Police keep killing black people

[southsider2k5]

If the choice is "more dead police officers" or "More people killed by police officers", we need to be smart enough to find a third option. Your statement could be misinterpreted the same way as "you are quite literally advocating for more people murdered by police officers".

 

Not when one side is using more hateful, inciteful, and provocative language to create the situation that exists. Honestly it is similar or worse than how Trump's description of immigrants was portrayed, yet barely anything is said. The whole, don't let the few define the whole thing? Nope.

[caulfield12]

Not when one side is using more hateful, inciteful, and provocative language to create the situation that exists. Honestly it is similar or worse than how Trump's description of immigrants was portrayed, yet barely anything is said. The whole, don't let the few define the whole thing? Nope.

 

Hateful/inciteful/provocative...how do you plan on objectively quantifying that as being worse? Worse than the anti-Muslim videos shared on twitter two weeks ago?

 

Isn’t more to be expected from the President of the United States than a random yahoo message board poster? What do you want to be covered that isn’t being covered? Wouldn’t the news media simply be considered more divisive for doing so?

 

Listen to C-Span someday. They take alternating calls from Democrats, Republicans and Independents on Washington Journal. A good number of the conservative callers are currently labeling c-span as fake news and arguing they’re only focused on bad news about the administration, and calling it fake news as well.

 

So where does real news exist anymore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Hateful/inciteful/provocative...how do you plan on objectively quantifying that as being worse? Worse than the anti-Muslim videos shared on twitter two weeks ago?

 

Isn’t more to be expected from the President of the United States than a random yahoo message board poster? What do you want to be covered that isn’t being covered? Wouldn’t the news media simply be considered more divisive for doing so?

 

Listen to C-Span someday. They take alternating calls from Democrats, Republicans and Independents on Washington Journal. A good number of the conservative callers are currently labeling c-span as fake news and arguing they’re only focused on bad news about the administration, and calling it fake news as well.

 

So where does real news exist anymore?

What in the hell...

[caulfield12]

What in the hell...

 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-01-2...iller-incidents

Author argued that radical, even violent rhetoric coming from the political right is more incendiary and aggressive than that coming from the left.

 

During the Obama years, it was even more one-sided than now. It was decidedly more violent and deadly.

 

The current President has the bully pulpit and a 40 million plus twitter audience. Fox News and conservative talk radio spend 24 hours per day going after the left with incendiary rhetoric/conspiracy theories and don’t even pretend to care about the truth half the time.

 

Not to mention their audience is a multiple many times greater than that of CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post and NY Times combined. It’s not even close.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Not when one side is using more hateful, inciteful, and provocative language to create the situation that exists. Honestly it is similar or worse than how Trump's description of immigrants was portrayed, yet barely anything is said. The whole, don't let the few define the whole thing? Nope.

"To create the situation"?

 

I dunno, I think the people getting shot sort of creates the situation.

[caulfield12]

http://abc7chicago.com/video-11-year-old-g...police/2778119/

 

Disturbing video in Grand Rapids of 11-year-old handcuffed at gunpoint "makes me physically nauseous," police chief says.

[Chicago White Sox]

https://www.google.com/amp/comicbook.com/ga...uty-swat-death/

 

Innocent Man Killed by Police After Call of Duty 'Swatting' Prank Goes Wrong

 

Matthew Hayes

12/29/2017

 

Two kids got in a fight over a Call of Duty match, and as a result, an innocent man is dead now. The players, under the handles "Miruhcle" and "Baperizer," were participating in a $1 wager match through competitive gaming platform UMG. They ended up getting into a heated argument, with each threatening to "swat" the other. They were on the same team. Miruhcle posted a fake address claiming that it was his own, and egged Baperizer on. Baperizer followed through and asked someone to swat the address. Here you can see Miruhcle (who has deleted his Twitter account) being super hard, giving out a fake address:

 

 

Police showed up to the Wichita, Kansas address after being told that a man inside had shot his father in the head, and taken the rest of his family hostage. This, of course, was untrue. The home that police raided belonged to someone completely unrelated to the game and disagreement, and there were no dead bodies or hostages inside. Police did not know this, however, and when the home-owner came to the door, one of the officers shot and killed him.

 

 

Swatting, for those of you who don't know, is an idiotic and irresponsible form of harassment used by man-babies who don't like losing at video games. When someone wants to go out of their way to harm or inconvenience their opponent, they'll hire someone to call in a fake threat to their home, triggering a SWAT response. Can't beat your opponent in Call of Duty? No need to throw a fit, just call the police and tell them that your opponent is violent, wielding weapons, and holding hostages. Nothing could possibly go wrong, right?

 

It's stupid enough when Call of Duty players swat each other, but posting a stranger's address to protect your own ass is beyond cowardly. We can't even imagine how crushed and confused the family of the victim must be right now, and we hope that everyone involved is brought to justice. More importantly, we hope the family of the victim manages to find peace and forgiveness.

 

This country is so f***ed up...

[bigruss]

When I first heard of swating I laughed at it's ridiculousness, not really believing it, but there have been a lot of stories around it now. This is by far the saddest, just so unbelievably stupid.

 

I also think it's time to revise how we accept these calls, unfortunately there needs to be screening through the pranks (and those pranks need to be punished severely).

[pettie4sox]

So criminal charges are definitely coming for the culprit. Life in prison hopefully.

[southsider2k5]

https://www.google.com/amp/comicbook.com/ga...uty-swat-death/

 

 

 

This country is so f***ed up...

 

Hopefully this bastard is charged with at least manslaughter or whatever the highest murder charge possible is.

[Balta1701]

So far, a week out, the police in this case have not identified the shooter, they have not released the body of the unarmed person that was shot, and they continue holding seized possessions from the family of the dead including computers and cell phones.

[BigSqwert]

This thread is scary to read. Wouldn't have taken much for this to go completely awry.

[caulfield12]

After his KKK remarks, Trump got on Marine One and spewed his actual beliefs while traveling.

 

"Privately, he kept trying to rationalize why someone would be a member of the KKK—that is, they might not actually believe what the KKK believed, and the KKK probably does not believe what it used to believe," Wolff wrote. "And, anyway, who really knows what the KKK believes now? In fact, he said, his own father was accused of being involved with the KKK—not true. (In fact, yes, true.)."

 

As Wolff notes, Trump’s father, Fred Trump, was arrested after a KKK riot in Queens, New York, in 1927.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-defended-k...-182219679.html

Edited January 5, 2018 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:04 PM, Rabbit said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5681097/Disturbing-footage-shows-West-Milwaukee-police-tase-mentally-ill-man-18-times-died.html

Just awful.  Don't watch if you get particularly upset by traumatic events. 

I just don’t get this one at all.  They get a call that someone is threading to hurt themselves so three cops go and break down this guy’s door and taser him 18 times while in the shower.  Like WTF.

[caulfield12]

Blame it on David Clarke and his epaulets!!!

Edited May 7, 2018 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Rabbit said:

Is there anything you can't dump your partisan politics? A tragedy of a mentally handicapped man getting tazed (18x) to death by the city's police as he showers naked and your first thought is to make a joke about the former Police Chief of the county because he sounds like a Republican?

Who polarized this country so much?

You're probably going to find 15-20 posts in a decade of Filibuster by me before Trump announced he was running for office.

Surprising the two state legislators who are most upset about this are African-American Democrats.  The only thing that's NOT shocking is that the Milwaukee County DA is actually a Democrat, John Chisholm.

Back to your normally bipartisan mediation of this forum...

 

Chisholm’s decision not to issue charges provoked outrage from state legislators Chris Larson and David Bowen.

“All indications show the two West Milwaukee police officers, who did the 100% opposite of helping our neighbor by invading his home and repeatedly attacking him in the shower, were found not to have contributed to his death and are each still on duty,” Larson said in a Facebook post.

“If this is the law of the land, the law needs to change.”

Bowen said he had spoken with Chisholm and disagreed with his conclusion that the officers’ conduct wasn’t criminal because they were trying to get Trammell medical attention.

“We need to be sure the D.A. recognizes it's a problem that it’s being seen as appropriate to tase someone 15 to 18 times,” Bowen said. “It doesn’t send the right message and we have to get focused on how do we do this a lot better.”

Chisholm concluded there was “no basis to conclusively link Mr. Trammell’s death to actions taken by police officers.”

To issue criminal charges, Chisholm “would have to demonstrate that the officers intentionally or negligently subjected Mr. Trammell to abuse under circumstances that were likely to cause bodily harm,” Chisholm wrote.

To prove negligence, the prosecutor would have to “demonstrate negligence to a high degree, consisting of conduct that the officers realized created a substantial and unreasonable risk of harm,” he wrote.

The prosecutor also would have to show that the officers’ conduct was not subject to a state law that prohibits criminal charges against police if their conduct is “in good faith and is an apparently authorized and reasonable fulfillment of any duties of a public office” or is “a reasonable accomplishment of a lawful arrest.”

Bowen said he planned to contact the U.S. attorney to discuss the case.

In the past, federal prosecutors have charged officers who were not charged or were found not guilty in state court.

Reached Monday, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office said he could neither confirm nor deny whether officials there were investigating Trammell’s death.

Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Online

Edited May 7, 2018 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

 

[StrangeSox]

Bucks' statement on Sterling Brown arrest

https://www.nba.com/bucks/news/bucks-organization-statement-sterling-brown

Quote

Bucks Organization Statement On Sterling Brown

Posted: May 23, 2018

The abuse and intimidation that Sterling experienced at the hands of Milwaukee Police was shameful and inexcusable. Sterling has our full support as he shares his story and takes action to provide accountability.

Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated case. It shouldn’t require an incident involving a professional athlete to draw attention to the fact that vulnerable people in our communities have experienced similar, and even worse, treatment. 

We are grateful for the service of many good police officers that courageously protect us, our fans and our city, but racial biases and abuses of power must not be ignored. 

There needs to be more accountability.  

The Milwaukee Police Department and local officials have acknowledged the challenges they are working to address, and we urge them to enact higher standards and more direct accountability. We all want to be able to trust each and every officer serving to protect us.   

Incidents like this remind us of the injustices that persist.  As an organization, we will support Sterling and build on our work with local leaders and organizations to foster safe neighborhoods and better our community.

What struck me, though maybe it really shouldn't at this point, is that there were at least half a dozen police in response to a simple parking violation. Contrast this to the NFL moving to appease Trump over some NFL players' silent protest of police abuse and Trump responding by threatening to deport US citizens for not standing for a song. Edited May 24, 2018 by StrangeSox

[Middle Buffalo]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:54 PM, StrangeSox said:

 

That video is crazy. I've defended cops in the past who have reacted poorly because the situation had elevated, and I could see how the officer might react poorly based on the adrenaline and uncertainties of what the citizen was doing. Not the case here at all. Cop was on a power trip.

Just give the guy a ticket and let him move on. Nope. Call for backups and have ten other officers show up and surround a guy who wasn't doing anything to be alarmed by.

[StrangeSox]

 

 

[knightni]

Recommending the Netflix documentary  "13th."

Some heavy stuff there about the history of black people, law enforcement, law and order, and prisons.

[Balta1701]

The county prosecutor who oversaw things in St. Louis including their cash bail system, and who gained fame (infamy?) for taking the Mike Brown case to a grand jury and then giving the grand jury a case that made sure the officer wouldn't be indicted, was voted out of office by a large margin last night.

[Jenksismyhero]

Surprised no one here is talking about the Jason Van Dyke trial. It just went to the jury. 

I wouldn't be totally shocked if there was an NG or hung jury. The prosecution made a couple of big mistakes, including putting Van Dyke's partner on the stand without knowing what he was going to say. He, predictably, corroborated what Van Dyke is claiming (that the perspective of the video isn't the perspective that he had that night). Not having the actual medical examiner that examined McDonald testify was also very odd and I think allowed the defense to favorably argue that the first or second shot killed McDonald and everything after that was Van Dyke acting as he was trained (to incapacitate the criminal completely).

My guess would be he gets an NG for 1st degree but is found guilty of 2nd degree as a compromise.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

Surprised no one here is talking about the Jason Van Dyke trial. It just went to the jury. 

I wouldn't be totally shocked if there was an NG or hung jury. The prosecution made a couple of big mistakes, including putting Van Dyke's partner on the stand without knowing what he was going to say. He, predictably, corroborated what Van Dyke is claiming (that the perspective of the video isn't the perspective that he had that night). Not having the actual medical examiner that examined McDonald testify was also very odd and I think allowed the defense to favorably argue that the first or second shot killed McDonald and everything after that was Van Dyke acting as he was trained (to incapacitate the criminal completely).

My guess would be he gets an NG for 1st degree but is found guilty of 2nd degree as a compromise.

I have said it for years, but the way the laws are written, 1st degree murder is impossible to prove.  Even 2nd is a stretch.  Basically all they have to do is establish that the officer had a reason to believe he needed to shoot, and he is innocent.  Plus he had a ton of back up from the department and other officers.  I would be shocked at any conviction.  The deck is just stacked against it.

[Jenksismyhero]

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have said it for years, but the way the laws are written, 1st degree murder is impossible to prove.  Even 2nd is a stretch.  Basically all they have to do is establish that the officer had a reason to believe he needed to shoot, and he is innocent.  Plus he had a ton of back up from the department and other officers.  I would be shocked at any conviction.  The deck is just stacked against it.

That's probably for the better in the grand scheme. Officers put themselves on the line and that's their duty. They can't retreat. So if they end up making a mistake and killing someone because of it, it probably shouldn't be criminal except in extreme cases.

Here though, the video is so damn compelling. When it's just witnesses testifying with photographs it's more difficult to decide that the officer is not being honest. Here you're seeing how the shooting played out and it's easier to put yourself in the shoes of the officer and decide if you would have acted in the same way.

I thought Van Dyke actually performed reasonably well on the stand. He answered questions, was humble, emotional, vulnerable, etc. I think they did a good job of arguing and providing evidence that the perspective of the video may be misleading. 

Still, that video. Just rolling up, hopping out of the car and then shooting within six seconds. Not a lot of time to reasonably decide if McDonald is a true danger.