The problem is simple: it's home runs and .OPS

[Greg Hibbard]

I was watching Ken Harrelson drool all over Kansas City the other night, as he is wont to do, and like stopped clocks that are always right twice a day, he actually stumbled upon an excellent point. He said that at some point the KC "grinderball" Royals had won because they had designed their team for their ballpark (just like the 2000-2005 Minnesota "grinderball" Twins that got a bunch of skinny, fast dudes that Harrelson ALSO LOVED to beat the ball into that astroturf as hard as possible to fly down the first base line in hopes of singles, had the staff turn on the AC in the ninth, and hope the lead held). That ballpark in Kansas City is NOT a park where you can hit home runs, which is why the stadium has been a House of Horrors for the Sox over the years. But this got me to thinking - the Sox don't actually hit homers.

 

And then, it got me to more thinking. It has been beaten into our skulls over the past umpteen years that US Cellular is a home run hitter's wet dream of a ballpark. And Guaranteed-to-Not-Call-It-Guaranteed-Rate Field in 2017 is still gonna be....you guessed it....a home run hitters ballpark. It used to be that we made sure we got a few dudes who could hit these things. Used to be. These days? No.

 

So my question is....when the hell did this team lose this mantra? And why did we stop doing this?

 

Because whenever the White Sox HAVE succeeded, it is because their lineup HIT HOME RUNS. A LOT OF HOME RUNS.

 

I think there is this pervasive myth that the successful teams from the last 15 years were built on pitching and a good mix of power, speed and bench.

 

I would say that it's much more simple than that. It's about home runs.

 

The 2008 Blackout Sox won their division largely because they led MLB in home runs in a home run hitting ballpark. That lineup hit 235 of them. If you divide 235 by 9, that's as if every single of the 9 regular slots of that lineup was responsible for 26 home runs. Every single slot hit a home run every six games. Can you imagine that with this team? I sure can't. Yes, it was nice to win that blackout game with some pitching.

 

But we got there because men hit balls out of the park with runners on base with one swing. The home run.

 

The 2005 World Series winners with 5th in homers in MLB. Yes, they had great pitching, and yes, they had the emergence of a genuine flash-in-the-pan phenom closer. But that lineup still hit 200 home runs. Again, this is as if every single slot was responsible for 22+ home runs. Oh and by the way, the best white sox hitter of all time, Frank Edward Thomas, was severly limited in the number of games he played due to injury.

 

Remember that 2000 team that won the division? There's a reason why Cal Eldred looked like a world beater until June and James Baldwin started 7-0 and it had NOTHING to do with their pitching skills. It had to do with the lineup hitting the cover off of the ball. Future $100,000,000 man Carlos Lee hit SEVENTH in that lineup. 216 home runs for that team.

 

This current team? Does not hit home runs. They are 23rd in homers. If pace holds, they will hit approximately 165 of them total. That's atrocious considering our stadium, considering the number of homers our opponents hit against us, and considering the history of this team.

 

Does it get better next year? Not if we sport this lineup again.

 

Because:

 

1) Tim Anderson, at first glance, seems like a great little player. A little-known rookie with no expectations hitting .279 with a bit a pop and some wheels, the future seems bright.

However, like many, many other players in this lineup - the looks are deceiving. Because:

a) He has a .279 average and a .300 OBP. This is a worse OBP than Todd Frazier, who hits roughly 60 points worse than Anderson.

b) He has a 10 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio. That's an absurdly bad statistic.

c) He has a .702 OPS.

d) He does not hit home runs.

e) He does not hit home runs.

f) HE DOES NOT HIT HOME RUNS.

 

2) Melky Cabrera and Adam Eaton are good players - who do not hit nearly enough home runs. Can this team acquire an outfielder who can have an OPS north of .800? Apparently not! Note: I am not complaining about these players. However, they are symptomatic of the White Sox building a team that has great stats for the ballpark they do not play in - and many of the wrong strengths for the ballpark that they do. It is wonderful that Eaton has ostensibly transformed into a gold glove defender. It is commendable that he gets on base at a nice little clip. However, The third best home run hitter on this team CANNOT have less than 15 home runs for a season, so if these guys are NOT going to hit home runs, we need another Beefcake slugger to pick up the slack. Normally, this would be a designated hitter, but the White Sox have also decided to have a year long joke with the fans that they now play in the National League and their Designated Hitter should actually hit like a pitcher, which is why Avisail Garcia cannot maintain an OPS north of SEVEN HUNDRED and you get people like JB Shuck and Jerry Sands laughing all the way to the occasional start. I don't even know that those guys should be called AAAA players.

 

3) Brett Lawrie and Tyler Saladino are nice little players - who do not hit enough home runs. Again, if your outfield cannot hit homers, the rest of our infield besides Abreu and Frazier better. Abreu and Frazier only come up so many times in a game, and without power protection why wouldn't teams just pitch around them?

 

4) Our catchers cannot do apparently anything at a major league level, and I don't know that there's a remedy for this.

 

Our best offensive player, Jose Abreu, is ranked 43rd in MLB in OPS. The next best offensive player, Adam Eaton, is like 86th. Yeah, 86 for 86 this offense, I guess.

 

There's a reason why James "Big Game" Shields has NINE QUALITY STARTS as a member of the White Sox and is only 3-3 in those 9 games.

There's a reason why the bullpen comes up so many times in the 6th, 7th, 8th inning protecting small leads that we have no hope of retaking if we lose them (and we do with the likes of Cat Albers holding so many games in his fat little hands)

There's a reason why mediocre starters have no chance to recover if they get touched for say 4 runs in 6 innings.

There's a reason why Jose Quintana has "bad luck" and can't win games.

 

WE CANNOT HIT HOME RUNS.

Fix the home runs, fix the OPS.

 

We need to remedy this, stat.

 

How the hell has this organization lost this simple fact?

[Dick Allen]

I think the White Sox have had one decent team since they opened their current home that didn't hit a lot of home runs. 1992 I think.

 

One other thing I noticed is their OF positioning. The White Sox play Dyson almost in the exact same spots KC plays Avi. Perhaps one reason for some KC specials.

[Black_Jack29]

(1) Anderson is a rookie and plays a position where defense comes before slugging. I don't see a problem with him, other than the fact that he shouldn't be hitting second.

 

(2) Eaton and Melky's bats have been pluses this season. Both have plenty of extra-base hits.

 

(3) Agreed here but, again, these are middle infielders. Most middle infielders don't hit like Robbie Alomar.

 

(4) Catchers generally don't hit well at all but, even then, the Sox need to improve here. Trading away Navarro was a nice first step.

 

The one guy who doesn't hit enough homers and who absolutely needs to is Avi. DH and RF are power positions, and his .386 SLG isn't going to cut it.

 

[Greg Hibbard]

(3) Agreed here but, again, these are middle infielders. Most middle infielders don't hit like Robbie Alomar.

 

Most middle infielders from those aforementioned teams:

 

2000 Jose Valentin - 25 HR, .835 OPS

2000 Ray Durham - 17 HR, .810 OPS

2005 Tadahito Iguchi - 15 HR, .780 OPS

2008 Alexei Ramirez - 21 HR .792 OPS

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Most middle infielders from those aforementioned teams:

 

2000 Jose Valentin - 25 HR, .835 OPS

2000 Ray Durham - 17 HR, .810 OPS

2005 Tadahito Iguchi - 15 HR, .780 OPS

2008 Alexei Ramirez - 21 HR .792 OPS

 

It is tough to pull from the steroid era, but I think Tim Anderson will put up solid power numbers eventually. He has a super quick bat and hits a lot of line drives. I don't think he will be a big power guy, but something in the 15-20 homers, plus some solid doubles and triples power.

[Lip Man 1]

I was watching Ken Harrelson drool all over Kansas City the other night, as he is wont to do, and like stopped clocks that are always right twice a day, he actually stumbled upon an excellent point. He said that at some point the KC "grinderball" Royals had won because they had designed their team for their ballpark (just like the 2000-2005 Minnesota "grinderball" Twins that got a bunch of skinny, fast dudes that Harrelson ALSO LOVED to beat the ball into that astroturf as hard as possible to fly down the first base line in hopes of singles, had the staff turn on the AC in the ninth, and hope the lead held). That ballpark in Kansas City is NOT a park where you can hit home runs, which is why the stadium has been a House of Horrors for the Sox over the years. But this got me to thinking - the Sox don't actually hit homers.

 

And then, it got me to more thinking. It has been beaten into our skulls over the past umpteen years that US Cellular is a home run hitter's wet dream of a ballpark. And Guaranteed-to-Not-Call-It-Guaranteed-Rate Field in 2017 is still gonna be....you guessed it....a home run hitters ballpark. It used to be that we made sure we got a few dudes who could hit these things. Used to be. These days? No.

 

So my question is....when the hell did this team lose this mantra? And why did we stop doing this?

 

Because whenever the White Sox HAVE succeeded, it is because their lineup HIT HOME RUNS. A LOT OF HOME RUNS.

 

I think there is this pervasive myth that the successful teams from the last 15 years were built on pitching and a good mix of power, speed and bench.

 

I would say that it's much more simple than that. It's about home runs.

 

The 2008 Blackout Sox won their division largely because they led MLB in home runs in a home run hitting ballpark. That lineup hit 235 of them. If you divide 235 by 9, that's as if every single of the 9 regular slots of that lineup was responsible for 26 home runs. Every single slot hit a home run every six games. Can you imagine that with this team? I sure can't. Yes, it was nice to win that blackout game with some pitching.

 

But we got there because men hit balls out of the park with runners on base with one swing. The home run.

 

The 2005 World Series winners with 5th in homers in MLB. Yes, they had great pitching, and yes, they had the emergence of a genuine flash-in-the-pan phenom closer. But that lineup still hit 200 home runs. Again, this is as if every single slot was responsible for 22+ home runs. Oh and by the way, the best white sox hitter of all time, Frank Edward Thomas, was severly limited in the number of games he played due to injury.

 

Remember that 2000 team that won the division? There's a reason why Cal Eldred looked like a world beater until June and James Baldwin started 7-0 and it had NOTHING to do with their pitching skills. It had to do with the lineup hitting the cover off of the ball. Future $100,000,000 man Carlos Lee hit SEVENTH in that lineup. 216 home runs for that team.

 

This current team? Does not hit home runs. They are 23rd in homers. If pace holds, they will hit approximately 165 of them total. That's atrocious considering our stadium, considering the number of homers our opponents hit against us, and considering the history of this team.

 

Does it get better next year? Not if we sport this lineup again.

 

Because:

 

1) Tim Anderson, at first glance, seems like a great little player. A little-known rookie with no expectations hitting .279 with a bit a pop and some wheels, the future seems bright.

However, like many, many other players in this lineup - the looks are deceiving. Because:

a) He has a .279 average and a .300 OBP. This is a worse OBP than Todd Frazier, who hits roughly 60 points worse than Anderson.

b) He has a 10 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio. That's an absurdly bad statistic.

c) He has a .702 OPS.

d) He does not hit home runs.

e) He does not hit home runs.

f) HE DOES NOT HIT HOME RUNS.

 

2) Melky Cabrera and Adam Eaton are good players - who do not hit nearly enough home runs. Can this team acquire an outfielder who can have an OPS north of .800? Apparently not! Note: I am not complaining about these players. However, they are symptomatic of the White Sox building a team that has great stats for the ballpark they do not play in - and many of the wrong strengths for the ballpark that they do. It is wonderful that Eaton has ostensibly transformed into a gold glove defender. It is commendable that he gets on base at a nice little clip. However, The third best home run hitter on this team CANNOT have less than 15 home runs for a season, so if these guys are NOT going to hit home runs, we need another Beefcake slugger to pick up the slack. Normally, this would be a designated hitter, but the White Sox have also decided to have a year long joke with the fans that they now play in the National League and their Designated Hitter should actually hit like a pitcher, which is why Avisail Garcia cannot maintain an OPS north of SEVEN HUNDRED and you get people like JB Shuck and Jerry Sands laughing all the way to the occasional start. I don't even know that those guys should be called AAAA players.

 

3) Brett Lawrie and Tyler Saladino are nice little players - who do not hit enough home runs. Again, if your outfield cannot hit homers, the rest of our infield besides Abreu and Frazier better. Abreu and Frazier only come up so many times in a game, and without power protection why wouldn't teams just pitch around them?

 

4) Our catchers cannot do apparently anything at a major league level, and I don't know that there's a remedy for this.

 

Our best offensive player, Jose Abreu, is ranked 43rd in MLB in OPS. The next best offensive player, Adam Eaton, is like 86th. Yeah, 86 for 86 this offense, I guess.

 

There's a reason why James "Big Game" Shields has NINE QUALITY STARTS as a member of the White Sox and is only 3-3 in those 9 games.

There's a reason why the bullpen comes up so many times in the 6th, 7th, 8th inning protecting small leads that we have no hope of retaking if we lose them (and we do with the likes of Cat Albers holding so many games in his fat little hands)

There's a reason why mediocre starters have no chance to recover if they get touched for say 4 runs in 6 innings.

There's a reason why Jose Quintana has "bad luck" and can't win games.

 

WE CANNOT HIT HOME RUNS.

Fix the home runs, fix the OPS.

 

We need to remedy this, stat.

 

How the hell has this organization lost this simple fact?

 

I think your comments are certainly a part of the problem but not all of it. Remember the Sox have also had many years since the start of the new century where they hit a lot of home runs but also went into prolonged slumps and losing streaks because of the "home run or nothing" approach.

 

To me the solution can be summed up in one word...balance.

 

A team that can beat you by stealing a base, by dropping down a bunt with a man on third, by getting enough on a pitch to bloop it into short right field or by hitting a three run home run.

 

The Sox haven't had that balance since the 2005 season. It's very difficult to do.

 

Mark

Edited September 22, 2016 by Lip Man 1

[Greg Hibbard]

It is tough to pull from the steroid era, but I think Tim Anderson will put up solid power numbers eventually. He has a super quick bat and hits a lot of line drives. I don't think he will be a big power guy, but something in the 15-20 homers, plus some solid doubles and triples power.

 

In 2000, MLB teams average 190 HR per team

In 2016, so far they are averaging 177 HR per team through 152 games played. Extrapolating this out to 162 games would be 188 HR per team.

 

[Black_Jack29]

Most middle infielders from those aforementioned teams:

 

2000 Jose Valentin - 25 HR, .835 OPS

2000 Ray Durham - 17 HR, .810 OPS

2005 Tadahito Iguchi - 15 HR, .780 OPS

2008 Alexei Ramirez - 21 HR .792 OPS

 

You do a nice job of cherry-picking career high stats there, but the reality is that Alexei Ramirez was more typically a 15 HR, .740 OPS hitter. Iguchi had some power, but was basically a ~100 OPS+ hitter during his career with the Sox. Very average.

 

It's true that Valentin and Durham had better power than average at their respective positions (especially Valentin). It'd be nice if the Sox farm system could develop another Ray Durham, but it hasn't. That said, I should point out that Lawrie slugged .413 this season. Extrapolated over the course of a full season, that'd put him on par with Ray Durham power-wise, but with fewer walks.

 

If you think that the Sox need more HR power (and you wouldn't be wrong about that), the way to address it is through RF and DH. That's where the real power deficiency has been over the past few seasons.

 

[Greg Hibbard]

You do a nice job of cherry-picking career high stats there, but the reality is that Alexei Ramirez was more typically a 15 HR, .740 OPS hitter. Iguchi had some power, but was basically a ~100 OPS+ hitter during his career with the Sox. Very average.

 

It's true that Valentin and Durham had better power than average at their respective positions (especially Valentin). It'd be nice if the Sox farm system could develop another Ray Durham, but it hasn't. That said, I should point out that Lawrie slugged .413 this season. Extrapolated over the course of a full season, that'd put him on par with Ray Durham power-wise, but with fewer walks.

 

If you think that the Sox need more HR power (and you wouldn't be wrong about that), the way to address it is through RF and DH. That's where the real power deficiency has been over the past few seasons.

 

I'm cherry picking the seasons in which this team made the playoffs to highlight the reasons WHY they made the playoffs. Let me cherry pick another stat for you: the four worst white sox teams, record-wise, since 2000 have something in common - they all didn't really hit too many home runs.

 

YEAR     HR     WINS
2007     190     72
2013     148     63
2015     136     76
2016     155     72

 

I'm not saying that this team needs home runs from every position to thrive, but in a home run hitter's ballpark, it's obvious to me that a big home run hitting team (and yes, career years from some guys offensively) correlate to winning the division, whereas low home run totals correlate very strongly with this organization's very worst recent seasons.

[southsider2k5]

In 2000, MLB teams average 190 HR per team

In 2016, so far they are averaging 177 HR per team through 152 games played. Extrapolating this out to 162 games would be 188 HR per team.

 

Let me put it this way. The 2000 season you quoted for Valentin he carried an .835 OPS, which put an OPS+ of 107 out there. Jose Abreu is carrying a .836 right now, which is good for a 129 OPS+. There is a very large difference in offensive output between those two years.

[Chisoxfn]

I think your comments are certainly a part of the problem but not all of it. Remember the Sox have also had many years since the start of the new century where they hit a lot of home runs but also went into prolonged slumps and losing streaks because of the "home run or nothing" approach.

 

To me the solution can be summed up in one word...balance.

 

A team that can beat you by stealing a base, by dropping down a bunt with a man on third, by getting enough on a pitch to bloop it into short right field or by hitting a three run home run.

 

The Sox haven't had that balance since the 2005 season. It's very difficult to do.

 

Mark

Those years the team didn't win, they didn't win because we had one of the worst strings of 5th starting carousels that I can ever remember (and in general, relatively lousy pitching). Offense was streaky at times, but the bigger theme was we had 5th starters who didn't win for what seemed like 2 years (because they stunk...not because we didn't generate runs) and when you had a pretty much guaranteed probability of losing every 5th game, the club was in a tough spot to overcome that.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I'm cherry picking the seasons in which this team made the playoffs to highlight the reasons WHY they made the playoffs. Let me cherry pick another stat for you: the four worst white sox teams, record-wise, since 2000 have something in common - they all didn't really hit too many home runs.

 

The 2005 White Sox did not make the playoffs because of their offense. That's just ridiculous. They made the playoffs because they had the best pitching staff in baseball with career years from several pitchers.

 

The 2005 team had a .262/.322/.425 slash line, 476 extra base hits and scored 741 runs.

 

The 2016 team has a .257/.318/.407 slash line and is on pace for 471 extra base hits and 679 runs.

 

The 2016 team actually has a higher OPS+ at 99 versus 2005's 95.

 

I'm not saying the 2016 team has a good offense by any means but the one run every three games more that the 2005 team scored than the 2016 was not the reason they have that trophy. That offense as a whole was nothing to write home about.

[The Mighty Mite]

Living in Florida I watch a lot of Rays games, over the off season the front office decided to go for a offense based on the Home Run, they picked up some mediocre boppers like Morrison and Dickerson and a big surprise, Brad Miller who has 30 homers. Evan Longoria has over 30. What has that got them, 23 games under .500 , they have now hit 210 homers but have scored only 3 more runs than the Sox. They are in a tough division but the AL Central this year isn't exactly chopped liver.

The big problem as usual for the Sox is low on base pct with way too many Ks. I've never seen a team swing at so many bad pitches as our guys did this year. What makes a good hitter is a good concept of the strike zone and the ability to read pitches, our guys are lacking in those departments.

[southsider2k5]

Those years the team didn't win, they didn't win because we had one of the worst strings of 5th starting carousels that I can ever remember (and in general, relatively lousy pitching). Offense was streaky at times, but the bigger theme was we had 5th starters who didn't win for what seemed like 2 years (because they stunk...not because we didn't generate runs) and when you had a pretty much guaranteed probability of losing every 5th game, the club was in a tough spot to overcome that.

 

Its Dejavu all over again.

[Chisoxfn]

Its Dejavu all over again.

Well, this year our 5th starter sucks, but so does the offense and defense. We are still a really bad team outside of a top notch front of the rotation.

[Dick Allen]

Homers are up this season. I think the ball is wound a little tighter. I knew something was up in spring training.

[bmags]

I think the remarkable thing has been our inability to get plus offense out of our DH. It's funny to hear things like "he's only a dh, dime a dozen" and then think about how we have been unable to find one for years (2012 excluded)

[Black_Jack29]

I'm cherry picking the seasons in which this team made the playoffs to highlight the reasons WHY they made the playoffs.

 

Or perhaps they made the playoffs because they hit more HRs and because their rotation and bullpen were above average? What about all of those years when the Sox hit plenty of homers but their pitching was mediocre (1996, 1998, 2002, 2004)?

 

Let me cherry pick another stat for you: the four worst white sox teams, record-wise, since 2000 have something in common - they all didn't really hit too many home runs.

 

YEAR     HR     WINS
2007     190     72
2013     148     63
2015     136     76
2016     155     72

 

I'm not saying that this team needs home runs from every position to thrive, but in a home run hitter's ballpark, it's obvious to me that a big home run hitting team (and yes, career years from some guys offensively) correlate to winning the division, whereas low home run totals correlate very strongly with this organization's very worst recent seasons.

 

What you're basically saying is that the Sox do well when they hit a lot of homers and they also happen to rank in the top of half of the AL in pitching. In other words, the Sox tend to not make the playoffs unless they score more runs than average (HRs are a large part of that) and they pitch better than average. Well, yeah, that's true for just about any team, regardless of their ballpark.

 

The only point on which you and I seem to disagree which position players don't hit enough HRs. In the case of Anderson, it's too early to say that. In the case of Lawrie, he's Ray Durham with a .300 OBP. And while I agree that the slugging from our catchers has been below average, that's not a position where power is easy to come by. Not every team has a Buster Posey or Salvi Perez.

 

[Dick Allen]

I think your comments are certainly a part of the problem but not all of it. Remember the Sox have also had many years since the start of the new century where they hit a lot of home runs but also went into prolonged slumps and losing streaks because of the "home run or nothing" approach.

 

To me the solution can be summed up in one word...balance.

 

A team that can beat you by stealing a base, by dropping down a bunt with a man on third, by getting enough on a pitch to bloop it into short right field or by hitting a three run home run.

 

The Sox haven't had that balance since the 2005 season. It's very difficult to do.

 

Mark

The 2005 team, up until that point, scored the second fewest runs per game than any other White Sox team since moving across the street. They were based on home runs. Hit over 200 of them. A lock down bullpen and a nice rotation does make any offensive fault look like it really isn't there. But that offense was no better than the rest. In fact quite worse in some cases. They scored over 230 fewer runs than the 2000 White Sox.

[Greg Hibbard]

The only point on which you and I seem to disagree which position players don't hit enough HRs. In the case of Anderson, it's too early to say that. In the case of Lawrie, he's Ray Durham with a .300 OBP. And while I agree that the slugging from our catchers has been below average, that's not a position where power is easy to come by. Not every team has a Buster Posey or Salvi Perez.

 

My entire point is that if you're going to have Adam Eaton and Melky Cabrera in your outfield accounting for less home runs combined than a Jose Valentin or a Joe Crede of years would typically get on their own, and if Tim Anderson is in your infield with Tyler Saladino, and you have a BLACK HOLE at catcher..... beyond the 65 homers you can count on with Abreu and Frazier, WHERE ARE YOUR HOME RUNS COMING FROM?

[Hawkfan]

Do you think we can get Hawk Harrelson to Join soxtalk after he retires so we can still receive his tutelage?

[Lip Man 1]

Those years the team didn't win, they didn't win because we had one of the worst strings of 5th starting carousels that I can ever remember (and in general, relatively lousy pitching). Offense was streaky at times, but the bigger theme was we had 5th starters who didn't win for what seemed like 2 years (because they stunk...not because we didn't generate runs) and when you had a pretty much guaranteed probability of losing every 5th game, the club was in a tough spot to overcome that.

 

There is truth in that comment as well...see 2003 and 2004 respectively in addition don't forget about 1996.

 

I guess the point is like I said in my last sentence getting a good balance is very hard to do.

 

Mark

[SCCWS]

My entire point is that if you're going to have Adam Eaton and Melky Cabrera in your outfield accounting for less home runs combined than a Jose Valentin or a Joe Crede of years would typically get on their own, and if Tim Anderson is in your infield with Tyler Saladino, and you have a BLACK HOLE at catcher..... beyond the 65 homers you can count on with Abreu and Frazier, WHERE ARE YOUR HOME RUNS COMING FROM?

 

This year in the AL, RBI's not HR's is the telling statistic. The Top 3 in the AL are the 3 division leaders. The two wildcard favorites Balt and Toronto are 4th and 6th.

In HR, Cleveland is 10th.

[knightni]

It's simple: We don't kill the bats, man.

[southsider2k5]

The one thing that was really obvious from who they targeted in this last draft is that they are looking for guys who get on base. My guess is that means they aren't looking for as much of the power tools as they had been. They also seem to have been targeting more of those kind of guys when you look at guys like Gordon and Fowler that they targeted in free agency.