2017 Lineup

[Lillian]

Why do so many of you dismiss Cabrera as a player to be replaced? Frankly, to me, he has been one of our most consistent hitters for the last year and 1/2.

Moreover, he provides the only left handed hitting, middle of the order hitter, on next year's roster. I've come to really like him and appreciate his contribution.

He's had a very good season, and should be considered part of the plan going into 2017, unless someone thinks that he could bring back an important piece, in a trade.

He will cost them $15 million, in the final year of his contract, and seems to be well worth that. Not being obligated to any financial commitment, beyond next year, also gives the front office some financial flexibility, going forward.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Lillian

[harkness99]

The offense has been putrid for a long time...

 

HOWEVER.. if we are going to try to be competitive next year.

 

Bull pen bull pen bull pen and more bullpen is what we need to go after.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Boston traded Felix Doubront, Andrew Miller ( who they got for Josh Reddick), Jose Iglesias, Will Middlebrooks, Daniel Nava as well as several veterans as part of a total roster rebuild. It looks like it worked.

 

Nobody is saying you trade the core 6. But you trade from strength and the only strength this team has is young starting pitching. I doubt you are able to trade Sale so he stays. Anderson is too valuable to trade. Abreu stays since his value to Sox may be more than what he returns in a trade. You shop Q, Rodon and even Fulmer to see what the market offers and trade one to fill some holes on the roster. See what Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jones and Eaton are worth. I think Lawrie and Shields are also not worth trading due to value. Maybe Robertson and Jones are in the same category

How were any of those guys in any way comparable to the talent of our core six? It's not even close.

[tray]

The fact is, other than your core players of Eaton, Abreu, Anderson.. the entire lineup pretty much needs to be addressed…

 

Not necessarily.

Saladino has made great improvement between what he hit in 2015 and what he has hit this season. I want hm back as our starting second basemen.

That leaves Lawrie or Frazier at third with the other one being a trade chip. Not a bad position to be in.

 

Omar Narvaez, just 24 years old, is hitting close to .300 and is playing decent defense. Pencil him in as the starting catcher next season.

 

So the Sox line-up needs a couple of guys, but that doesn't justify a tear down. Get a CF and LF and a DH.

That should not be that difficult considering the Sox already have some internal options and possible free agents to choose from.

 

The area that has killed the Sox this season and last season has been our bullpen. We lose too many games in the 7th-9th innings.

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by miracleon35th

[soxforlife05]

The fact is, other than your core players of Eaton, Abreu, Anderson.. the entire lineup pretty much needs to be addressed…

 

Not necessarily.

Saladino has made great improvement between what he hit in 2015 and what he has hit this season. I want hm back as our starting second basemen.

That leaves Lawrie or Frazier at third with the other one being a trade chip. Not a bad position to be in.

 

Omar Narvaez, just 24 years old, is hitting close to .300 and is playing decent defense. Pencil him in as the starting catcher next season.

 

So the Sox line-up needs a couple of guys, but that doesn't justify a tear down. Get a CF and LF and a DH.

That should not be that difficult considering the Sox already have some internal options and possible free agents to choose from.

 

Saladino is not an upgrade on Lawrie. More of a lateral move. And you're probably not getting major league ready talent back for Lawrie or Frazier so how exactly does that help us next year? Starting an unproven question mark at catcher is also a bad idea for a team that intends on contending. If this team actually plans on contending I don't want another year of relying on maybes and probably nots.

Edited September 11, 2016 by soxforlife05

[SCCWS]

How were any of those guys in any way comparable to the talent of our core six? It's not even close.

 

Miller is the best left-handed reliever in baseball. He just brought back to Yankees 4 prospects from Cleveland including 2 of their top 3. Iglesias is one of the best( some rate him #1) defensive shortstops in baseball as well as a career .275 hitter.

[Ducksnort]

Right now on mlb the show 16, my franchise white sox roster (2018) consists of Adam Eaton, Tim Anderson, Bryce Harper, Jose Abreu, Andrew McCutchen, Eric Hosmer, Adrian Beltre, Victor Martinez, Jose Altuve with a bench of Hunter Pence, Nick Hundley, Odubel Herrera and Juan Uribe. The Sox should try to duplicate this. I'll write to Kenny .

[TheTruth05]

Anybody here who wants to rebuild by trading our only good players (Sale,Q,Eaton,Abreu) is crazy. This front office will surely either A.completely botch the trades B.get very underwhelming returns due to high price tags. The last thing I want this FO doing is deciding the franchise future for the next decade.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Miller is the best left-handed reliever in baseball. He just brought back to Yankees 4 prospects from Cleveland including 2 of their top 3. Iglesias is one of the best( some rate him #1) defensive shortstops in baseball as well as a career .275 hitter.

So you are comparing a reliever and a very good defensive shortstop but below average hitter to Sale, Q, Rodon, Abreu, and Eaton? Come on man. At the time those guys were traded, Nava was probably the most accomplished at the MLB level and he was no where near as accomplished as Sale, Q, Eaton, and Abreu are right now. It's not even close.

[winninguglyin83]

Saladino is an upgrade over Lawrie because he is 10 cents on the dollar and a better fielder.

 

Play either Lawrie or Frazier at third. Trade the other.

 

Need 2 bats in these three spots -- LF, CF or DH.

 

I'm ready for Melky to go, go, go because if we're going to pick one corner outfielder to keep, it has to be Eaton.

 

The biggest improvement has to come in the pen. Spending money no guarantee there.

 

1b -- Abreu

2b -- Sally

SS -- Timmy

3b -- Fraz/Lawrie

C -- Navarez/newbie

LF -- Newbie

CF -- Newbie

RF -- Eaton

DH -- Morneau/Newbie

 

Bench -- Garcia, Coats, maybe Shuck or Newbie

 

1S -- Sale

2S -- Q

3S -- Rodon

4S -- Gonzalez

5S -- Newbie

 

CL -- DRob

RBP - -- Jones

LBP -- Jennings

 

 

The other four/five bullpen spots up for grabs -- Putnam, Burdi, Fulmer, Clark, newbies

 

 

bye bye -- Avila, Sanchez, Beck, Shields, Turner, Kahnle, Albers, Ynoa, AJax,

[greg775]

Saladino is not an upgrade on Lawrie. More of a lateral move. And you're probably not getting major league ready talent back for Lawrie or Frazier so how exactly does that help us next year? Starting an unproven question mark at catcher is also a bad idea for a team that intends on contending. If this team actually plans on contending I don't want another year of relying on maybes and probably nots.

Our lineup is far from good for next year. But please stop. Lawrie must go. Saladino must stay. Trade Lawrie along with several other guys like Avi, Melky.

[soxforlife05]

Our lineup is far from good for next year. But please stop. Lawrie must go. Saladino must stay. Trade Lawrie along with several other guys like Avi, Melky.

 

Like I said in the game thread. We will have no depth next season if Lawrie is traded. Saladino is not going anywhere starting or not. Melky has been our most consistent hitter all year and was our best run producer when the games actually mattered. How is that production getting replaced? I thought the consensus was the management is going for it next season.

 

Since you want to trade Melky I take it you are sending out Sale or Q as well. In that case I have no problem starting Saladino.

Edited September 11, 2016 by soxforlife05

[tray]

KC doesn't need Moustakis anymore. Maybe they would trade him to the Sox for their old buddy Shields plus Lawrie.

Then we could trade Frazier and have Moose at third.

Just one of those wild trade ideas scenarios that we tossed around while watching the game last night.

 

[caulfield12]

KC doesn't need Moustakis anymore. Maybe they would trade him to the Sox for their old buddy Shields plus Lawrie.

Then we could trade Frazier and have Moose at third.

Just one of those wild trade ideas scenarios that we tossed around while watching the game last night.

 

They can always rotate him at DH with Cuthbert, Cain, Gordon, Perez, etc.

 

That said, they have an option on Morales for $10 million.

 

And they might just end up moving Cuthbert to second...Lawrie is the only player they'd be interested in, for 2b.

[GreenSox]

Infield arguably set:

3B: Frazier- Set in stone

SS: Anderson- Set in stone

2B: Saladino- Gamer, start him

1B: Abreu- Set in stone

C: Narvaez- Earning it, walk rate incredible, see how year finishes

BN: Leury- Owned AAA this year, gives good speed and defense, has a little pop

BN: Lawrie- Plus plus bench piece

BN: Avila- Or someone similar, but I like the option for clutch LH ABs since he can walk

 

Outfield is where the work has to be done:

LF: Major Acquisition- Cespedes @ 30M

CF: Defense first guy- Maybe Tilson until Engel is ready

RF: Eaton set in stone

BN: May- Is his D great?

BN: Avi for FO pride

 

DH: Melky, who can spell OF corners

 

I think if the FO focuses on a major, punishing OF bat the Sox will be competitive. Not as worried about C and CF since it's too hard to find Trouts n Poseys.

Still a lot of holes

Can start with Frazier "set in stone". He's okay, nothing more. No real stud hitters except a good Abreu.

[Ducksnort]

Still a lot of holes

Can start with Frazier "set in stone". He's okay, nothing more. No real stud hitters except a good Abreu.

Yeah but you really don't need more than one "stud" hitter. Look at the 05 team. Konerko was the stud hitter on that team, Jermaine Dye would be next but idk if he is "stud" worthy. Who would be next? Crede? Iguchi? AJ? They weren't stud hitters either when they were in their prime. Thing is, need Abreu to be Konerko-esque in terms of hitting ALL YEAR, not just in August, September.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Scoots

[Balta1701]

Yeah but you really don't need more than one "stud" hitter. Look at the 05 team. Konerko was the stud hitter on that team, Jermaine Dye would be next but idk if he is "stud" worthy. Who would be next? Crede? Iguchi? AJ? They weren't stud hitters either when they were in their prime. Thing is, need Abreu to be Konerko-esque in terms of hitting ALL YEAR, not just in August, September.

Then you better be planning to also have the best pitching staff in the league, including a top flight rotation and top flight bullpen and strong defense. Because a "top 5" pitching staff wouldn't have put that team in the playoffs, it took a top 1 rotation.

 

In an era with higher offense, that team put up a 3.61 ERA. The best ERA in the AL this year is 3.80. There's no rotation in the AL right now dominating like that one did. Put a rotation out there that good and you're fine with an acceptable offense.

[winninguglyin83]

After watching this ineptitude against Ian Kennedy, trade all of them.

[greg775]

After watching this ineptitude against Ian Kennedy, trade all of them.

Denny Matthews the Royals' Hall of Fame announcer pointed out what we all know today in the broadcast. He said the White Sox have some decent ballplayers but something isn't working. He said they need to "shake things up" this offseason, maybe trade Sale.

He didn't mention getting rid of Robin, but the shake up needs to start the day after the season. Tell Robin he's gone, so he can get another job somewhere. Then start planning a series of trades.

[Dam8610]

Then you better be planning to also have the best pitching staff in the league, including a top flight rotation and top flight bullpen and strong defense. Because a "top 5" pitching staff wouldn't have put that team in the playoffs, it took a top 1 rotation.

 

In an era with higher offense, that team put up a 3.61 ERA. The best ERA in the AL this year is 3.80. There's no rotation in the AL right now dominating like that one did. Put a rotation out there that good and you're fine with an acceptable offense.

 

In 2016, the "5th starter", which I am defining as any starter that is not Sale, Quintana, Rodon, or Gonzalez, has pitched 219.1 innings and has a 6.93 ERA.

 

The 4 starters mentioned above have combined to pitch 635 innings with a combined 3.37 ERA.

 

They seem to be a lot closer than you think to having the type of pitching staff needed. Just add a semi competent 5th starter and a bullpen that isn't a gas can with matches (which really seems to be somewhat of a crap shoot from year to year), and you'll have that requisite dominant rotation, especially if Rodon takes a step forward and Gonzalez doesn't regress horribly.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/as-releas...-184720047.html

 

Your 2017 "limited budget" DH is....Billy Butler.

 

 

As to the last post, is there a willingness on the part of JR to eat another $22 million (making the Shields' acquisition look more foolhardy) to do the same things we've already wasted $25 million (Danks/Latos/Shields) on this season???

 

That's the question of the moment. Not whether they'll break out the checkbook for Cespedes, since there's a good chance he won't be available, and certainly a multi-year price tag COULD also scare the Sox away.

Edited September 12, 2016 by caulfield12

[Lillian]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/as-releas...-184720047.html

 

Your 2017 "limited budget" DH is....Billy Butler.

 

 

As to the last post, is there a willingness on the part of JR to eat another $22 million (making the Shields' acquisition look more foolhardy) to do the same things we've already wasted $25 million (Danks/Latos/Shields) on this season???

 

That's the question of the moment. Not whether they'll break out the checkbook for Cespedes, since there's a good chance he won't be available, and certainly a multi-year price tag COULD also scare the Sox away.

 

If the Sox were to acquire Billy Butler, to be their DH, I think that might be the last straw for me. How would Butler do anything to fix this pathetic offense? They need one really good hitter, with a high OBP, legitimate power, and preferably left handed. You insert that guy into the top 2/3 of our current line up and you have suddenly transformed an inept lineup, to a dangerous, effective run scoring offense. Billy Butler is not that guy:

 

Eaton

Anderson

Melky

Abreu

New DH (preferably Left Handed)

Frazier

 

That line up would be more than adequate, with the right DH. The problem is that no one seems to know who might fill that hole, or how to acquire him.

It would be ideal if there were a player in the last year of his contract, playing for a new lucrative deal in 2018. He might be affordable, available and highly motivated.

Then we could let him walk, with or without a qualifiying offer, at the end of the year.

 

[GreenSox]

Yeah but you really don't need more than one "stud" hitter. Look at the 05 team. Konerko was the stud hitter on that team, Jermaine Dye would be next but idk if he is "stud" worthy. Who would be next? Crede? Iguchi? AJ? They weren't stud hitters either when they were in their prime. Thing is, need Abreu to be Konerko-esque in terms of hitting ALL YEAR, not just in August, September.

Dye was studly that year. Also had above average hitting at a number of spots. Also team hit a ton of homers. No stiffs in the outfield trying to play D. Super starting and relief pitching. We had a lot of career pitching years come together.

[caulfield12]

Dye was studly that year. Also had above average hitting at a number of spots. Also team hit a ton of homers. No stiffs in the outfield trying to play D. Super starting and relief pitching. We had a lot of career pitching years come together.

 

Pods wasn't much of a defender in 2005...because of his arm, he probably graded out slightly below average but he at least had the speed to make up for some mistakes. Much better his second time around with the Sox.

[harfman77]

If the Sox were to acquire Billy Butler, to be their DH, I think that might be the last straw for me. How would Butler do anything to fix this pathetic offense? They need one really good hitter, with a high OBP, legitimate power, and preferably left handed. You insert that guy into the top 2/3 of our current line up and you have suddenly transformed an inept lineup, to a dangerous, effective run scoring offense. Billy Butler is not that guy:

 

Eaton

Anderson

Melky

Abreu

New DH (preferably Left Handed)

Frazier

 

That line up would be more than adequate, with the right DH. The problem is that no one seems to know who might fill that hole, or how to acquire him.

It would be ideal if there were a player in the last year of his contract, playing for a new lucrative deal in 2018. He might be affordable, available and highly motivated.

Then we could let him walk, with or without a qualifiying offer, at the end of the year.

 

They do not have the resources to get that hitter. He definitely does not exist in FA, and they don't have the pieces to acquire him in a trade. Your best hope is that Collins turns into that player.