Kenley J. or Chapman because they'll trade Robertson and move Burdi or Jones into that role to save money or possibly keep all three (definitely won't add another from outside)...of course, as mentioned above, any entire team can fray with one loose end in the bullpen. That 7th inning bridge guy destroyed the Sox (Albers Putnam Petricka), and did the same to the Royals (Hochevar injured, Soria ineffective).

 

How they fix Shields is beyond anyone at this point...and how long they can go with him sinking the ship early before they turn to Fulmer, if he hasn't already been traded.

 

Blackmon and Inciarte are 3-4 war players, so it's going to cost more than we can afford in prospects. Cespedes will either stay or get a cost prohibitive 3-4 year deal. Tilson will be the name we hear far too often. It's unfortunate, because both he and Avi will still be in the conversation and that will be depressing to suffer through all offseason.

 

We'll also hear how acquiring Gordon and Upton wouldn't have gotten the team near the playoffs either. So best to do nothing and hope for the best, right?

Which is true.

[Y2Jimmy0]

From a fWAR perspective, if we want to be a playoff team, we need at least 36 WAR's (~18 offense, 14 starting pitching and 4 bullpen, according to 2015 and 2016 numbers), . Here's how the potential returning players for 2017 could fare:

 

Offense:

C - Navaez/whoever the starter is 0.5 WAR

1B - TBD

2B - Saladino - 1.5 WAR

3B - Frazier - 2.5 WAR (if BABIP theory is true)

SS - Anderson - 3 WAR (projecting growth in year 2)

LF - Melky - 1.2 WAR

CF - TBD

RF - Eaton - 4.5 WAR

DH - Abreu - 2.5 WAR (time to move him DH)

 

Bench - 0.3 WAR

 

Total minus TBD - 16 WAR

 

Ideally we'd move Abreu to DH to hide his shortcomings defensively, however, I do not think the Sox would end up doing that, so whoever they bring in as DH and Abreu would combine to total of 2.5 WAR. We'd need a 2 WAR CF (Ideally 3-4 WAR, if the other players do not meet their projections) to make the lineup at least playoff caliber. So someone like Blackmon, Cespedes, or Inciarte (would make the OF defense much better) would be ideal.

 

Starting Pitchers

1. Sale - 5 WAR (easily 6+)

2. Quintana - 5 WAR

3. Rodon - 3.5 WAR (is 2017 his breakout year?)

4. Shields 0 WAR (could be much worse, please release him)

5. Gonzalez - 1.5 WAR

 

Total 14 WAR

 

Our 1-2 is top notch. Rodon is teasing us in second half again and could put it together next year. Gonzalez is better than expected and should hold his own as number 5. Shields killed us this year, we must release him (though I don't see it happening). If we could get a reliable #4 (~2-3 WAR), this is comfortably a playoff quality rotation. But I'm doubtful we could do anything to improve, and I do not think Fulmer/Burdi will be the answer in 2017.

 

Bullpen

 

2016 =3.2 WAR, could finish ~3.5. Need more pieces in 2017

 

But WAR does not factor in how many blown opportunities we had as a team. In a perfect world, we need a more consistent closer (however I think Robertson sticks around, and I do not want to see Jones closing). We definitely need another quality lefty, and another solid contributor. Pencilling in at the moment as Robertson, Jones, LHP FA signing, Jennings, Ynoa, FA Signing or Juan Minaya (I think he has potential)

 

In summary, we have the pieces, should be close to a 30 WAR team, but would need the following to be a contender in 2017:

 

- Another core player, preferably a high end CF

- A quality DH

- A quality lefty out of the pen

- Shields to not wet the bed every time he starts .

 

If Hanh/KW wants to go all in, we need to move Abreu to DH, both the eye test and advance stats tell us he hurts on the field more than he helps. We also need to move Robertson off the closer role and get ourselves a more consistent and reliable closer. To me these two are long shot but are must moves, otherwise we will hang around the WC for much of the year and end up missing by a few games.

 

I don't see any reasonable way in which they go for it again. It could be a typical White Sox offseason by signing (Jason Castro, Adam Lind, and Peter Bourjos) but does that really get you anywhere? They can't sign any free agents with a QO attached because they can't afford to give up 1st round picks. They also don't have the prospects (and can't afford to deal the excess it would take) to acquire a real difference maker in a trade. I've fought against it for a long time but the only logical way to go about this offseason is by trading Sale for a haul of prospects and then trading Frazier, Melky, and Robertson as well. Eaton, Q, and Abreu are a little trickier with the years of control though. I don't think they'll be good enough in the next 2 years to win with Chris Sale so this offseason with 3 years of control is probably the most opportune time to cash in that asset. I just don't see the adding route. Sale, Q, and Rodon have been great recently and this team still struggles far too often. I think a step back is necessary and I think it's coming.

[balfanman]

If Hanh/KW wants to go all in, we need to move Abreu to DH, both the eye test and advance stats tell us he hurts on the field more than he helps. We also need to move Robertson off the closer role and get ourselves a more consistent and reliable closer. To me these two are long shot but are must moves, otherwise we will hang around the WC for much of the year and end up missing by a few games.

 

It seems like through the years I've heard from various sources that defense is not really that big of a deal at first base, yet we always seem to be clamoring for a new first baseman because of defense ( Abreu's glove, Pauli's range, Frank's glove & arm, etc.). Personally, I've always valued a good defensive 1st baseman such as Kieth Hernandez, Mark Grace, etc. Even Konerko's ability to dig balls out of the dirt did wonders for this team ( especially Alexis' error totals ) and saved a lot of runs.

 

I've had enough of this theory that you can stick anyone at 1st base ( and left field too for that matter). I hope we can make Abrue a dh and get an above average 1st baseman in here.

[Hatchetman]

I'd be on board with that plan if everything fell into place.

[SCCWS]

Trade Sale and Melky Cabrera to BoSox for CF Benintendi, C Blake Swihart, SP Eduardo Rodriguez, 3B Rafael Devers, 1B Josh Ockimey and LHP Brian Johnson.

Trade Lawrie for a minor leaguer.

Trade Coats and Jennings for Danny Valencia.

Sign Josh Reddick 3 years 42 million

Sign Kelly Johnson 1 year 3 million

Sign Brett Cecil 3 years 14 million

Sign Eric O'Flaherty 1 year 3 million

 

1.) L - RF Eaton - locked down for years

2.) R - DH/1B Valencia - needed OBP/power punch at DH

3.) L - CF Benintendi - Cornerstone CF

4.) R - 1B Abreu

5.) L - LF Reddick - Buy low free agents op could be traded

6.) R - 3B Frazier - Trade in July assuming team falters

7.) R - SS Anderson - Corner stone SS

8.) S/L - C Swihart/Narvaez - Catcher of the future

9.) R/L - 2B Saladino/Johnson - Let Saladino show what he has with some LH power behind him in case.

 

Bench: C Narvaez, OF Tilson, INF Kelly Johnson, INF Sanchez

 

1.) Quintana

2.) Rodon

3.) Rodriguez

4.) Gonzalez

5.) Shields

 

CP Robertson

SU Jones

SU Cecil

MR O'Flaherty

MR Putnam

MR Petricka

MR Ynoa/Kahnle

 

Good post but I have a couple of thoughts:

 

1. I don't think Boston won't want Melky. But they might want Robertson.

2.You need more for Sale. Boston sent Swihart back to the minors to learn LF even though they really didn't have another good option at the time. Now he has been injured for several months and just had ankle surgery. Rodriquez is still iffy but I think Benintendi is the real deal. Instead I would swap out Vazquez for Swihart and offer Q instead of Sale. But as I have posted several times in other threads, I don't think Boston will trade their top prospects for starting pitching this offseason. I do think they will go for 2nd tier SP and bullpen arms

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I'll probably hate this in a couple weeks but my thinking is

 

1.) Trade Sale. He's gone IMO.

2.) Stack the lineup with future core members (Eaton, Abreu, Benintendi, Anderson, Swihart and maybe Saladino) as well as a trade candidates (Reddick, Frazier and Valencia). Offense and defense is improved.

3.) Use money on relievers for trade bait.

4.) Keep first round pick.

5.) Keep Robertson/Frazier to build up value a bit. I could see trading Frazier in the offseason but I'd let Robertson get back to being his old self before dumping his contract for nothing.

 

July comes around, if everything goes well, the team is in contention (rotation is a stretch). If things go south, you can trade Frazier/Robertson/Valencia/Reddick/Cecil/Gonzalez/Putnam and potentially Quintana.

 

Meanwhile core is Eaton, Q, Rodon, Abreu, Benintendi, Swihart, Anderson, Burdi, Jones and maybe Johnson/Fulmer/E-Rod with Collins, Devers, Adams, Call, Fisher, Hansen, Stephens on the way. If you're able to sell high on 3-4 of the guys in the paragraph above this one, you add to this. One more year of sucking in 2018 and you're looking to compete in 2019.

Is this what you'd like to see them do, or have you gotten hints from the Sox front office that they're planning on doing something like this during the offseason?

[chitownsportsfan]

It seems like through the years I've heard from various sources that defense is not really that big of a deal at first base, yet we always seem to be clamoring for a new first baseman because of defense ( Abreu's glove, Pauli's range, Frank's glove & arm, etc.). Personally, I've always valued a good defensive 1st baseman such as Kieth Hernandez, Mark Grace, etc. Even Konerko's ability to dig balls out of the dirt did wonders for this team ( especially Alexis' error totals ) and saved a lot of runs.

 

I've had enough of this theory that you can stick anyone at 1st base ( and left field too for that matter). I hope we can make Abrue a dh and get an above average 1st baseman in here.

 

I mean you kinda can stick "anyone" at 1B (Dae Ho Lee for example) but it will cost you some outs at some point. It's why Jose plays there himself. The only way it makes sense to move him to DH is if he's body is breaking down and the Sox have someone else on the roster that is better defensively at 1B and can hit enough to make it matter. Right now that guy isn't on the roster and Jose isn't missing enough games where it makes sense to DH him full time.

 

I too get tired of sloppy defending at 1B from Jose but it's far from the most pressing issue this off season. Getting some actual good outfielders and a catcher and a bullpen would be my priorities.

[ChiSox59]

Trade Sale and Melky Cabrera to BoSox for CF Benintendi, C Blake Swihart, SP Eduardo Rodriguez, 3B Rafael Devers, 1B Josh Ockimey and LHP Brian Johnson.

Trade Lawrie for a minor leaguer.

Trade Coats and Jennings for Danny Valencia.

Sign Josh Reddick 3 years 42 million

Sign Kelly Johnson 1 year 3 million

Sign Brett Cecil 3 years 14 million

Sign Eric O'Flaherty 1 year 3 million

 

1.) L - RF Eaton - locked down for years

2.) R - DH/1B Valencia - needed OBP/power punch at DH

3.) L - CF Benintendi - Cornerstone CF

4.) R - 1B Abreu

5.) L - LF Reddick - Buy low free agents op could be traded

6.) R - 3B Frazier - Trade in July assuming team falters

7.) R - SS Anderson - Corner stone SS

8.) S/L - C Swihart/Narvaez - Catcher of the future

9.) R/L - 2B Saladino/Johnson - Let Saladino show what he has with some LH power behind him in case.

 

Bench: C Narvaez, OF Tilson, INF Kelly Johnson, INF Sanchez

 

1.) Quintana

2.) Rodon

3.) Rodriguez

4.) Gonzalez

5.) Shields

 

CP Robertson

SU Jones

SU Cecil

MR O'Flaherty

MR Putnam

MR Petricka

MR Ynoa/Kahnle

 

Rabbit,

 

Nice post. Couple comments/questions:

 

-While the Sale package is alright, I'd definitely like to see Kopech added to it. I don't know how excited I'd be if thats what they got for Sale, I don't necessarily see that as a franchise altering return, which I think is what you need. But ultimately, who knows if anyone will pay that price. Don't see why Melky would need to be included in that trade. While he gets paid about what he's worth, I have to imagine he has some value. I wouldn't mind keeping him around for next year - if he has another year like this year, you'd probably be able to get something decent for him at the deadline.

 

-Valencia is going to non-tendered. There is even some talk of him being released this month. No point is giving up assets for him, especially Dan Jennings who has been a very nice piece out of the bullpen this year.

 

-You really think Reddick is only going to get 3 years and $42M? I'd be all aboard that train if that's all he's getting, but I find that very hard to believe.

 

-I have reservations about a C that has been moved away from the position anchoring that position for the next decade (assuming Collins ends up at 1B/DH). I'd take Swihart in a deal, but not as one of the main pieces.

 

 

All in all, this would make for an interesting off season. The Sox would still obviously be straddling rebuilding and retooling. While that team probably doesn't sniff the playoffs, its not a complete pipe dream that it'd be around .500 come July. At that point, you never know. I'd just like to see the Sox take a more definitive direction; keep Sale and add some meaningful players, or just tear it down and don't waste money on Reddick/mediocre relievers/Kelly Johnson.

 

[ChiSox59]

No hints other than the feel that Sale is gone.

 

 

You're probably right about Valencia. Haven't followed that closely.

 

I disagree that the Sox would be wasting money in this scenario. Buying players to potentially sell them is smart if you're not going to buy to go for it. I was probably light on what Reddick gets but I like him as a defensive player with a LH bat who doesn't cost us a pick. "Wasting money" on Johnson isn't really a thing. 3 mil is nothing in the MLB. I'd like to have some veteran pieces round out the roster so we could develop our depth in the minors. If the any minor league pushes for a spot, someone like Johnson could be moved or released if need be.

 

For sure, the comment was moreso directed at Reddick than the veteran filler pieces. I think it is a legitimate possibility that Reddick gets a 4 or 5 year deal close to $18M AAV. There are literally so few quality FA OF's that Reddick may be the one of the most sought after ones (Bautista, Desmond, Rasmus, Beltran, Trumbo are the cream of the crop), and then it falls off a cliff. And the majority of the guys just listed have major warts. Reddick is going to have serious market and get vastly overpaid, IMO.

Edited September 14, 2016 by ChiSox59

[Lillian]

Rabbit, do you really think that your suggested starting rotation would constitute a post season level staff?

 

1.) Quintana

2.) Rodon

3.) Rodriguez

4.) Gonzalez

5.) Shields

 

IMO, I see one #1, a potential #1, 2 bottom of the rotation starters and one complete disaster.

Where might you find a candidate better than Rodriguez? Surely Boston has a better trade chip than that, for Chris Sale?

 

Moreover, I would prefer to get a couple of Major League ready, really good players, rather than 5 or 6 prospects, in any deal involving Sale.

Given that contract, I would think that some team would be willing to give up a solid, middle of the rotation starter, and at least one top position player, along with maybe 1 or 2 good prospects. I just don't see the point in using someone of Sale's caliber, with that contract, for a bunch of young, unproven prospects.

There is both the risk that they will not develop their potential, and the time it takes to realize it.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Lillian

[SoxAce]

I prefer Q go to Boston and Sale to go to LAD with their SP prospects.

[YonderLaroche]

Trade Carson Fulmer , avisail Garcia for Jonathon villar, cash, ryan Braun

Sign Matt weiters 2/15m

Resign Austin jackson 1/1m

Sign Doug fister 2 yr/15 m

 

3b- Jonathon villar

Cf- adam Eaton

Dh- Jose Abreu

Lf- ryan Braun

1b - Todd Frazier

Rf- melky cabrera

2b- Brett Lawrie/saldiano

C Matt weiters/navarez

Ss Tim Anderson

 

Bench

Navarez

Saladano

Austin jackson

Matt Davidson or Justin morneau

Charlie tilson

 

Sale, quintana, rodon, fister, gonzalez

 

Closer - birdie, setup Robertson, Jones, Putnam , Jennings, ynoa, khanle, petricka, shields (dfa, very short leesh)

 

I think this team can contend without spending tons of cash or trading prospects. Dump the losers (albers, shields, shuck,

Turner for good), it has good speed, lots of power, decent defense except corner ofs, good pitching, a decent bench. Maybe sign some free agent minors depth so injuries don't cripple the team like 2016.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Trade Carson Fulmer , avisail Garcia for Jonathon villar, cash, ryan Braun

Sign Matt weiters 2/15m

Resign Austin jackson 1/1m

Sign Doug fister 2 yr/15 m

 

3b- Jonathon villar

Cf- adam Eaton

Dh- Jose Abreu

Lf- ryan Braun

1b - Todd Frazier

Rf- melky cabrera

2b- Brett Lawrie/saldiano

C Matt weiters/navarez

Ss Tim Anderson

 

Bench

Navarez

Saladano

Austin jackson

Matt Davidson or Justin morneau

Charlie tilson

 

Sale, quintana, rodon, fister, gonzalez

 

Closer - birdie, setup Robertson, Jones, Putnam , Jennings, ynoa, khanle, petricka, shields (dfa, very short leesh)

 

I think this team can contend without spending tons of cash or trading prospects. Dump the losers (albers, shields, shuck,

Turner for good), it has good speed, lots of power, decent defense except corner ofs, good pitching, a decent bench. Maybe sign some free agent minors depth so injuries don't cripple the team like 2016.

 

You're adding four more older players (or injury prone ones) and Villar is the only impact player.

 

That really just delays the inevitable rebuild by yet another year or more. Not to mention the undesirability of adding more PEDs cases to the team.

 

And why would the Brewers want Avi Garcia? He was made for AL play...if that.

Edited September 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[YonderLaroche]

No reason to rebuild unless they do another half as build around the core. They need more power, speed, and serious depth. All the minor injuries opened many black holes And they're still only 4 games under. Hell just James shields/Matt albers have officially lost 16 games, given up 116 runs in 136 ip combined. Absolutely horrible. Just having coats/shuck/Avi out there instead of jackson probably cost another 7-10 games. Robertson has 7 blown saves, Nate Jones has 9 blown saves. Danks was 0-4. That's 46 losses on 5 players.

Edited September 15, 2016 by b-Rye

[GreenSox]

1.) Quintana

2.) Rodon

3.) Rodriguez

4.) Gonzalez

5.) Shields

Rodon is not a #2 (a 3 or a 4), Gonzalez is a #5 and Shields shouldn't be anywhere near a major league rotation (and with a FO that was merely competent and lived in the real world, he wouldn't haven't been within 1500 miles of the White Sox rotation).

 

No reason to rebuild unless they do another half as build around the core. They need more power, speed, and serious depth. All the minor injuries opened many black holes And they're still only 4 games under. Hell just James shields/Matt albers have officially lost 16 games, given up 116 runs in 136 ip combined.

True, but this FO actually traded for James Shields, despite clear evidence that he had nothing left. They created their own demise. Hahn's eye for talent (especially veteran talent) is laughably bad, but at least he has a scout at his side who's pretty good at evaluating young players. Thus I support some sort of rebuild.

Edited September 15, 2016 by GreenSox

[Lemon_44]

I'm not sure Atlanta would do this trade because they are a mess right now and don't know if they have the "need" for Sale that some contenders do. Is this a fair trade? Sale to Atlanta for Freeman, Inciarte, and Tehran. That gives the Sox a young pitcher, a CF, and a left handed middle of the order bat.

Inciarte-CF

Eaton-RF

Abreu-1b/DH

Freeman-1b/DH

Cabrera-LF

Frazier-3B

Anderson-SS

Lawrie-2b

Catcher

 

Q

Tehran

Rodon

Gonzales

Fulmer/Shields

[dpd9189]

I'd put in a lineup if I didn't think they would blow it up but I still think that's the game plan. I also don't think it will be a half ass rebuild either, I expect the Sox big pieces to get dealt and for them to try and build a winning team that can sustain success.

 

The current plan of continually throwing big money at UFA's isn't working and hasn't worked for some time. Time to try something new.

[SCCWS]

Rodon is not a #2 (a 3 or a 4), Gonzalez is a #5 and Shields shouldn't be anywhere near a major league rotation (and with a FO that was merely competent and lived in the real world, he wouldn't haven't been within 1500 miles of the White Sox rotation).

 

 

True, but this FO actually traded for James Shields, despite clear evidence that he had nothing left. They created their own demise. Hahn's eye for talent (especially veteran talent) is laughably bad, but at least he has a scout at his side who's pretty good at evaluating young players. Thus I support some sort of rebuild.

 

I would rather go out and hire the Detroit scout who saw that ultimately trading Avi for Iglesias was the way to go.

 

[caulfield12]

I'm not sure Atlanta would do this trade because they are a mess right now and don't know if they have the "need" for Sale that some contenders do. Is this a fair trade? Sale to Atlanta for Freeman, Inciarte, and Tehran. That gives the Sox a young pitcher, a CF, and a left handed middle of the order bat.

Inciarte-CF

Eaton-RF

Abreu-1b/DH

Freeman-1b/DH

Cabrera-LF

Frazier-3B

Anderson-SS

Lawrie-2b

Catcher

 

Q

Tehran

Rodon

Gonzales

Fulmer/Shields

 

Moving into new stadium next year, those guys are all part of their core...Teheran would cost the position player equivalent of Rodon (obviously Anderson isn't going anywhere). Something like Ozuna from the Marlins.

 

[Dunt]

Trade Sale and Melky Cabrera to BoSox for CF Benintendi, C Blake Swihart, SP Eduardo Rodriguez, 3B Rafael Devers, 1B Josh Ockimey and LHP Brian Johnson.

Trade Lawrie for a minor leaguer.

Trade Coats and Jennings for Danny Valencia.

Sign Josh Reddick 3 years 42 million

Sign Kelly Johnson 1 year 3 million

Sign Brett Cecil 3 years 14 million

Sign Eric O'Flaherty 1 year 3 million

 

1.) L - RF Eaton - locked down for years

2.) R - DH/1B Valencia - needed OBP/power punch at DH

3.) L - CF Benintendi - Cornerstone CF

4.) R - 1B Abreu

5.) L - LF Reddick - Buy low free agents op could be traded

6.) R - 3B Frazier - Trade in July assuming team falters

7.) R - SS Anderson - Corner stone SS

8.) S/L - C Swihart/Narvaez - Catcher of the future

9.) R/L - 2B Saladino/Johnson - Let Saladino show what he has with some LH power behind him in case.

 

Bench: C Narvaez, OF Tilson, INF Kelly Johnson, INF Sanchez

 

1.) Quintana

2.) Rodon

3.) Rodriguez

4.) Gonzalez

5.) Shields

 

CP Robertson

SU Jones

SU Cecil

MR O'Flaherty

MR Putnam

MR Petricka

MR Ynoa/Kahnle

 

I honestly think this plan of action would get the Sox back into contention the fastest. That Sale package is the realistic type of package I imagine they are going to get for him and I'd be ok with it for the most part. Not in love with either Rodriguez or Swihart, but those are the type of pieces that make sense in a trade like this. If the Sox could get Travis Shaw instead of Swihart, I like the package a lot more. Benintendi and Devers as a centerpiece for the trade would excite me greatly though.

[SCCWS]

I honestly think this plan of action would get the Sox back into contention the fastest. That Sale package is the realistic type of package I imagine they are going to get for him and I'd be ok with it for the most part. Not in love with either Rodriguez or Swihart, but those are the type of pieces that make sense in a trade like this. If the Sox could get Travis Shaw instead of Swihart, I like the package a lot more. Benintendi and Devers as a centerpiece for the trade would excite me greatly though.

 

Wondering why you would want Shaw instead of Vazquez??? I do think both will be available. Shaw has played 3rd because Ramirez bumped him off 1st and Panda was hurt but he has been poor defensively. He would be a solid bat as a back-up to Abreu and back-up at DH but I think I would want better ( starter) if Sale is involved.

 

[Dunt]

Wondering why you would want Shaw instead of Vazquez??? I do think both will be available. Shaw has played 3rd because Ramirez bumped him off 1st and Panda was hurt but he has been poor defensively. He would be a solid bat as a back-up to Abreu and back-up at DH but I think I would want better ( starter) if Sale is involved.

 

Mostly because Vazquez is a defense only catcher that can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. Travis Shaw, on the other hand, can hit and play defense. On the season, he has 4 DRS, a 5.8 UZR, and a 19.7 UZR/150 at first and 7 DRS, a 2.2 UZR, and a UZR/150 at 3B. Couple that with a career .200 ISO, .460 SLG%, 8.0 BB%, and a wRC+ of 104, he seems like the choice of the 2. He's the type of MLB starter the Sox need more of.

 

An infield defense of Shaw, Saladino, Anderson, and Frazier could be rock solid next season. You then have versatility with being able to move Shaw back to 3rd if you trade Frazier or Collins comes up to DH and Abreu gets moved back to first.

 

And he bats lefthanded and is controlled through 2022.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Dunt

[GGajewski18]

I say blow it all up and go with a full rebuild.