caulfield12 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) Daryl Van Schouwen @CST_soxvan 4m4 minutes ago Abreu: "What we talked about yesterday [Royals have more desire than White Sox] was about me and I don't have anything to add. That's it." Sounds like the LaRoche, Sale and Eaton pr spin club polished that one to avoid further damage...feels like the kind of thing you would say in North Korea, Cuba or China as a hostage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) You know, probably doesn't matter. But it seemed like the Royals all came up together as a group through the minors, winning together. That's a philosophy that the Cards use, and Twins as well. I've had the same thought. The Cubs are another prime example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) Ironically, Eaton has a lot of it. And you always try to get rid of him in your posts. I don't rip him. Just don't hero worship him. He's a good player one of the Sox best. And that's the problem. Certainly not his fault that the Sox haven't gotten better talent around him. The Front office- that I rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) It's not like Jose isn't saying anything special.. this team has been losing for 3 years badly. Sure talent is an issue. But to say its just talent is not completely the truth either. Talent doesn't completely explain a 43-38 record out of division and a 29-41 record against the division. I feel bad for Abreu... he says something that is real and the pillow squad known has Ventura and the white sox have to say "no no no Jose" Look at K.C. We were ahead in like 8 of those games? and lost. Part of that is mental. Abreu is completely right in saying that. Our team has underachieved period. Edited September 21, 2016 by harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (Donaldo @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) I've had the same thought. The Cubs are another prime example of this. I can't think of anyone other than Soler and Bryant being together for an extended period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 The other day, I posted on this site on how Melky did not charge the ball on a single and this allowed the KC runner to score. Had he charged it, the runner would have been out by plenty since it was a close play at home anyways. A desire to win would have prevented the run from scoring. Holding players accountable for this type of lazy play would send a very strong message throughout the dugout and organization. I am only using this one example. I have seen guys not hustle on grounders, jogging to the next base, bad leadoffs, etc. and basically not enough aggressive play on both offense and defense. But just for the record, this is not on all players, just some but it costs because this sport is a team effort and the little things add up. As long as management from the top down is ok with this type of behavior, winning will never come no matter the talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 08:31 PM) I don't rip him. Just don't hero worship him. He's a good player one of the Sox best. And that's the problem. Certainly not his fault that the Sox haven't gotten better talent around him. The Front office- that I rip. He's one of the leagues best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (Dunt @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 07:56 AM) He's one of the leagues best. Defensively in right field, yes. Great to see the White Sox playing him much of September in center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Defensively in right field, yes. Great to see the White Sox playing him much of September in center. No, not just in right field. Overall. He is on pace for 6-6.2 WAR this season. That is well above All-Star level, borderline MVP caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 06:24 AM) The other day, I posted on this site on how Melky did not charge the ball on a single and this allowed the KC runner to score. Had he charged it, the runner would have been out by plenty since it was a close play at home anyways. A desire to win would have prevented the run from scoring. Holding players accountable for this type of lazy play would send a very strong message throughout the dugout and organization. I am only using this one example. I have seen guys not hustle on grounders, jogging to the next base, bad leadoffs, etc. and basically not enough aggressive play on both offense and defense. But just for the record, this is not on all players, just some but it costs because this sport is a team effort and the little things add up. As long as management from the top down is ok with this type of behavior, winning will never come no matter the talent. How do you not have a job as a MLB manager yet? You seem to have all the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Defensively in right field, yes. Great to see the White Sox playing him much of September in center. 12th in all of baseball. 7th in the AL. http://www.fangraphs.com/warleaders.aspx?s...m=all&type= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Defensively in right field, yes. Great to see the White Sox playing him much of September in center. Yea they should put Melky or Avi in Center, what are the White Sox thinking!? Its almost like all of the Center fielders on the team are injured and they have no choice but to put their fastest and most competent outfielder in center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Defensively in right field, yes. Great to see the White Sox playing him much of September in center. Willful ignorance is never a good look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:51 AM) How do you not have a job as a MLB manager yet? You seem to have all the answers. Your sarcasm is not appreciated. It seems all you wish to do is cut others down instead of making an intelligent response. I was trying to make a point that winning starts from the top and as long as players are not held accountable, how can a team expect to win if management does not care so much. If you are coaching little league team or an adult rec team, would you put players out there that don't hustle or play the right way? Of course not. So why shouldn't major leagues who get played a lot of money to play a kid's game be held accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 09:54 AM) Your sarcasm is not appreciated. It seems all you wish to do is cut others down instead of making an intelligent response. I was trying to make a point that winning starts from the top and as long as players are not held accountable, how can a team expect to win if management does not care so much. If you are coaching little league team or an adult rec team, would you put players out there that don't hustle or play the right way? Of course not. So why shouldn't major leagues who get played a lot of money to play a kid's game be held accountable? The vast majority of this team plays hard day in and day out. You have no idea whether management cares or not. To assume they do not is just asinine. What is your solution? To sit Melky Cabrera because of one ball you in all your expertise claim he didn't charge hard enough. Who plays then? Coats? Shuck? That is supposed to give us a better chance to win than Melky Cabrera? Come on. These are not 12 year old kids. They've been playing ball for 15+ years. The problem is not the effort. The problem is the talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH612 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) The vast majority of this team plays hard day in and day out. You have no idea whether management cares or not. To assume they do not is just asinine. What is your solution? To sit Melky Cabrera because of one ball you in all your expertise claim he didn't charge hard enough. Who plays then? Coats? Shuck? That is supposed to give us a better chance to win than Melky Cabrera? Come on. These are not 12 year old kids. They've been playing ball for 15+ years. The problem is not the effort. The problem is the talent. As I mentioned, that was just one example I have seen. Apparently, lack of hustle to 1st base on a routine grounder is ok with you. Good luck to whatever team you coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (Coach @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) As I mentioned, that was just one example I have seen. Apparently, lack of hustle to 1st base on a routine grounder is ok with you. Good luck to whatever team you coach. Is it okay? No, it's not. But overall it's not a problem on this team. Everybody's whipping boy Avi plays as hard as anybody. Eaton was told to dial it down so he didn't hurt himself. Rip on Robin and the staff all you want for an apparent lack of hustle, but the truth is it was a lot bigger problem in the Ozzie managed years with guys like Dye, Konerko and AJ. What I'm saying is that if you think the problem with this team is a lack of hustle you're delusional. The problem is talent, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 08:49 AM) No, not just in right field. Overall. He is on pace for 6-6.2 WAR this season. That is well above All-Star level, borderline MVP caliber. The reason his WAR is 5.7 instead of the usual solid 3.7 is because of his defense....as a right fielder. Edited September 21, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dunt @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 09:32 AM) Willful ignorance is never a good look. Neither is groupthink. Compare his historical RF defensive numbers to his CF and then get back to me about the concept of "Willful ignorance". Edited September 21, 2016 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) The reason his WAR is 5.7 instead of the usual solid 3.7 is because of his defense....as a right fielder. But this Whitesox braintrust diminishing its own players is certainly nothing new. He wasn't as good as his numbers. You told us that several times when saying he needed to be on a different team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I'm also not buying this idea that the players are dogging it. That completely contradicts what I see. The Sox are barely going to score 650 runs this season. THAT'S the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 03:24 PM) Neither is groupthink. Compare his historical RF defensive numbers to his CF and then get back to me about the concept of "Willful ignorance". I love how every time someone disagrees with you, you immediately call them sheep. The White Sox didn't want him in center, they were forced to put him there due to multiple injuries. Get back to all of us sheep when you actually pay attention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 The team could use more talent - it has some weak spots. But the "talent" excuse is just as much of a crutch as the "blame the coach" excuse. I don't think this team is a world series contender. But I also strongly believe that they have underachieved with the talent they do have. There is another element that is missing outside of the talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 QUOTE (harkness @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 03:46 PM) But the "talent" excuse is just as much of a crutch as the "blame the coach" excuse. Not really. Hitting talent scores runs. Replacing Ventura with a different manager will have minimal effect on offensive output. I do agree that they've (offensively) underachieved, though. Hopefully they'll address that this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Sep 21, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) Not really. Hitting talent scores runs. Replacing Ventura with a different manager will have minimal effect on offensive output. I do agree that they've (offensively) underachieved, though. Hopefully they'll address that this winter. 41-33 at home 31-46 on the road. We must have some more talent at home than on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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